Cherry Drying: NAMING NAMES!!

[JCM5]

[Trans Lift]

Nearly Retired, how Christian of you to bash Atheists. I am married, with kids, perfectly happy in all aspects of my life, and I have no faith whatsoever in anything except myself and my fellow human beings. I work hard, I provide for my family, and when I make mistakes, I have no one to blame but myself. It's called personal accountability. I am responsible for my own actions. I do at times need guidance. I seek it out from those around me with experience in such matters as I am dealing with. It works wonders. I have never had a conversation with any supernatural being or seen any other sign of such. I don't believe what anyone says or writes or claims unless I can somehow verify it myself to a level that satisfies me. Taking anything at face value unverified is foolish. If at any time I have an experience that leads me to believe otherwise, I will adapt my views. Until then, I am happy to believe that I am made up of the same stuff that the universe is comprised of, having at some point been the enriched guts exploded from some distant star: Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon, Etc... We are made up of the most common stuff in the universe. As Neil DeGrasse-Tyson puts it "If we were made up of some rare isotope of Bismuth, we might be able to say 'We're special', but we are made up of some of the most common stuff there is!" We are not special. It is very likely that life in the universe is an inevitability rather than a miracle. As for a creator, if there is one. I see no sign of that based on my own experience or feelings, and my interactions with those of faith has convinced me that most (MOST, not ALL) are very closed minded. I don't like closed minded people because I cannot share my passion for exploration, discovery, new insights, new paradigms, new ideas... We are stuck as a species because people are rooted in an archaic belief system that encourages us to keep our heads down and mind our own damn business. How that makes anyone happy, I have no idea.

 

f*ckin A!!!

[terminal_velo]

I know some of you disagree, but I attribute her unhappiness to her atheism, which she proudly avows. As I explain in my blogpost, atheists are the center of their world because by definition they do not see anything bigger than the human. They typically don’t need spiritual guidance from any flying spaghetti monster or master puppeteer, which tells you how they misinterpret and misunderstand the very concept of a Creator. They think that they are fully equipped with all of the things they need (from strength to courage to wisdom) to handle anything life throws their way. (By the way, her soon-to-be-ex-husband does not share her atheist views on life. But that’s a whole ‘nother issue that we need not discuss here.)

 

You are severely misguided about what atheists believe.

 

Atheism is not a set of beliefs that all who claim atheism must subscribe to. Atheism is simply the non-belief in theism. You can not make blanket claims to what atheists believe any more than you can make blanket claims about the beliefs of those who deny the existence of Zeus. Pre-packaged, mass distributed, unquestioned philosophies are the product of religion, not atheism.

 

Furthermore, I have little doubt that atheists are just as happy, productive, and successful (if not more so) than Christians born of the same citizenship and socioeconomic status.

 

The trouble is, it’s not true...I mean what atheists think. They are wrong. There is *something else*…a supernatural aspect to our universe which is as unexplainable as it is undeniable.

 

You seem so sure about this. Would you like to provide evidence that supports your statement? I wait with excitement.

 

So WHY do I even make this an issue? Because I think it’s important to have faith. As helicopter pilots I think it’s important to be in touch with our spiritual side, to understand that we are NOT the center of the universe. I’m not saying that everyone has to be a God-fearing, born-again Christian (but it wouldn’t hurt). I just think it’s stupid for pilots to announce to the world that they have *no* faith…zero faith...no faith in God, no faith in other people, no faith in things, no faith in nuthin.

 

Why?

[Counterrotate]

 

You seem so sure about this. Would you like to provide evidence that supports your statement? I wait with excitement.

 

 

You're just gonna have to have faith man.

 

The very premise that NR bases his perception of reality around is belief in something that does not have any proof based on verifiable evidence of any kind. With that said, how can he be expected to look at anything in such a way. His paradigm precludes it.

[pilot#476398]

 

f*ck'n aye Bubba,...er ah Stewie!

