High Turnover in EMS? Why?

[Rotortramp]

I haven't done a thorough and objective experiment on this, but just from my personal perspective it seems like their is somewhat high turnover in the EMS industry. Any interviews or articles I see, seem to have Pilot A doing random jobs, and then say 2 years of EMS before leaving for something else.

 

I'd like to know what the negatives are to the industry and what you think causes people to leave, if that's even true. I think I saw a poll on here at one point saying that most people wanted to fly EMS as their end goal. It seems like having a 7x7 schedule, with the ability to actually "live" where you are working would trump any animosity with the med crews, but I'd like to hear your first hand experience, or what your opinoin is on the matter.

 

Perhaps the flying isn't what they thought? Working nights is too hard? Office place politics? All of the above?

[avbug]

I don't recall having any difficulty with medical crews, and in some of my work, we lived in the same house when on duty (one job, lived there full time, all the time, while the medical crews rotated through).

 

EMS pay wasn't the greatest, and it was a very much in-the-moment job. Lots of waiting and then hurry up.

 

EMS is work, but it's also not career work, in that you can plan on doing the same thing ten years from now, unless you elect to move to a management position.

 

EMS can also be fickle; companies come and go (or more increasingly, get absorbed by other companies), and when changes occur, bases close or move, etc.

 

I enjoyed doing EMS work, but it wasn't really long term work. I left my last EMS company when they began bouncing paychecks.

[Wally]

If and when I leave HEMS, compensation is going to be a primary factor.

Additionally, the industry is busy chasing it's tail with operational control factors, risk assessment matrices, A021, documenting this, that and the other to expose, prevent and/or document fault. I sign/assent/confirm/review/have in my possession so much paper that it takes longer to doo-dah doo-dah-day than real, live, productive preflight planning.

[Velocity173]

Under "Vacancies" in the EMS board you'll see a discussion of the topic there. In short, it's a flying job that poses particular challenges. We had someone quit because she was uncomfortable flying single pilot to tight LZs. That, and she scared her crew on more than one occasion. It's really not a job for someone with a weak stomach either. I have friends who say they wouldn't be able to handle it. If you can't do your job with someone's mangled legs up in the cockpit with you then you better find employment elsewhere. Not to be dramatic but that's the way it is. You see people at their worst in situations they never dreamed they'd be in.

 

As far as people doing it for a couple years and moving on, I think that's true of most helo jobs. At my base we have two guys that both did oil and the overseas stuff. The other guy did LE before EMS. Like anything, after awhile you get tired of it and move on to something else.

 

If you go under vacancies you'll read why I enjoy it. Maybe in 5-10 yrs I'll get tired but right now this is what I'm interested in.

[Flying Pig]

If you can't do your job with someone's mangled legs up in the cockpit with you then you better find employment elsewhere. Not to be dramatic but that's the way it is. You see people at their worst in situations they never dreamed they'd be in.

 

Sounds like a standard issue graveyard shift!

[Flying Pig]

Wait.... that was insensitive, I should have used a

[Gomer Pylot]

I think "all of the above", plus more, applies. There is no one reason. I know of bases where politics controls everything, and others where everyone mostly gets along. What med crews want above all else is competence. If they trust your flying and decision-making, then they will be much less likely to try to get you replaced, because the devil you know is better than the one you don't, and a new pilot might be much worse. They really prefer continuity, not change. I've known pilots who quit because they weren't getting enough flight time. You will not build time in EMS, maybe a hundred hours a year on average, more or less, and that means it's not a good job for less experienced pilots. You have to be able to land and take off from a scene in a field, or a road, in the middle of the night, after not having flown for weeks, and do it perfectly every time. That takes lots of experience, both for the muscle memory and the judgement. Lots of things cause pilots to look elsewhere, and I think it's an individual decision in every case, each with a different cause.

[Nearly Retired]

Me, I couldn't take the boredom. You probably go in *thinking* that it's going to be exciting and all that, but most jobs probably ain't. We pilots are arch-typical Type-A people. We don't like to sit around and do nothing (contrary to what we claim). Eventually it wears on us. Then it manifests in different ways. There's only so much make-work crap you can do before you start saying to yourself, "You know, I really want to FLY, dammit."

