Why Aren't You a Fixed Wing Pilot?

[Nearly Retired]

There are certain "types" of people who become helicopter pilots...just like there are certain "types" of people who become cops. Typical helicopter pilots might find fixed-wing flying boring. And it is true, there are times during a fixed-wing flight when there's not a whole lot to do.

 

I'm pretty sure I have ADD - - it just hadn't been invented yet when I was a kid. For instance, I cannot...and I mean CANNOT read the front page of a newspaper. I jump from one story to another, never reading one all the way through. Impossible, even when I try. It's probably why I'm so good at flying helicopters: There's always something to do and my ability to divide my attention among many things at a time makes me well-suited for these wacky things. In an airplane I never sit still for long. Even when I'm sitting back and eating a sandwich (or getting up to go pee), I'm always checking stuff, looking around and thinking about what's coming next...even if "next" is some time down the road at the top of the descent.

 

Land an airplane on a short, narrow, wet runway on a day when the wind is howling straight across it and you will never again say that fixed-wing flying is boring.

[Spike]

Generally speaking, there aren't any short cuts.

 

I've known people who tried to shortcut the process...the classic example in fixed wing is the three hundred hour wonder who jumps into a CRJ flying for Mesa...and then has to quit later to go get PIC time. He's a 2,000 hour pilot with no pilot in command experience...and can't get a job in a Cessna, despite having flown in the airlines for several years. I've seen people have to take leaves of absence or quit to go back to instructing, if they ever want a hope of being able to upgrade.

 

Get the experience needed, then work into a job. Those who do find ways to short cut the process one day find themselves in a place where they run out of ability, skills, ideas, and experience at the same time, and it's a dangerous moment.

 

I was on the ramp at Jeffco (colorado) during the fire season years ago, when approached by a retired airline pilot. He was a corporate pilot, former military. He told me that flying tankers looked like fun. He said he might want to do it for a hobby. I pointed out that some of us did it for a career...we didn't consider it a hobby. He told me about his twenty six thousand hours, and asked how long it would take to upgrade. I told him to plan on about eight to twelve years. He was shocked. He may have had twenty six thousand hours, but on day one, he would be a one hour fire pilot. He didn't absorb that bit of information very well. Trying to shortcut that process would make him a dead twenty six thousand hour pilot.

 

I flew back country work that lead to fire patrols, and eventually to air attack, single engine and then multi engine. I finally got a chance to move to a heavy tanker company after about ten years of trying to get my foot in the door, and they let me in because I was a mechanic; I got hired onto the shop floor as a mechanic and line inspector, then began flying mechanics and parts around in light twins and singles. I qualified in each of the heavy tankers, and when a slot came up, I moved into the right seat of a tanker. Later, I moved to single engine air tankers; I was able to do that because I had a background in ag aviation, having started spraying crops as a teen many moons ago.

 

In between some of those assignments, which spanned a number of different companies, I also flew corporate, back country, forestry, tours, SAR, photography, cargo, ambulance and medical, towed gliders, flew skydivers, turned a lot of wrenches, and a host of other things...never working less than two jobs at a time. Like all things, it's a matter of perspective; how much do you want to do what you want to do?

 

In your experience, have you witnessed any age discrimination? That is, qualified guys not getting hired due to their age, like 60-ish?

[Spike]

I'm pretty sure I have ADD

 

I once read an article on a study that was conducted on pilots and ADD (sorry, no reference). Most had some level of ADD. The interesting thing was, the better pilots suffered from a higher level of ADD.

 

From what I've seen, most helo pilots are "control freaks". The problem arises when they can't keep in check when they're not flying. If you've done this for a while, you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Nearly Retired]

Spike:

From what I've seen, most helo pilots are "control freaks". The problem arises when they can't keep in check when they're not flying. If you've done this for a while, you know what I'm talking about.

 

Oh, I do. Good Lord, I do!

 

And anyone who knows me will tell you so.

[SBuzzkill]

It's that multitask thing. I can't even watch TV unless I'm eating, browsing the internet, and talking to my wife. It transfers over pretty well to the cockpit.

[avbug]

And he went, "So? It's a 172 not a 747."

 

I fly both. I take them both as seriously. Sounds like you do, too, and that's a good thing.

 

The 172 will kill you just as dead, albeit perhaps just a little more slowly.

 

I've found in that past that especially after doing other types of flying in Lears and Sabres and so forth that coming back to a light airplane is always a pleasure. I always approach it carefully, however. I've seen too many who don't think twice, and end up expecting performance the aircraft won't have, flying approaches way too fast, or landing the airplane at 150' because that's the sight picture they're used to in a bigger aircraft.