[Nearly Retired]

All of you so-called atheists in this thread have convinced me more than ever that my premise in my original post here is correct. Very simply, 100% consensus among the Church of Atheism or not, all of the atheists I've ever met ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE that there is no Creator. They get up on their high horse (higher than mine), hold a hand up with index finger extended and proclaim, "GOD DOES NOT EXIST!" They choose to believe this and do not allow for even the remote possibility that they could be wrong. Most of you respondents above, while claiming otherwise have just proven the point.

 

Okay fine. Believe what you want. But it's stupid.

 

Oh dear, is that more "atheist bashing?" Okay. Is it "unChristianlike?" Okay. Does that make me "not a Christian?" Umm. Maybe it makes me a "bad Christian?" Okay.

 

Look, stomp your feet all you want...hold your breath until you turn blue if you like. Insist that there is NOTHING else in the universe higher than a human...that there was no intelligent design in our being. Fine! But you're stupid. You're unintelligent. You're narrow-minded...perhaps closed-minded. Are these the qualities that we like to see in pilots?? Not me. I'm sorry to have to share the sky with some of you who really need to open your eyes and look around. And if that offends you, too bad! Atheism is not rational; it's not sane.

 

Agnostics, now those I can understand and abide. But atheists? Come on...get real. Oh, and "that woman" to whom we keep referring proudly announces that she is an ATHEIST. (I think that some of YOU people need to know more about theists, agnostics and atheists and need to stop lecturing *me* about what you think atheism is. Some of you don't even know what you believe.)

 

I find it funny...I mean I really laugh at those who cannot have a discussion about Creation without bringing religion into it. I try to keep religion out of my discussions. I talk about faith in a Creator (whom many call "God"). That is all. Even you fallen-away Catholics: Does this negate ALL of your faith? Does the fact that you don't consider yourself a Catholic anymore mean that ALL of your spirituality is now invalid? "The Catholic Church is wrong SO THERE IS NO GOD!!" Umm, yeeeaaaahhhhh, that makes sense...not.

 

There are thousands of religions (some say as many as 11,000 subsets). Many religions are "non-Christian" while still believing in creation. You could say atheism is a form of "religion." Well forget religion. F*ck it all. Why can't you just allow the possibility that we were Created?

 

And if that is the case, then there was probably a Creator. So just acknowledge that there is a Creator and that He loves you and leave it at that. What's so hard about that? Why is that soooooo difficult for some of you to admit? Why do some of you put so much effort into *not* believing it? Just so you can think you're smarter and better than everyone else? I truly think that's the case - from the way some of you insult people of faith.

 

Now, me personally, I do take it a step further and believe that the Creator sent a manifestation of himself in human form as an example to show us how to live. We typically call this example Christ. You don't have to believe in Christ; that's up to you. But those who do follow Christ's teachings call themselves "Christians." It's that simple. Are Christians perfect? Of course not. Are some Christians bitter, unhappy people? Undoubtedly, but only if their faith is not strong. Because Christians who really, really believe in Christ's existence God's everlasting love can never be truly unhappy. Uh-oh, is this Christian-bashing? Goddammit Bob, is there anyone you WON'T bash??

 

Those atheists who deny there is a Creator (and ergo that there was no Christ) have no basis for their actions toward other humans other than some sort of innate, vague feeling of right and wrong of which they cannot explain the source and that no other species in the planet seems to exhibit. But if you deny Christ, your feelings and actions toward other people can fairly be described as "unChristian" and totally random. Stop arguing about this with me already - it is what it is!

 

And PLEASE stop assuming that I think everyone who isn't a Christian leads an unhappy, miserable life. That's not what I think and I've never said that. If YOU lead a happy Godless, amoral and immoral life...then wonderful. More power to you. Case in point...

 

"Counterrotate" said:

I am married, with kids, perfectly happy in all aspects of my life, and I have no faith whatsoever in anything except myself and my fellow human beings.