[eagle5]

So first you go to tours in the Grand Canyon and fly your butt off! Then you get tired of flying around in circles all day every day, so once you have the hours you go try EMS. After a while at that you get bored and ancy from not flying very much.

 

What's next?

[Velocity173]

I wouldn't say boredom is the word. As a matter of fact the only flying I can compare to the excitement of combat would be EMS. Boredom is taking a student up flying traffic patterns all day. Or how about flying hours over the gulf to some platform. That's boredom. People quit for multiple reasons. If you're a young pilot and want to fly 500 hrs a year, then this isn't your job. Like I said before, it's for people who could care less about building hours. I fly enough on my days off so I really don't care how much I fly in my job. I average one flight per day and that's fine for me.

[Flying Pig]

When Im bored I go to the range!

[Fred0311]

Lead and brass, only a little cheaper than avgas.

[eagle5]

I wouldn't say boredom is the word. As a matter of fact the only flying I can compare to the excitement of combat would be EMS. Boredom is taking a student up flying traffic patterns all day. Or how about flying hours over the gulf to some platform. That's boredom. People quit for multiple reasons. If you're a young pilot and want to fly 500 hrs a year, then this isn't your job. Like I said before, it's for people who could care less about building hours. I fly enough on my days off so I really don't care how much I fly in my job. I average one flight per day and that's fine for me.

 

I was refering to the bordom of all the time spent at work not flying!

[Nearly Retired]

Hey, I flew in the GOM for 13 years and never found it boring. Sure, the scenery was fairly, um, "consistent" but the actual flying was a lot of fun. Back to basics: Try holding a heading on a long flight without a landmark to sight off of! Okay, belay that- try holding a constant heading in a helicopter by just using the DG and not referencing the GPS. (I know, I know, that's pretty dumb "private pilot" stuff, but I'm telling you, we helicopter pilots don't do a lot of long cross-country flying in which we hold a constant heading for a long time like airplane pilots do. If we don't practice that stuff we get sloppy.)

 

Try to see how long you can hold 1250 feet. Or how well you can plan the approach so that you don't even touch the pitch after the first power reduction until the termination. And no two platform/rig landings were ever alike, even on the same day.

 

There are a ton of things you can do to make/keep flying interesting. But sitting around for hours waiting for some buzzer/alarm/bell to go off? Not for me, thanks. I'd go crazy trying to find ways of keeping busy. We would have the cleanest helicopter in the country, you bet! 'Cuz I'd make sure the mechanic washed it after every flight! And I'd "supervise" (i.e. stand around with my hands in my pockets) to make sure he did it right

[Flying Pig]

You know how those mechnics are.... I am convinced that if we eliminated the entire Maintenance career field the aircraft would fly 100x better and would never be down

[Velocity173]

Oh we don't sit around that much. I work at a slow base and I still average one flight per day and about 150 hrs per year. I know guys flying 2 flights a day and over 200 hrs a year for only working 6 months a year. I could easily fly during my week off and get more hours and overtime but I don't. I don't need the extra money and hours and I have a plane sitting in the hanger that needs to be in the air.

 

I don't know of anyone leaving because they want to fly more. They leave because they either can't handle the flying (new people), they want more money, or they're simply ready for a change. Most just transfer to another base because it's closer to relatives.

 

EMS is like any other job. You do it for awhile and then move onto something else. My thoughts right now are that I sure don't want to live in the Gulf area and sure don't want to be gone from home for 2 weeks to go to the Gulf.I definitely don't want to do contract stuff overseas either. I couldn't stand the Middle East when I was in the military so why would I want to go back as a civilian. I could get my CFI and go back to instructing but that would get old real quick and there's no money in it. LE is OK but most programs require being a ground cop first. Not big on doing that. Fire fighting sounds cool but most require experience and it's seasonal work. So the only other segment of aviation I could think about going to in the future might be a corporate job. Then again I know someone who did it who quit to fly for Customs. Life isn't always greener on the other side.