 

I switch aircraft regularly with various jobs and assignments, and it's always a reminder to stop and think, and respect the machine.

[Spike]

In your experience, have you witnessed any age discrimination? That is, qualified guys not getting hired due to their age, like 60-ish?

 

I guess so.......

[avbug]

In your experience, have you witnessed any age discrimination? That is, qualified guys not getting hired due to their age, like 60-ish?

 

Yes, definitely.

 

I've witnessed a number of pilots who probably should retire due to age, but I've met a number who are quite the opposite...that experience level shouldn't be dismissed. Older pilots have a great deal to offer, or rather, experienced pilots do. Experience and judgement gained through wise experience can't be bought, and there's no substitute.

 

It's often not recognized, however, as it's far cheaper to pay someone peanuts who will do as they're told, not ask questions, and move on before accumulating any longevity, interest, or history with the company.

[akscott60]

I do both. They each have their strong points and weak points.

[Spike]

Yes, definitely.

 

I've witnessed a number of pilots who probably should retire due to age, but I've met a number who are quite the opposite...that experience level shouldn't be dismissed. Older pilots have a great deal to offer, or rather, experienced pilots do. Experience and judgement gained through wise experience can't be bought, and there's no substitute.

 

It's often not recognized, however, as it's far cheaper to pay someone peanuts who will do as they're told, not ask questions, and move on before accumulating any longevity, interest, or history with the company.

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

Sadly, I'm attempting to plan for the end of my future. I'd like to do other types of flying but I have kids I'll need to put though collage. My current gig pays well with great benefits. By the time I can pull the pin and retire, I'd be 60-ish. I fear, at 60, I may have a hard time getting another gig especially one that allows me to upgrade into a medium or an overseas contact job. I guess the realization this possibly could be my last flying job is setting in. Funny, we spend an enormous amount of time telling these kids how to get in and stay in, without ever discussing how it will someday end and, the importance of planning for it.

 

[avbug]

60 certainly doesn't need to be the end of flying, or flying for a living. In more senior adult years, however, a lot of us aren't as excited about going as far to find or keep work as we once were, and as we get older we become less mobile, maybe even a little less flexible.

 

I worked with a gentleman this summer who was in his sixties, though he probably wasn't a great example.

 

It's always easier to find a job if you have a job, and if you're working and able to make contacts, you're in a good position to keep an eye and ear open for what comes next . You can cultivate opportunities as you go. Sometimes even pick up something on the side, just to get your foot in the door. Maybe a corporate gig, or maybe you want to go do forestry...find someone that's got CWN contracts for the USFS and do a little side work for them...just something here or there. Maybe get some side work as a check airman for a 135 outfit, or something along those lines.

 

Those contacts may be what helps you move into the next job. I do think that those who barrel along full tilt until 60 and then start looking will be having a much harder time than those who keep looking.

 

My philosophy has long been to continuously search the job market. Most of my jobs have come when I was already working another job...and found something better. Even when I start a new job, I keep looking for work. One never knows when a company will close, a position will be eliminated or downsized, or any number of other things common to aviation will occur that require a change of employment. I keep applying to jobs, too...it's far better to have something available than not, and to me it's a little l like the monkey swinging through the forest...just making sure the next vine is always there and handy, if needed.

 

There's something psychologically beneficial to having another job in one's hip pocket. The ability to have a backup plan gives a lot of personal leverage when faced with a tough decision, such as an employer pushing one to do something one ought not. If one makes it a habit, then it gives on the option of saying "I quit," which is a lot of power in an otherwise difficult world. Even just having the option can be a real comfort, sometimes.

 

If you're talking about switching from rotor to fixed wing, then definitely you'll need to be current and experienced. Having some flying on both sides of the fence is a plus even if it's just civil air patrol or something along those lines. Pick up some glider flying. Instruct. Some see instruction as an entry-level activity that's to be put behind them as quickly as possible. I see it as a lifetime activity. It's always an option.

 

If you're going to do the fixed wing thing, then it's generally got to be multi engine work, if it's going to amount to much (the single engine world doesn't pay well as a rule, and the few jobs that do are very few)...and instrument work at that.

 

Whatever you decide to do at the age 60 mark, it's best to approach it having prepared long before, and to do it ready to go to work. A number of jobs have cutoff points, but many don't. Personally I like seeing some grey hair in a pilot. Like most, I got mine the hard way (kids...). It usually follows on the heels of experience, and there are still employers out there to whom that has value.