 

Wow. But how sad! And how stupid. How very, very stupid. I'm sure your wife would just jump for joy to learn that you don't believe that she loves you...because of course she cannot prove it scientifically. Oh, she can demonstrate it by her actions, but can she really prove it beyond your "shadow of a doubt" demand? Obviously not. So should we call her? Can we? Man, I'd love to listen to *that* conversation! "Sorry honey, I know you SAY you love me, but I just cannot believe it - in fact I'll never believe it. Don't feel bad. I hope you understand - nothing personal!" Heh.

 

And I'm sure your kids would be equally thrilled to know that they cannot actually prove that daddy loves them, moreover that he would never even attempt to because such an endeavor would be scientifically foolish. "So kids, you'll just have to take daddy's word that I love you. You don't have to believe it...just as I don't really believe that mommy loves me...and I really don't expect you to have faith in anything that cannot be proven in a court of law or laboratory. Go to sleep now...sleep tight!" Now THERE'S a little bedtime story I'd love to hear. "Suzie, did daddy just tell us that he doesn't expect us to believe that he loves us because there's no such thing as faith??" "That's right, Tommy, now go to sleep."

 

Okay don't believe in love. It's so not scientifically provable.

 

But if you *can* believe in love, then why can't you believe in a Creator? Faith: It's not such a far-fetched concept.

 

Now, about this woman pilot who goes around publicizing that she's an atheist and blogging about all of the bad things in her life including her impending divorce. Avnut (who acts all high and mighty like he's the patriarch of our little family forum here) says it's "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!" Well...why not? SHE is the one who writes the blog...who puts it all out there. She makes it our business. Are we just supposed to ignore her? Umm, isn't that the OPPOSITE of why people publish blogs? I haven't even written half of the "behind the scenes" crap that I know - I only comment on what she prints in her blog. There's a lot I *could* write about if I truly had a vendetta or was obsessed with her as some of you think. But I don't. Suffice to say that there is always more to a story than you get from one side.

 

If you were going to take advice from someone in aviation, shouldn't you know at least a LITTLE about that person? She puts herself out there as some big aviation expert. She is not - she's no more of an expert than I am. More than that, we can legitmately call her judgment into question due to some of the other wacky things she writes. She seems kind of "out there." Does this mean I think she's a raving lunatic who should be immediately institutionalized? Don't be silly, of course not. Some perfectly sane people have, um, "episodes" of craziness just as even some of the craziest people on the face of this earth have periods when they seem perfectly lucid and sane.

 

Unlike Counterrotate above who says he is deliriously happy without any of this God nonsense, I just think "that woman" could improve her life dramatically if she'd just open her mind up a little bit and accept the possiblity that she could actually be wrong about some things. Like God. But no...

 

I was driving around the other day and I got to thinking about December 13, 2012. On that day Adam Lanza was just another troubled 20 year-old kid living in his divorced mother's basement and playing ultra-violent video games up in Connecticut. He was "odd," or "troubled" but people didn't really expect that he would do anything really drastic. But as we all know, he did do something on the very next day that brought him to national prominence.

 

More relevantly, up until the first week of February, 1982, Seiji Katagiri was just a 35 year-old DC-8 captain for Japan Airlines. He was kind of "troubled," in that he was granted a month's leave from JAL in 1980 for a "psychosomatic disorder." But it must not have been too serious for they let him back on flying status. Airline pilots are, after all, highly monitored in many respects.

 

But on February 9, 1982, while on approach to the Tokyo airport, Katagiri yanked the two inboard engines into reverse and pushed forward on the yoke, intending to crash the plane into Tokyo Bay. It did crash, killing 24 of the 174 people onboard. Only the quick, heroic actions of the First Officer and Flight Engineer prevented what would surely have been a worse disaster. (Katagiri had a sweater on. He took off his tie and then hopped in the first raft away from the wreckage, making it to the hospital before someone found out, "Heyyyyy, you're the CAPTAIN of that plane!!! Heyyyyyy."

 

Then, more recently. This one ended better. Up until March 27, 2012, Clayton Osbon had just been another Airbus captain at JetBlue. The airline's CEO said he knew Osbon personally...called him a "consummate professional." Then...something snapped and Osbon went crazy. In flight. The copilot locked him out of the cockpit and passengers had to subdue him.