 

I always said that there's no perfect flying job out there. Sometimes we're lucky enough to choose our job, sometimes we have to take what's available. We all want to believe our job is the best and we fly the coolest helicopter. In reality, if you're getting paid to fly anything, life is pretty good.

[Nearly Retired]

Oh we don't sit around that much. I work at a slow base and I still average one flight per day and about 150 hrs per year.

 

Wow, that job must be thrilling! Heh- you call one flight per 12-hour day "not sitting around much??" Damn. I'd shoot myself. Really. Oh, and that's an average, right? Some days you do *zero* flights and on weekends you might do two or three in a shift, right? Which brings the average to "one flight per day." Sorry, I couldn't do it. Glad there are pilots who can endure those types of jobs.

 

Hey, if you're happy in EMS, great, more power to you. But admit that it's not a fast-paced job - not even at an average of *two* flights per day. You do a lot of sitting around and waiting. Some guys are better at that than others. Add in the hospital drama which again, some pilots are better at dealing with, and the other factors of being an EMS pilot, and you discover why the turnover is so high. Pilots are always looking for the greener grass.

[Pohi]

I know what you are saying, but I do think it's fair to point out that not all GOM contracts are flying all of the time either. There are two helicopters that haven't even been pulled out in over a week at my base. Granted, it is the holidays, but they do a lot of sitting around the hangar the rest of the year. The guys that have the contract love it.

 

I can't stand hanging around like that, if I get stuck at the base due to weather, I'm extremely stir crazy by noon. But, I still like flying, some people (a suprising amount) would rather stay at the base most of the time. To each their own, I guess.

 

The nice thing about the GOM is that a person, if they have patience, can find and get a contract that flies the "perfect" amount for that person. There are contracts that fly all day and every day to ones that hardly ever fly, and everything inbetween. I'm sure there is also EMS positions that also have a varied amount of business.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Pohi

[Velocity173]

Wow, that job must be thrilling! Heh- you call one flight per 12-hour day "not sitting around much??" Damn. I'd shoot myself. Really. Oh, and that's an average, right? Some days you do *zero* flights and on weekends you might do two or three in a shift, right? Which brings the average to "one flight per day." Sorry, I couldn't do it. Glad there are pilots who can endure those types of jobs.

 

Hey, if you're happy in EMS, great, more power to you. But admit that it's not a fast-paced job - not even at an average of *two* flights per day. You do a lot of sitting around and waiting. Some guys are better at that than others. Add in the hospital drama which again, some pilots are better at dealing with, and the other factors of being an EMS pilot, and you discover why the turnover is so high. Pilots are always looking for the greener grass.

 

I've flown in two different wars and flown all over the world. I don't require a "fast paced" job. One flight doing EMS is as exciting as 3 flights in most other jobs. As I said, the challenges of EMS flying, are similar to what I experienced in combat. Only now no one is shooting. As far as "hospital drama"? I have none. I don't deal with their politics. I get paid to fly and that's it. Only extraneous nonsense outside of flying I do is an easy Avistar course once a month.

 

We all have our reasons for picking what we do. My requirements were to live next to family and hopefully fly single pilot EMS. Money wasn't a factor. I enjoy what I'm doing and I hope you enjoy what you're doing. I have many friends who have done or are currently doing GOM stuff. Like I said, if you're getting paid to fly, life is good.

[Nearly Retired]

The OP did not originally ask why pilots *stay* in EMS jobs but rather his question was, "Why the high turnover in EMS?" Some of us were merely giving him reasons why pilots leave. Not every EMS job is as perfect as yours, Velocity, and not every pilot is suited to *every* EMS gig. You should at least acknowledge that.

 

If a pilot who is single takes a job in a city in which he does not have roots (no family or connection with the city), then there's a chance he'll soon become bored and look for something...different. Let's face it, EMS is a "retirement" job...one where you go when you're done with the hustle and bustle of "real" flying. That's why there are so many, ahem, older EMS pilots that get complained about over on the "bad" JH board. It's just not that challenging nor demanding.

 

Single guy in his 30's with 2,000 hours or so doing EMS in a town he's not originally from = not gonna be around long.

