Counterrotate Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 -If I train completely in a 44, a future career at Starbucks is guaranteed. More likely than not. -TH was lying Through their teeth. -UVU is a useless school and the degree I plan on earning is useless as well Pretty much. -There is NO way a kid out of high school can start a career in helicopter aviation NO ONE said that. And it certainly is possible. Just be prepared for a long tough road in your twenties and into your thirty somethings. Long hours, low pay, the possibility of not finding employment for long periods, and working for people you hate are some of the potential pitfalls. I would recommend you start before you have a family. Once you've got a family this career field loses a lot of it's luster. DEFINITELY find another school to train at. There are some very good schools out there. Do your homework and choose wisely. -Go to college, get a "useful" degree, and just maybe if I can find a career making $100k+/yr, I can complete training by 40 and start a helicopter career with a turbine rating by 50? Most pilots begin flight training in their 30s-40s because they are finally at a place in their life/career that they can afford to pay for the training. This is probably the conservative and safe approach, but by then you may be bogged down with a house, a wife and kids, a dog and a cat and many other burdens that would make the nomadic life of a pilot pretty much impossible. Even then it can be done but only if you have 100% unwavering support from your family. I wouldn't wait that long to find out. If this is something you want to do, go do it. It's already been said that a degree in aviation, particularly helicopter aviation is not required. You seem bent on getting a degree attached to your flight ratings (or vice versa). I REALLY REALLY wouldn't recommend this route. It's too much financial burden as well as mental and physical burden at once. Is it possible? Yes, but unless you are one of those people of rare superhuman calibre that can take on a mountain of tasks and excell at all of them, you will be suffering in every category. Take your time. School or flying: Pick ONE. Do it to the best of your ability. Then reassess your options to do the other one. We were all on this threshold at some point. We were all in your shoes. There are many different ways to make it into this industry. All of them take some perseverance and a lot of hard work. In other words, you have to pay your dues. Don't make your dues cost you any more than they have to. That's the best advice I can give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avbug Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 According to many, ERAU is looked at as the most accredited areonautical universities in the country. They have the networking ability and graduation from ERAU in the fixed wing world means a shot at working for Delta, AA, SW, etc right out of college. Whomever you've been talking to hasn't a clue. ERAU causes chuckles in the work-a-day world. They're expensive, and "riddle kids" are a joke; the education is fine, but they've got a reputation for snot-nosed rich kids in the business, and a degree from ERAU is more of a designer brand name that doesn't do much for you other than show that you spent a ridiculous amount of money to get a piece of paper that doesn't say anything more than your FAA certification does. ERAU talks itself up a lot, but that's all. Nobody hires on with Southwest Airlines, American Airlines, or Delta right out of school. Delta very nearly requires military experience, and the baseline for most new-hires at any of the above is around 5,000 hours, with between that and ten thousand being closer to the norm. Only SWA doesn't require the degree, and they strongly prefer it. I knew a gentleman in Iraq who was a former ERAU instructor. I flew with him twice. He started rambling about private pilot practical test standards one night as we descended just south of Mosul, over the Tigris, for what reason I have no idea. He nearly ran out of fuel one night because he blasted off in an aircraft that just returned from a 6 hour mission, without checking the fuel. He had the judgement of a fruit fly, and the mere fact of his survival over the years may be one of the greatest miracles known to modern man. Don't be him. Don't waste your money on expensive degrees that don't do much for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotortramp Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 If the above posts didn't get your attention, Embry Riddle only has 16% women as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiagofern Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I know you mentioned not being able to do WOFT. Since you didn't go into to much detail, i don't know if you are eligible to go enlisted into the military. You will get a GI bill and also be able to take classes while you are in. This may help with some experience and also pay for your schooling once you get out. my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 If the above posts didn't get your attention, Embry Riddle only has 16% women as well. But, if you're female, Embry-Riddle is 84% male! Depends on your perspective. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counterrotate Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 But, if you're female, Embry-Riddle is 84% male! Depends on your perspective. So we've determined that ERAU is a good place for women to pick up snot nosed rich boys. Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 So we've determined that ERAU is a good place for women to pick up snot nosed rich boys. Great. <_> Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counterrotate Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well my advice stands. College+Flight school = HUGE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. Do one, or the other, at a time. Choose wisely where you plan to attend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotortramp Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 But, if you're female, Embry-Riddle is 84% male! Depends on your perspective. Always looking at the glass half full haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I did college and flight school at the same time. I qualified for financial aid and was able to get a cheaper loan interest rate because I was going to school which in turn helped me pay for helo school. It is all about what you put your mind to. "If is to be its up to me." Now I have a great job that pays more than most helicopter entry positions, getting lots of experience, and enjoying life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counterrotate Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I did college and flight school at the same time. I qualified for financial aid and was able to get a cheaper loan interest rate because I was going to school which in turn helped me pay for helo school. It is all about what you put your mind to. "If is to be its up to me." Now I have a great job that pays more than most helicopter entry positions, getting lots of experience, and enjoying life. Sharing what school and flight program might be a good idea. If you were successful, what you did that led to your success is what this chap is looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I did college and flight school at the same time. I qualified for financial aid and was able to get a cheaper loan interest rate because I was going to school which in turn helped me pay for helo school. It is all about what you put your mind to. "If is to be its up to me." Now I have a great job that pays more than most helicopter entry positions, getting lots of experience, and enjoying life. Sounds like he won the lottery!,...will you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azhigher Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 A lot of good advice in this thread. While they are dishing out conservative wisdom, let me share my experience with you. Started flying at 19, took out a giant loan to pay for school. Did flight school full time, worked part time at night. Knocked out all ratings in about 15 months, worked as a flight instructor and made about 35k doing that. That was enough to live cheap on, and start chipping away at the loans. After instructing for 16 months, went to Vegas for tours. Made ~58k doing that for a year. Went to a different company in Vegas and made ~90-95k depending on what tips are like at the ripe age of 24. Am I just rolling in dough? No, but I make enough to live comfortably and pay off my loans quickly. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, take out a giant loan and roll the dice to see if you make a career out of it, but it is a possibility. It takes hard work, a lot of luck, and networking, but it can be done. Just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Mac_84 Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Wow, I saw that $40,000 for tuition, but I figured that was 4 years, not one! The hell? How does ANYBODY afford to go there. Literally, you would have to hit the lottery or your parents make a lot of money. So let me really sum up, in all seriousness, what you guys have told me. Earning a degree along with flight training is extremely hard so I need to focus on one at a time. That's basically what I understand. So, that being said, would you say it is a smart idea to hit the community college for a semester, do some research, and find a flight school that does 22's for a reasonable price? I've found the average price for a 22 is $55,000-$60 for CPL/CFI. Is that correct, or am I reading sites wrong? And yes, the good thing about doing school and flight school at the same time is being able to use student loan interest rates rather than high collateral rates. But, I guess it all comes to the same thing. It's going to cost money and the going can get rough. Every pilot that has talked about his/her experience early on has said that you have to be willing to give up things early on. Which, I am completely willing to do. Flying is what I've wanted to do since I was young. I wish it could be through the military, but unfortunately some youthful indescretion years ago has not allowed me to chose that route. (For those of you wondering why I stopped WOFT or hadn't enlisted instead) Lindsey had mentioned she was in the WOFT process and I wish anybody attempting to be part of the WO ranks the best of luck. Although I didn't make it, I spent many hours traveling, networking, and researching on it. It's quite a journey, no doubt. I wish I would have made it to the board interview, I could have had a big one up for anybody looking for advice since everywhere I looked was useless. So, good luck on the interrogation by a three officer panel. Anyway, enough personal pitty. I guess we can add TH to the "just out to get your money" flight schools. Back to square one. Thanks again, for all the input. If you guys don't mind, I'd love to stick around as this place is a goldmine! Get to know a few of you and have a laugh about how I was going to end up serving $5 coffee after spending $100,000 on flight school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Mac_84 Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I can't tell if you guys are telling me to stay away from Bristow and Boatpix or that I should take a look at them. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Here is a list of employers from the 2012 ERAU hiring event (pilot jobs and non-pilot jobs) that recruit snot nose rich boys with worthless pieces of paper. http://erau.experience.com/stu/cf_registered_employers?fhnd=5009&_tcgis_table=%3Ctcgis+tag%3D%226%22+page%3D%221%22%3E%3Csort+id%3D%22emp_name%22+asc%3D%221%22+%2F%3E%3C%2Ftcgis%3E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloidaho Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Tom22, I think most people are referring to getting a professional pilot type degree. Embry Riddle has a lot of degree programs. To be a pilot, you don't need the expensive degree on top of the expensive ratins. There is a world of difference between the value of an ERAU degree as a professional pilot and an ERAU degree in aerospace engineering. ERAU is just expensive. It is a lot of money to pay to be very specialized. But yes, I'd agree with the sentiment that ERAU isn't just snot nosed rich boys. In my ERAU classes, most of the students are military and at a variety of stages in life. ERAU is awesome about being flexible when it comes to being in the military and having to move around while getting an education. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrkik Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I haven't heard anything bad about Bristow. Do some research on Boatpix. Question: Are you planning on getting your instrument rating and CFII? My flight school will not hire anyone who doesn't have their CFII. It seems like companies really like to see the Instrument rating, and I think I would recommend it. $60k would probably take you through CPL and CFI, but generally instrument training and CFII is done in the R44, and that adds $10-$20k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Mac_84 Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I haven't heard anything bad about Bristow. Do some research on Boatpix. Question: Are you planning on getting your instrument rating and CFII? My flight school will not hire anyone who doesn't have their CFII. It seems like companies really like to see the Instrument rating, and I think I would recommend it. $60k would probably take you through CPL and CFI, but generally instrument training and CFII is done in the R44, and that adds $10-$20k. Alright. I thought the insturment certification came with the CFI, I guess this is wrong? So should I do my 150 hours in the 22 and then this 'CFII' in a 44 for some hours as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counterrotate Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Alright. I thought the insturment certification came with the CFI, I guess this is wrong? So should I do my 150 hours in the 22 and then this 'CFII' in a 44 for some hours as well? Whatever your checkbook can handle. 44 time is not a requirement, though it is good to have some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloidaho Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 CFII = Certified Flight Instructor Instrument -- you can teach people to fly instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Alright. I thought the insturment certification came with the CFI, I guess this is wrong? So should I do my 150 hours in the 22 and then this 'CFII' in a 44 for some hours as well? I’ll suggest you do a lot more research. In order to compete for helicopter entry level jobs you should attempt to reach the following goals:Private Helicopter Certificate.Instrument Helicopter Rating.Commercial Helicopter Certificate.Flight Instructor Certificate (CFI).Instrument Helicopter Flight Instructor Rating (CFII).During your training to gain the above certification, you’ll need to fly the R22 and the R44 enough to meet the Special Federal Aviation Regulation (SFAR) 73 for Robinson products which basically states you’ll need to accumulate 200 hours of total time in order to teach in their products. In case you weren’t aware, teaching is the most common entry level job and the easiest to get. Plus, along the way, get some flight time in the Sikorsky 300 (S300). The R22, R44 and the S300 are the most prevalent training helicopters in the marketplace. Therefore, it’s wise to complete your training with time (experience) in all 3 of these machines. This will prove you with the "best case scenario" when discussing entry-level job opportunities. With that, the time spent in the R44 should be to the SFAR minimum as the R44 costs more to train in. Total cost 70-90K. Timeframe, full-time, 8 to 12 months. Edited December 7, 2012 by Spike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrkik Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Alright. I thought the insturment certification came with the CFI, I guess this is wrong? So should I do my 150 hours in the 22 and then this 'CFII' in a 44 for some hours as well? Spike is exactly right. Generally, R22's aren't set up with the instruments needed for instrument training. You can find some though. Below is the order I'll be doing my training and which aircraft I will use: Private Pilot - Helicopter in the R22Instrument - Helicopter in the R44Commercial - Helicopter in the R22CFI - Helicopter in the R22 CFII - Helicopter in the R44 This way my pilot-in-command (PIC) time from instrument rating is put toward my commercial certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I would suggest you do your instrument training in an S300. If you really want R44 time, then while you're building up to the 150 hours you need for your commercial just take up one of those "time-building" offers, that come here every so often, so you can get that time as cheaply as you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 In my Opinion, there are pros and cons to every training helicopter. Typically, whatever machine you train in really doesn’t matter as long as you get time in all three. That is, between the 3 machines and within the 200 hours total time, you should have more-then-enough fudge-factor time. Additionally, it would appear the R22 IFR trainer is becoming less prevalent in the training sector so if the only option is the R44, then so be it. However, finding a school with a R22 or S300 IFR trainer will save you a boatload of cash which is something to consider when choosing a school. Furthermore, a school that completes private pilot certification in the minimum amount of time would be highly attractive as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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