 

We don't like to talk about mental illness. Even when we see it we don't like to admit it. We tend to excuse "bad behavior" as not being anything really serious. Since most of us are not clinical psychologists or psychiatrists, we feel that we're not able to make qualitiative judgments on another person's sanity (except when reading their blogposts or posts on forums like this). To even bring up another person's mental state is treading on some very thin ice. How do we know when someone's about to snap? We don't.

 

Until it's too late. Then everyone goes, "Yeaaahhhh, I knew that Lanza kid was crazy. I told you so!" Or, "I knew that Osbon had a few screws loose...I knew it!" But at the same time they throw their arms up and go, "WHOA! I couldn't have done anything about it. I'm no psychiatrist, you know!"

 

Along those lines, I think that atheists are, generally, insane. Because holding so strongly to such a belief that there can be no Creator because the existence of one cannot be scientifically proven is simply illogical and irrational, qualities that are dangerous in a pilot - and we are ultimately talking about aviation here. Remember, neither can you prove that a Creator does *not* exist. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

So. Call me a "bad Christian" and because of that, if you need an excuse, dismiss Christianity entirely. "Bob's a bad Christian so THERE IS NO GOD!!" Tell me I'm on a "high horse" and you hope I get thrown off (nice!). Tell me you don't respect me. (Oh, like that matters. You? Not even your dog respects *you*.) Tell me that other pilots' public behavior and actions are none of my or anyone else's damn business. Tell me that nobody cares. Let's go back in time and you can tell me that Adam Lanza is just another troubled-but-harmless kid who'll never amount to much.

 

Whatever.

 

If you're an atheist and your life is just peachy, I'm happy for you (I still with you weren't a pilot though). But if you're an atheist and your life is a mess...one calamity after another...then maybe you should look for an alternative. Maybe the universe is trying to tell you something.

[Rotortramp]

I'm now convinced this is an elaborate April fools joke. Well played sir well played.

 

[Rob1237051]

All of you so-called atheists in this thread have convinced me more than ever that my premise in my original post here is correct. Very simply, 100% consensus among the Church of Atheism or not, all of the atheists I've ever met ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE that there is no Creator. They get up on their high horse (higher than mine), hold a hand up with index finger extended and proclaim, "GOD DOES NOT EXIST!" They choose to believe this and do not allow for even the remote possibility that they could be wrong. Most of you respondents above, while claiming otherwise have just proven the point.

 

Okay fine. Believe what you want. But it's stupid.

 

Oh dear, is that more "atheist bashing?" Okay. Is it "unChristianlike?" Okay. Does that make me "not a Christian?" Umm. Maybe it makes me a "bad Christian?" Okay.

 

Look, stomp your feet all you want...hold your breath until you turn blue if you like. Insist that there is NOTHING else in the universe higher than a human...that there was no intelligent design in our being. Fine! But you're stupid. You're unintelligent. You're narrow-minded...perhaps closed-minded. Are these the qualities that we like to see in pilots?? Not me. I'm sorry to have to share the sky with some of you who really need to open your eyes and look around. And if that offends you, too bad! Atheism is not rational; it's not sane.

 

Agnostics, now those I can understand and abide. But atheists? Come on...get real. Oh, and "that woman" to whom we keep referring proudly announces that she is an ATHEIST. (I think that some of YOU people need to know more about theists, agnostics and atheists and need to stop lecturing *me* about what you think atheism is. Some of you don't even know what you believe.)

 

I find it funny...I mean I really laugh at those who cannot have a discussion about Creation without bringing religion into it. I try to keep religion out of my discussions. I talk about faith in a Creator (whom many call "God"). That is all. Even you fallen-away Catholics: Does this negate ALL of your faith? Does the fact that you don't consider yourself a Catholic anymore mean that ALL of your spirituality is now invalid? "The Catholic Church is wrong SO THERE IS NO GOD!!" Umm, yeeeaaaahhhhh, that makes sense...not.