[Velocity173]

The OP did not originally ask why pilots *stay* in EMS jobs but rather his question was, "Why the high turnover in EMS?" Some of us were merely giving him reasons why pilots leave. Not every EMS job is as perfect as yours, Velocity, and not every pilot is suited to *every* EMS gig. You should at least acknowledge that.

 

If a pilot who is single takes a job in a city in which he does not have roots (no family or connection with the city), then there's a chance he'll soon become bored and look for something...different. Let's face it, EMS is a "retirement" job...one where you go when you're done with the hustle and bustle of "real" flying. That's why there are so many, ahem, older EMS pilots that get complained about over on the "bad" JH board. It's just not that challenging nor demanding.

 

Single guy in his 30's with 2,000 hours or so doing EMS in a town he's not originally from = not gonna be around long.

 

Yeah I agree with most of what you're are saying. I've said before ths isn't everyone's cup of tea and it is an excellent retirement job. I simply listed the reasons why I believe people move on and don't know of anyone who has left because they wanted more hours. This is a job for professionals. I don't come into work with a stupid grin on my face and say "guys, it's a beautiful day, don't you hope we go flying?" If I fly, great, if I don't, oh well. Like I said I get plenty of time flying during my week off so I don't have some burning desire to be out flying all day at work. My friend told me the other day- "We get just enough flying to keep busy, and not too much to get burnt out."

 

I think some pilots require a structured schedule. They don't like to sit around waiting for a "buzzer" to ring. For them they probably would walk around like a nervous wreck wondering if they're going to fly and where's it going to be. I actually find it relaxing. Usually I'm reading a book, the phone rings and then 3-4 mins later we're airborne. I think for some pilots they'd like to be given a route from A to B and want to take time to plan that route in detail. Doesn't happen here unless I'm ferrying an aircraft. Also along that "structured schedule" some people don't want to work days one week and nights another. I suppose these could be reasons for people wanting to leave but definitely not popular ones.

 

I know of only two people who have left HEMS for other work. Primary reason for both was money. All of us have said that over and over. Money usually trumps all other reasons. It will allow you to go places and live in conditions you would normally not want to do. Their secondary reasons were that one guy wanted to go back to the added safety of dual engine dual pilot aircraft. I agree it is safer but I still prefer single pilot. Secondary reason for the other guy was what I mentioned earlier. The things you see while doing this job sometimes wear on ya.

 

I don't agree with the job not being "challenging or demanding." If that was the case you wouldn't see so many articles online discussing the safety record of HEMS. You wouldn't see reports of HEMS being the "most dangerous job in America" either. No other aviation segment in recent years has been scrutinized by the NTSB and FAA than HEMS. When I'm out flying in the middle of the night on one hour of sleep to pick up some drunk teenagers because they've wrapped their car around a telephone pole, well I wouldn't exactly call that mundane flying. There are challenges there; sometimes physical and sometimes environmental. I don't equate number of hours flown necessarily as demanding flying.

 

When I think about it I don't know of any aviation field where people stay in it forever. Do people who do ENG or tours stay there for decades? I don't know. All the people I work with have done some form of aviation prior to doing this. Whether that be oil, ENG, LE, contract or the military. Heck I flew my butt off as an instructor at Rucker and none of us wanted to do that forever. You see guys so sick and tired of the routine of flying traffic patterns with students that they're more than eager to get back to flying in a real unit. I think we all get tired of doing the same thing over and over and then search out other forms of employment. I enjoy what I do now but who knows, maybe one day I'll go overseas because it's more rewarding to fly Saudis around. At any rate, I just feel glad I have a job in a tough economy, getting paid to do what I like.

[Gomer Pylot]

Our base is one of the busier in our area, and we average about one flight per day, in a 24-hour period, meaning on average one pilot flies, but the other doesn't. I average about 3 flights per 7-day hitch, but there are certainly busier ones, and I've flown 4 in a day, but I've also gone an entire month without a single flight, more than once. The main reason it's an old guy's job is that after going more than a month without flying, I will probably have to fly in the wee hours of the morning, in weather just above minimums, to an accident scene out in the sticks, dodging powerlines, fence posts, and road signs, and do it perfectly. I wouldn't want to even think about doing this job with 1,000 hours. I didn't have the flying skills or judgement to survive it back then. Good judgement comes from using bad judgement, surviving, and learning from the experience. That takes a lot of time.