 

Yes, I've seen discrimination, but I've seen the same thing with women and young people. When I was younger, in high school and shortly thereafter, people would ask to see my driver license when I showed up as their pilot. I got a lot of age discrimination then, too, and I faced it for a number of years. Discrimination can be found all over, but it's not everywhere, and not every employer is handicapped by such views.

[nightsta1ker]

60 certainly doesn't need to be the end of flying, or flying for a living. In more senior adult years, however, a lot of us aren't as excited about going as far to find or keep work as we once were, and as we get older we become less mobile, maybe even a little less flexible.

 

I worked with a gentleman this summer who was in his sixties, though he probably wasn't a great example.

 

It's always easier to find a job if you have a job, and if you're working and able to make contacts, you're in a good position to keep an eye and ear open for what comes next . You can cultivate opportunities as you go. Sometimes even pick up something on the side, just to get your foot in the door. Maybe a corporate gig, or maybe you want to go do forestry...find someone that's got CWN contracts for the USFS and do a little side work for them...just something here or there. Maybe get some side work as a check airman for a 135 outfit, or something along those lines.

 

Those contacts may be what helps you move into the next job. I do think that those who barrel along full tilt until 60 and then start looking will be having a much harder time than those who keep looking.

 

My philosophy has long been to continuously search the job market. Most of my jobs have come when I was already working another job...and found something better. Even when I start a new job, I keep looking for work. One never knows when a company will close, a position will be eliminated or downsized, or any number of other things common to aviation will occur that require a change of employment. I keep applying to jobs, too...it's far better to have something available than not, and to me it's a little l like the monkey swinging through the forest...just making sure the next vine is always there and handy, if needed.

 

There's something psychologically beneficial to having another job in one's hip pocket. The ability to have a backup plan gives a lot of personal leverage when faced with a tough decision, such as an employer pushing one to do something one ought not. If one makes it a habit, then it gives on the option of saying "I quit," which is a lot of power in an otherwise difficult world. Even just having the option can be a real comfort, sometimes.

 

If you're talking about switching from rotor to fixed wing, then definitely you'll need to be current and experienced. Having some flying on both sides of the fence is a plus even if it's just civil air patrol or something along those lines. Pick up some glider flying. Instruct. Some see instruction as an entry-level activity that's to be put behind them as quickly as possible. I see it as a lifetime activity. It's always an option.

 

If you're going to do the fixed wing thing, then it's generally got to be multi engine work, if it's going to amount to much (the single engine world doesn't pay well as a rule, and the few jobs that do are very few)...and instrument work at that.

 

Whatever you decide to do at the age 60 mark, it's best to approach it having prepared long before, and to do it ready to go to work. A number of jobs have cutoff points, but many don't. Personally I like seeing some grey hair in a pilot. Like most, I got mine the hard way (kids...). It usually follows on the heels of experience, and there are still employers out there to whom that has value.

 

Yes, I've seen discrimination, but I've seen the same thing with women and young people. When I was younger, in high school and shortly thereafter, people would ask to see my driver license when I showed up as their pilot. I got a lot of age discrimination then, too, and I faced it for a number of years. Discrimination can be found all over, but it's not everywhere, and not every employer is handicapped by such views.

 

Great post.

[Spike]

60 certainly doesn't need to be the end of flying, or flying for a living.

 

Thanks again for the perspective.

 

While working for a Gov agency has its benefits, it also lures one into a state of stagnation with regards to career enhancement. Prior to this, I was in that place of multiple employers with contingency operators in the waiting. However, the "at will" employment becomes a scary reality with the addition of kids. Thus the pull to the security of a Gov gig. And, I have absolutely no regrets with that decision.

 

My experience level is not a concern, and I have no doubts about my ability to do those things you mentioned (other than corporate, because I've BTDT and while I had a good time, it's not something I'd do again). The concern is over that number society calls "age" and how current operators are taking into account "that" single number.

 

Furthermore, I too feel the same about instruction which I definitely will consider an option.

 

When the time comes, the one aspect I'll have is supplemental (retirement) income. Not to say I wouldn't demand a fair wage but rather, bring experience into what is considered a low paid position to begin with, like instructing, or a SIC spot in a heavy.

 

In any case, again, thanks for the insight.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Spike

[Nomad110]

Airplanes scare the hell out of me....

[Flying Pig]

^ huh?