 

There are thousands of religions (some say as many as 11,000 subsets). Many religions are "non-Christian" while still believing in creation. You could say atheism is a form of "religion." Well forget religion. F*ck it all. Why can't you just allow the possibility that we were Created?

 

And if that is the case, then there was probably a Creator. So just acknowledge that there is a Creator and that He loves you and leave it at that. What's so hard about that? Why is that soooooo difficult for some of you to admit? Why do some of you put so much effort into *not* believing it? Just so you can think you're smarter and better than everyone else? I truly think that's the case - from the way some of you insult people of faith.

 

Now, me personally, I do take it a step further and believe that the Creator sent a manifestation of himself in human form as an example to show us how to live. We typically call this example Christ. You don't have to believe in Christ; that's up to you. But those who do follow Christ's teachings call themselves "Christians." It's that simple. Are Christians perfect? Of course not. Are some Christians bitter, unhappy people? Undoubtedly, but only if their faith is not strong. Because Christians who really, really believe in Christ's existence God's everlasting love can never be truly unhappy. Uh-oh, is this Christian-bashing? Goddammit Bob, is there anyone you WON'T bash??

 

Those atheists who deny there is a Creator (and ergo that there was no Christ) have no basis for their actions toward other humans other than some sort of innate, vague feeling of right and wrong of which they cannot explain the source and that no other species in the planet seems to exhibit. But if you deny Christ, your feelings and actions toward other people can fairly be described as "unChristian" and totally random. Stop arguing about this with me already - it is what it is!

 

And PLEASE stop assuming that I think everyone who isn't a Christian leads an unhappy, miserable life. That's not what I think and I've never said that. If YOU lead a happy Godless, amoral and immoral life...then wonderful. More power to you. Case in point...

 

"Counterrotate" said:

 

 

Wow. But how sad! And how stupid. How very, very stupid. I'm sure your wife would just jump for joy to learn that you don't believe that she loves you...because of course she cannot prove it scientifically. Oh, she can demonstrate it by her actions, but can she really prove it beyond your "shadow of a doubt" demand? Obviously not. So should we call her? Can we? Man, I'd love to listen to *that* conversation! "Sorry honey, I know you SAY you love me, but I just cannot believe it - in fact I'll never believe it. Don't feel bad. I hope you understand - nothing personal!" Heh.

 

And I'm sure your kids would be equally thrilled to know that they cannot actually prove that daddy loves them, moreover that he would never even attempt to because such an endeavor would be scientifically foolish. "So kids, you'll just have to take daddy's word that I love you. You don't have to believe it...just as I don't really believe that mommy loves me...and I really don't expect you to have faith in anything that cannot be proven in a court of law or laboratory. Go to sleep now...sleep tight!" Now THERE'S a little bedtime story I'd love to hear. "Suzie, did daddy just tell us that he doesn't expect us to believe that he loves us because there's no such thing as faith??" "That's right, Tommy, now go to sleep."

 

Okay don't believe in love. It's so not scientifically provable.

 

But if you *can* believe in love, then why can't you believe in a Creator? Faith: It's not such a far-fetched concept.

 

Now, about this woman pilot who goes around publicizing that she's an atheist and blogging about all of the bad things in her life including her impending divorce. Avnut (who acts all high and mighty like he's the patriarch of our little family forum here) says it's "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!" Well...why not? SHE is the one who writes the blog...who puts it all out there. She makes it our business. Are we just supposed to ignore her? Umm, isn't that the OPPOSITE of why people publish blogs? I haven't even written half of the "behind the scenes" crap that I know - I only comment on what she prints in her blog. There's a lot I *could* write about if I truly had a vendetta or was obsessed with her as some of you think. But I don't. Suffice to say that there is always more to a story than you get from one side.

