"The Outpost" book question

[Wally]

Good book, not Jon Krakauer, or Cornelius Ryan, but a Mark Bowden but a story apparently honestly and capably told.

Anyhow, the author, Jake Tapper, is weak on aviation. To the point, he mentions in passing that some resupply flights to Combat Outpost Keating were flown by civilian contractors. Is that factual? If so, was it common? Is it something that's not discussed, sort of like Air America in Southeast Asia and the CIA connection?

Edited March 21, 2013 by Wally

[Lindsey]

Finished that book about a month ago. Very, very good. Highly recommended to everyone.

[Velocity173]

Good book, not Jon Krakauer, or Cornelius Ryan, but a Mark Bowden but a story apparently honestly and capably told.

Anyhow, the author, Jake Tapper, is weak on aviation. To the point, he mentions in passing that some resupply flights to Combat Outpost Keating were flown by civilian contractors. Is that factual? If so, was it common? Is it something that's not discussed, sort of like Air America in Southeast Asia and the CIA connection?

 

Civilian contractors over there out number the military. They're everywhere. On the aviation side you have many "Blackwater" type companies that do resupplies and passenger transport. Some are more specialized than others but I wouldn't call any of it "Air America" stuff. Everyone knows they're there and they aren't taking part in any offensive operations. All they do is pick up missions that we didn't have time for.

 

Problem is they do single ship stuff. I go down and chalk 2 will pick me up in 5 minutes. They go down, and we'll scratch our heads in the TOC and wonder who's gonna go out and get them. I guess that's why they get paid the big bucks.

[SBuzzkill]

Yep, and not all of them are even Blackwater types. There are some companies over there who have built their names on logging and lift operations all over the world, combat zone or not.

[UnitedWeStand111]

Kbr, and Itt are two big ones. Met a guy from kbr who was making 170k over there flying in the back of blackhawks. He must've been someone important because he was telling me he can get rides in the back seats of F15s. Two of his friends did it, he said they haven't been right since! Too many G's (6-7) for someone not used to it I guess. Thought it was interesting. Also said their 60 guys make $300k+, but maybe he was lying.

[copterdoctor64]

There are many different companies contracted both FW and RW in Iraq and Afghanistan for DOD and DoS. In all of the months (read: years) that I have spent overseas I can honestly say that KBR or ITT was not one of them. Those companies have a grip on alot of the loggie and basops type contracts (LOGCAP IV, IT services, etc.).

 

If a guy from KBR was making 170k flying in the back of Blackhawks he was a PAX and on the way to fix a leaky toilet.

 

And the F-15 thing is a stretch.. To say the least.

[2ndGen]

Some of the civs flying us around in RC-east, we're making 3k a head moved from point a to b. They made that as a crew, so split between a couple of pilots and a couple crew members, gas and ac maint.

 

[Velocity173]

Kbr, and Itt are two big ones. Met a guy from kbr who was making 170k over there flying in the back of blackhawks. He must've been someone important because he was telling me he can get rides in the back seats of F15s. Two of his friends did it, he said they haven't been right since! Too many G's (6-7) for someone not used to it I guess. Thought it was interesting. Also said their 60 guys make $300k+, but maybe he was lying.

 

Yeah I think the guy was lying to ya. Never heard of a KBR "60 guy." two pilots, two crew chiefs / gunners and possibly a radio operator for C2. You can bet almost every contractor there has flown in a 60 at one time or another, but it was as a passenger and not a resupply mission. Majority of resupplies are done by truck through Pakistan. The few mountain camp resupplies I did, I never once had any civilians on board. KBR fixes showers and feeds us food...at a far higher rate that what it actually costs.

 

Flying in the back of an F-15? Probably not. I knew only one non WSO who was offered a ride and that was only because he was an Army one star who worked with the base commander (Air Force).

 

Hopefully this guy you met saved his money because those contracts are starting to dry up. They rode the wave and made money off of war. The "Military Industrial Complex."

[stearmann4]

Yep, you were getting snowed. The contract operators aren't making that kind of money, especially guys flying in the back. With a few exceptions, RW pilots for the best companies are making less than $200K for a year contract. There's also a sizeable difference between some of the ISR (FW guys) and helicopter pilots.

 

The biggest problem as some have forecasted, is that you never know when the contract is going to be terminated, and thusly, your job.

 

I also watched in the TOC several years ago as the big heads argued who was going to fly to a 12,000' mountain top to retrieve the crew from a BW CASA 212 that had crashed, argued about it for 3 days until all they recovered were 2 dead crewman hugging each other under a blanket in the cabin.

 

Keep that I mind when you think flying civilian contracts overseas is a good idea.

[electron_si]

Yep, you were getting snowed. The contract operators aren't making that kind of money, especially guys flying in the back. With a few exceptions, RW pilots for the best companies are making less than $200K for a year contract. There's also a sizeable difference between some of the ISR (FW guys) and helicopter pilots.

 

The biggest problem as some have forecasted, is that you never know when the contract is going to be terminated, and thusly, you job.

 

I also watched in the TOC several years ago as the big heads argued who was going to fly to a 12,000' mountain top to retrieve the crew from a BW CASA 212 that had crashed, argued about it for 3 days until all they recovered were 2 dead crewman hugging each other under a blanket in the cabin.

 

Keep that I mind when you think flying civilian contracts overseas is a good idea.

I think the only way I would go over there as contract would be if I was staying on the FOB doing aircraft maintenace, in fact I looked into it before I got a flight school slot as some of my buddies made really good money over there working for L3/Raytheon.

 

 

There is no way I would be out there flying over the wire as a civilian, I just wouldn't take that chance of going down.