JETTSET99 Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Very interesting winds 10 mph straight and level so Mast Bumping is unlikey. ????? http://www.theledger...ar-Apollo-Beach Edited December 1, 2012 by JETTSET99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Very interesting winds 10 mph straight and level so Mast Bumping is unlikey. Another -4 Delam????? http://www.theledger...ar-Apollo-Beach Did I miss it? I didn't see anything about the main blade separating. Corrosion along the bond joint is always something to watch for....in a corrosive ocean salt spray environment it's even more important! You're right, 10 knots along the coast is not real conducive to turbulence and mast bumping, unless there are some other manuevers involved...like a pushover. Sorry to hear of this crash and the loss of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copter doctor Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 One of the news stories reported a witness saying the blade appeared to have seperated. In VR news section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETTSET99 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Yes eye witness saw "White Blade come off" it could of been Rotorway but they reported a R22??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearly Retired Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Hard to tell what it is... http://www.baynews9...._crash_rep.html Might be an R-22, might be a Rotorway. Either way it looks like the rotor took the top of the cabin off when it left. Please be careful of saying things like, "Straight and level flight, so no mast bumping." We have no way of knowing what the pilot was doing in the cockpit or what lead up to the accident. I agree that "normally" a helicopter flying along straight and level would not get into mast bumping, but there is never anything "normal" about helicopter flying. A flinch in the wrong direction if a bird suddenly appears in your peripheral vision can have catastrophic consequences. Hopefully we can learn more about what caused this tragic accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OK UK Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Hi All, I'm new to this forum. I recently took up flying and have flown (once) the R22 that went down in Apollo Beach. N2626N out of Tampa Bay Aviation in Clearwater where I live. My brother comes over regular from the UK to fly and has probably about 10-15 hours in this very craft. He is coming next week specifically for 10 hours of booked time he had in N2626N. This tragedy really hits home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaaron16 Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Hmm, first pic looks like an inverted R-22. Very tragic accident. As an engineer, I'm surprised no one has come up with an inexpensive and lightweight data logger suitable for R22s and other very small aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETTSET99 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 The Federal Aviation Administration tells 10 News the aircraft is a Robinson R22 helicopter.A witness tells 10 News he saw the helicopter's main two-bladed rotor literally spin off of the aircraft, at which point it immediately plummeted straight down into the water below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OK UK Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 The pilot was a certified helicopter flight instructor and a pilot with American Airlines for 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotortramp Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 The report said it took off from Tampa Bay Aviation in Clearwater, and having been there a few times, they have 1 pure white Robinson R22. Whatever the root cause of the accident, it may have separated a portion of the fuselage or tail boom, looking liking a blade. I've never seen any Rotorways in that area, but it very well could have been someone visiting the airport. Clearwater less than 5 miles from the actual water, so corrosion is definitely a possibility, which is somewhat unsettling if determined to be the cause. Interested to see what an official report will say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETTSET99 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Pilot was High time also been reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 This is horrible. I can't even imagine the feeling when you know your main rotor is gone and you begin an uncontrolled freefall knowing recovery is impossible, no matter the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaaron16 Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 ^ Not to sound macabre, but if I were in a situation like that, I would hope in the process of the rotor separating, it enters the cabin and takes me out just so I could go quickly without ever realizing what was happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM5 Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Someone please help me understand how this happens if not due to low-g mast bumping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Someone please help me understand how this happens if not due to low-g mast bumping? I'm not saying this was the cause of this accident in Florida, but main rotor separation can occur with an improperly installed (or not installed) mast nut, such as this fatal accident in Canada: http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2000/a00q0046/a00q0046.asp Basically, the main rotor hub assembly was dismantled for maintenance (B206) and replaced, but minus the mast nut. Pilot took helicopter up to test a different system, the rotor stayed together, tragically, long enough for runup, hover, and takeoff, and then separated from the helicopter. Never doubt the importance of a thorough preflight, especially after any kind of maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETTSET99 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Doubt the Jesus Nut wasnt thier its part of preflight and is clearly visible,this scares me the pilot was also a heli instructor chances of mast bumping causing this is null. Ward spent more than 20 years as a commercial captain for American Airlines, his family said, flying internationally and across the country. A graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, Ward was also a licensed helicopter pilot instructor, they said.Still, on Friday afternoon, his years of experience were not enough.Piloting a Robinson R22 helicopter, Ward, 60, crashed into shallow water off the coast of Apollo Beach. RIP...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearly Retired Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Again, and I don't know it needs to be repeated, but it's way too early to say what would or would not have been the cause of this. Do we know why rotors come off helicopters? Yep. There are not many things that will cause it. But one simply cannot rule anything out. Not yet. Structural failure? Maybe. Low-g mast-bumping? Maybe. Engine failure and delayed reaction to rpm decay? Maybe. At this point it is just silly to say anything other than, "The rotor came off and the helicopter crashed." Let's pick up the pieces and see what they tell us. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliPilotAlan Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) I fly this R-22 regularly (last time was 10-21-12), many hours since 2004, received Private & Commercial ratings in it... it is white with a navy blue stripe (like the one in my profile picture). The witness who claims he saw the rotors fly apart is the same who one said the ship was "black with white rotors". Too many conflicting reports to know exactly what happened...hopefully the NTSB report will be the most accurate as I anxiously await reading, being that this hits so close to home. Edited December 10, 2012 by HeliPilotAlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lelebebbel Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Wreckage has been recovered. Blades and spindles missing, but hub still attached to mast and fuselage. http://kathrynaviationnews.com/?p=118133 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaaron16 Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 So if the hub was still attached, it couldn't be mast bumping, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lelebebbel Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 So if the hub was still attached, it couldn't be mast bumping, right? That seems like a logical conclusion, however I think it is actually not that simple. Mast bumping could still have happened at some point in the sequence, whether or not it was the cause for the blades to (apparently) leave the hub is something that the investigation team will have to work out. Have a look at this: http://www.rotorshop.com/sir9603.pdfThis is the NTSB report from the mid-nineties that, as far as I know, eventually led to SFAR 73. It specifically mentions accidents where loss of main rotor control likely happened without prior low-G conditions. I'll be watching this one closely, this actually has me worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Too many unreported over-speeds? Guess we should know soon. Very odd, scary, and sad incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I remember hearing once that the issues addressed in Safety Notices 37 and 39 can lead to the blades suddenly coming off in flight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klas Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Didn't the new R66 have issues with blades coming off in an accident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Hunt Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 If the aircraft has been started regularly with the clutch engaged, it will cause small fractures to develop, which over time will cause the blade to come off. In one case in Oz about 5 years ago, the engineers were able to count about 250 times that it had been done, which agreed with the stories from pilots from that company. The owner refused to buy a new clutch. Sadly, he sold it, and it was the new owners who paid the full price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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