 

Like I said above, I don't think there is one reason you can find for the turnover, every pilot and every job is different, and there is a different reason for every resignation. But in the mix are low flight times, base politics, low pay, long drives to work, and everything else mentioned above. It's not a perfect occupation, and never will be. But for me, it beats picking cotton. I did a lot of that when I was growing up, and I swore I would not do that my entire life. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up, but I knew damn well I wasn't going to be a cotton farmer. My job may not be perfect, but at least I don't spend all day in a cotton patch. I just keep reminding myself about that.

[Velocity173]

Holy crap! Now a month without flying would be extreme. Most I've done is 5 days without it. Never gone an entire hitch without a flight and I don't think any of the other guys at my base has either. The skills would be a bit rusty going into a scene site after not having flown in a month. Still beats any non flying job wishing you were flying...definitely better than picking cotton.

[DontCallMeShirley]

Great information. I'm also thinking of going this route.

[Rotortramp]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

 

So it seems like a matter of perspective whether people like it or not. Doesn't look like there are any elephants in the room that are not out in the open for the individual to decide if it is worthwhile career.

 

I'll just go through some of the issues people have and perhaps you could correct me if I have it wrong or misguided.

 

Pay: Looks like the pay is in the ballpark of $60k starting out (Source: Air Methods). That doesn't seem too bad really. Although I'm sure this is a matter of ones circumstances though; single guy, not bad, family of 5, somewhat tight. The average household income in America is something like 50K, so if one desires an "average" life, then perhaps it's suitable. I talked to an EMS pilot recently, and he said depending on how much you desire to work, you could make over $100k seeking out workover opportunities. I'm not sure if this is true or reasonable, but seems plausible, and puts you in the top 10% of income earners. I try to excuse myself from the idea of "saving lives", but in reality, you are doing what you love and helping out people at the same time, which seems great regardless of compensation. A lot our airline pilot counterparts don't even see the $100k mark in their lifetimes and I doubt their flying is as fulfilling/challenging.

 

Boredom: I saw this mentioned a lot, and it looks like this boils down to personality. Some who are bouncing off the walls looking for something to do, and others who love it. Again it seems like a matter of perspective, as the typical office worker is often on a short leash to be working and staying on task at all times. I visited one base that was combined with a fire station, and they were all playing catch with a football talking about their weekend plans. One of the pilots jokingly said he waxed his car so many times it started taking the paint off haha. This sounds great to me and didn't believe it quite at first. Learn a new language, play guitar, lift weights, watch tv, sleep, work on your car; all sound like great things to do while being paid. I consider myself really good at keeping entertained without any outside stimulation.

 

 

Flight time: Again, seems to be all in what you want. As someone mentioned, some seek out set schedules and want to fly as much as possible, others are happy flying once a day. I'm not sure what category I fall in as I love to fly, but the challenging nature and purpose of the flights seem very gratifying even if you aren't flying 6 hours a day. Perhaps this will outweigh the lack of flight time, but its something I'll definitely consider.

 

 

Schedule: People often pose the question: "if money weren't an object what would you do". Most say travel and spend time with family. HEMS seems to offer that pretty well. The 7x7 schedule seems like a fantastic idea and would allow one to travel the world and volunteer for meaningful things outside of work. Family life might be difficult with the night shifts, but again this is probably dependent on ones specific lifestyle and family situation. Making a starting salary of 60K with 26 weeks vacation, play guitar and whittle wood while at work, and then go help people, all while flying...

 

 

The undesirable cities and stressful flights are something I can't really comment on, but may be very major drawbacks to a long time career. I would think that transfering wouldn't be too hard after one has built up EMS experience and made connections, but this may be overly hopeful.

 

I appreciate everyone's opinion though, the good and the bad.