 

If you were going to take advice from someone in aviation, shouldn't you know at least a LITTLE about that person? She puts herself out there as some big aviation expert. She is not - she's no more of an expert than I am. More than that, we can legitmately call her judgment into question due to some of the other wacky things she writes. She seems kind of "out there." Does this mean I think she's a raving lunatic who should be immediately institutionalized? Don't be silly, of course not. Some perfectly sane people have, um, "episodes" of craziness just as even some of the craziest people on the face of this earth have periods when they seem perfectly lucid and sane.

 

Unlike Counterrotate above who says he is deliriously happy without any of this God nonsense, I just think "that woman" could improve her life dramatically if she'd just open her mind up a little bit and accept the possiblity that she could actually be wrong about some things. Like God. But no...

 

I was driving around the other day and I got to thinking about December 13, 2012. On that day Adam Lanza was just another troubled 20 year-old kid living in his divorced mother's basement and playing ultra-violent video games up in Connecticut. He was "odd," or "troubled" but people didn't really expect that he would do anything really drastic. But as we all know, he did do something on the very next day that brought him to national prominence.

 

More relevantly, up until the first week of February, 1982, Seiji Katagiri was just a 35 year-old DC-8 captain for Japan Airlines. He was kind of "troubled," in that he was granted a month's leave from JAL in 1980 for a "psychosomatic disorder." But it must not have been too serious for they let him back on flying status. Airline pilots are, after all, highly monitored in many respects.

 

But on February 9, 1982, while on approach to the Tokyo airport, Katagiri yanked the two inboard engines into reverse and pushed forward on the yoke, intending to crash the plane into Tokyo Bay. It did crash, killing 24 of the 174 people onboard. Only the quick, heroic actions of the First Officer and Flight Engineer prevented what would surely have been a worse disaster. (Katagiri had a sweater on. He took off his tie and then hopped in the first raft away from the wreckage, making it to the hospital before someone found out, "Heyyyyy, you're the CAPTAIN of that plane!!! Heyyyyyy."

 

Then, more recently. This one ended better. Up until March 27, 2012, Clayton Osbon had just been another Airbus captain at JetBlue. The airline's CEO said he knew Osbon personally...called him a "consummate professional." Then...something snapped and Osbon went crazy. In flight. The copilot locked him out of the cockpit and passengers had to subdue him.

 

We don't like to talk about mental illness. Even when we see it we don't like to admit it. We tend to excuse "bad behavior" as not being anything really serious. Since most of us are not clinical psychologists or psychiatrists, we feel that we're not able to make qualitiative judgments on another person's sanity (except when reading their blogposts or posts on forums like this). To even bring up another person's mental state is treading on some very thin ice. How do we know when someone's about to snap? We don't.

 

Until it's too late. Then everyone goes, "Yeaaahhhh, I knew that Lanza kid was crazy. I told you so!" Or, "I knew that Osbon had a few screws loose...I knew it!" But at the same time they throw their arms up and go, "WHOA! I couldn't have done anything about it. I'm no psychiatrist, you know!"

 

Along those lines, I think that atheists are, generally, insane. Because holding so strongly to such a belief that there can be no Creator because the existence of one cannot be scientifically proven is simply illogical and irrational, qualities that are dangerous in a pilot - and we are ultimately talking about aviation here. Remember, neither can you prove that a Creator does *not* exist. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

So. Call me a "bad Christian" and because of that, if you need an excuse, dismiss Christianity entirely. "Bob's a bad Christian so THERE IS NO GOD!!" Tell me I'm on a "high horse" and you hope I get thrown off (nice!). Tell me you don't respect me. (Oh, like that matters. You? Not even your dog respects *you*.) Tell me that other pilots' public behavior and actions are none of my or anyone else's damn business. Tell me that nobody cares. Let's go back in time and you can tell me that Adam Lanza is just another troubled-but-harmless kid who'll never amount to much.

 

Whatever.

 

If you're an atheist and your life is just peachy, I'm happy for you (I still with you weren't a pilot though). But if you're an atheist and your life is a mess...one calamity after another...then maybe you should look for an alternative. Maybe the universe is trying to tell you something.

 

I just quoted the longest post ever. You're all welcome.

[Rotortramp]

*delete*

[Rotortramp]

*delete*

 

My computer goofed, sorry for the multiple posts.

 

Not too derail this insightful thread, but is there any way to delete a post?

[Helipilot PTK]

This thread is quite sad, people get so upset when you say you are a Christian now days. They point to all your "flaws" and say "your not a good Christian" etc. A Christian is just as susceptible to sinning as any other human being, it's just Christians are suppose to realize what they did was wrong and repent. America has become a nation where everyone has to be "politically correct", and that is what is destroying this once great country. People have trouble facing the fact that America was formed on Christianity, the founders never said you had to believe in Christianity, but that is what America is based on! If you don't like it to bad! It just amazes me that all the post against christianity have the most likes...

[pilot#476398]

Christians have been running things for almost 2000 years, its time for someone else to give it a go!

[C of G]

I don't think anyone here is upset when someone says they're a Christian, but one guy sure is upset when you say you're an athiest. Even calls them mentally ill and then goes on a near nonsensical tirade about several people of faith that are mentally ill, (ironically two had gone off on religious tirades at some point in their lives.)

 

 

Ultimately, does it make a difference in anyone's life if a complete stranger "likes" a post you agree or disagree with?

Edited February 27, 2013 by C of G

[DS_HMMR]

Ultimately, does it make a difference in anyone's life if a complete stranger "likes" a post you agree or disagree with?

 

YOU SIR, just ruined the Internets!!!

[Rob1237051]

Mark Zuckerberg just shed a single tear.

[terminal_velo]

A lot of your post is nonsense, but I'll reply to a few things to help you with some of some of your misconceptions.

 

Look, stomp your feet all you want...hold your breath until you turn blue if you like. Insist that there is NOTHING else in the universe higher than a human...that there was no intelligent design in our being. Fine! But you're stupid. You're unintelligent. You're narrow-minded...perhaps closed-minded. Are these the qualities that we like to see in pilots?? Not me. I'm sorry to have to share the sky with some of you who really need to open your eyes and look around. And if that offends you, too bad! Atheism is not rational; it's not sane.

 

Have your "faith" if you want, but if you are asserting that a belief in god is based in logic, and furthermore, more rational than an atheist viewpoint, you're speaking complete nonsense. The whole idea of "faith" is that it does not require logic, reason, or evidence.

 

Either you have a logical reason to believe in god, or you have faith. If you think you have a logical reason, let's talk about it, we'll try to prove each other wrong. If your reason is faith, well the discussion is practically over. Faith is the blind, unjustified acceptance of something as fact. It can't, by definition, be argued for.

 

There are thousands of religions (some say as many as 11,000 subsets). Many religions are "non-Christian" while still believing in creation. You could say atheism is a form of "religion." Well forget religion. F*ck it all. Why can't you just allow the possibility that we were Created?

 

Why? Because there's absolutely nothing that supports that we were "Created" (in the supernatural sense).

 

Those atheists who deny there is a Creator (and ergo that there was no Christ) have no basis for their actions toward other humans other than some sort of innate, vague feeling of right and wrong of which they cannot explain the source and that no other species in the planet seems to exhibit. But if you deny Christ, your feelings and actions toward other people can fairly be described as "unChristian" and totally random. Stop arguing about this with me already - it is what it is!

 

Simply put, you are incorrect. This is why several of us are lecturing you. You do not understand atheists. I won't accuse you of being too stupid to understand atheists, but based on what you're writing, you do not understand atheists. So, if your view of atheism is based on a lack of understanding, and you're not interested in fixing that lack of understanding, than you really have no place to argue. You're simply being a bigot.

 

And PLEASE stop assuming that I think everyone who isn't a Christian leads an unhappy, miserable life. That's not what I think and I've never said that. If YOU lead a happy Godless, amoral and immoral life...then wonderful. More power to you. Case in point...

 

"Counterrotate" said:

 

 

 

....

 

But if you *can* believe in love, then why can't you believe in a Creator? Faith: It's not such a far-fetched concept.

 

 

I thought your scenarios about family and love were funny. Honestly—I'm not being facetious—it made me laugh. It's unrealistic and doesn't accurately portray the situation, but it was a comical either way.

 

Love is not a difficult concept, I'm not sure why you're making it into one. It means different things to different people, but it's simply a sentiment or a feeling. You don't have to have faith in something supernatural to believe that animals (including humans) can exhibit emotion. Just because emotion isn't tangible doesn't mean it doesn't have a scientific explanation.

 

Remember, neither can you prove that a Creator does *not* exist. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

"You can't prove God doesn't exist" is an invalid argument for theism, but a common one nonetheless.

 

You can't prove that unicorns don't exist. You can't prove that Zeus doesn't exist. You can't prove that the other 10,000 gods that have been created don't exist. You can't prove that three headed aliens don't exist. You can't prove that Elvis isn't alive and living on some planet some where. But, even though you can't prove those things, you probably don't believe they're true, because you don't have any reason to.

 

THAT is what atheism is about: I don't believe in a god, because I've seen no reason to.

 

You are the one making claims that are not supported by evidence. Therefore, you're the one who has the burden of proof if you think your claim should be accepted as truth.

 

In all honesty, your vitriolic posts take away from your credibility and it projects the image that you have no justification for your viewpoint and are only trolling. I'm willing to discuss your topic, if you are, but so far all you've done is call other peoples' worldview stupid, with no explanation as to why. That is a tactic I haven't seen since kindergarten.

[Trans Lift]

I was created! My mother and father had a good old time, some boom boom went down and looky here, nine months later I popped out!

 

Same way most of us were created I think

[avbug]

Why? Because there's absolutely nothing that supports that we were "Created" (in the supernatural sense).

 

A great deal supports that perspective, but this is not the forum in which to have that conversation.

[Counterrotate]

Terminal Velocity couldn't have put it much better, but I would like to add that making statements about atheists not making good helicopter pilots (or at least that's what I take it you meant) is absurd. Absolutely absurd. Some of the best pilots I have ever met are atheists. Some of the greatest PEOPLE IN GENERAL that I have met, are atheists. Your summary of what my relationship with my wife and kids is plain offensive. You are taking this to a whole new level there. You make it sound as though I am not human because I am an atheist. I can assure you, nothing is further from the truth. Moreover, you also seem to assume that I think I have all the answers and there also you could not be more wrong. I know only enough to know that I know very little (I know that reads kind of funny). But at least I am humble enough to admit that. What's more I do not discount the possibility of God, gods, deities, spirits. To discount those possibilities would go against my paradigm. I just think they are so outlandish and unlikely based on what I consider verifiable facts that they are not worth believing.

 

Lastly, I could care less what you believe. I am sure that you are, for the most part, a good person, probably a likeable guy, and a damn good pilot to boot. Your religion plays little role in my opinion of you, UNLESS.... Unless you make it an issue like you are now. Remember, atheists did not start the current argument. A Christian did. No one ever said flat out that you are "wrong", even though you have said that about us. There is a very big assumption behind that accusation. How many times in my youth did I make assumptions and turn out wrong? A lot. And it was often very embarrassing. I learned my lesson. So go ahead and lash out if you want to. Wear yourself out. Hoot and holler all you like about zombie robot atheists and their crappy marriages and closet depression and how they make awful pilots. But don't expect anyone to take you seriously ever again.

[Azhigher]

I can't help but feel like you guys are feeding the troll here... Maybe it's just me.

[pilot#476398]

You can't prove that three headed aliens don't exist

 

Actually it was three tits,...and I have faith that she exists somewhere in the cosmos!

[Counterrotate]

I can't help but feel like you guys are feeding the troll here... Maybe it's just me.

 

I suppose that would make me a troll too, now wouldn't it?

[SemperGumby]

And now for something completely different.

 

 

Trololo!

[gary-mike]

WOW! It is evident that it has been a long winter, cabin fever has taken hold of many brains.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Has the Jesus Nut come off the forum cause it is starting to get a little weird in here.........