Jump to content

WOFT vs. ARNG Aviation


Recommended Posts

Good evening everyone,

 

I am currently a sophomore in college and non-contracted cadet in Army ROTC. I am very interested in flying for the Army after college and had couple of questions regarding options. Looking at how I have done so far in college, I am pretty confident my GPA (I am aware this is not the only thing that counts) is not going to be high enough to get branched Aviation in the active Army.

 

One of the cadre members at my ROTC battalion is also a Operations officer at a National Guard aviation battalion and has been helping me look at different routes and helping me try to see what route is best. He has really made the idea of flying for the guard an attractive one, although not ideal, since I won't be flying full time. I am a management major and I'm pretty confident I would be able to find myself a full time job if I did wind up going the guard route. I understand that the guard hires technicians (but that they are mostly experienced WOs?). I also understand this route is not guaranteed.

 

The other route we have discussed is, at the conclusion of this semester, leave the ROTC program and try for the WOFT program once I graduate (everyone I have talked to agrees that having a college degree is a must). I understand from browsing other forums that this can be quite a lengthy process, but if flying is your true goal, it is well worth it. While the idea of flying full time is more attractive than the part time flying with the guard, this seems to be a bit more of a riskier option since there is really no certainty with it.

 

I have gotten just about all of my information from either the aviation officer or from reading forums, so if any of my information is incorrect, I apologize!

 

A little bit of information about me:

 

GPA: 3.46

APFT: 285 (as of a week ago at a ROTC pt test)

I have not taken the ASVAB or SIFT tests.

I do not have any irregular health conditions or vision problems, so I can't imagine why I would fail the medical, but I'm sure a lot of the people who fail it say that as well.

My dad also owns his own helicopter business, and I have 40 hours of flight time in an MD500/OH-6 airframe. He knows several Army aviators and I am planning on meeting with a couple of them to discuss the above options

 

So my main question for you guys (especially any Army aviators out there, knowing what you know), is it worth it to take the risk to fly full time via the WOFT program or should I and go pursue a commission in the National Guard?

 

I am just trying to get some more opinions on the matter and would appreciate any sort of inputs.

 

Thanks!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The operations officer you are talking to should be a pretty good source of information, so pick his brain as much as you can. If you really want to fly I recommend going the active route and try your best to branch aviation through ROTC. If you want to pursue a civilian career while flying try the Guard route. There is a catch to this though, flying slots in the Guard are very selective and there are only a few slots to compete for per year.

 

I left active duty Marines to go to college and attempt to put in a WOFT packet as a civilian. I saw the Guard route as more appealing so I re-enlisted into the Guard and just submitted my Warrant packet two weeks ago. The best advice I can give you is to explore each option and talk to as many aviators as you can. You'll know where you want to go once you get the ball rolling. I turned down a chance to go to OCS this year since I faced the possibility of never getting aviation after commission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick responses!

 

My ultimate goal would be to fly full time, either for the Army or on the civilian side. That being said, I also want to serve my country in any way I can. I really am tempted to aim for the WOFT, but the uncertainty of it is the only cause of hesitation. I am just worried that if I don't get selected, I will have waisted an opportuinity to commission via ROTC.

 

I attend school in South Carolina as an out of state student. The ROTC program here has a great recruiting tool that gives MS1 and MS2 cadets an in state tuition waiver for the first two years. Unfortunately, that disappears when a cadet contracts. In order for me to be able to attend college here, I need some sort of financial assistance. So if I do decide to go the WOFT route I will probably have to transfer to a college back in Virginia. EVen if I do elect to stick with ROTC all the way through commissioning I will need some sort of scholarship (Army or GRFD) in order to be able to attend as an out of state student.

 

Another offer my dad is that if I receive either of the two ROTC scholarships I can use a portion of what would have been my college funds for flight training.

 

I have browsed many forums regarding the WOFT and most posts I have read say that if you don't get selected on your first board, that many times you will get selected by a later board. Is this fairly common?

 

Thanks again for any inputs!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are guaranteed two shots at WOFT when submitting your packet. If not picked up on the first board, you will automatically (read: you don't have to update anything unless you choose to do so) get reboarded on the next board. If not picked up again (twice non-select), then you must wait 6 months to resubmit and have to redo your battalion board and anything else that may have expired in the interim. Rinse and repeat until selected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Helobuss--another thing:

 

You do NOT need college to get selected. A degree will make you more competitive but there are a fair number that get selected without a degree. The board will see that you are in college and pursuing a degree and that is "good enough" to put in a packet right now. Why not? Put in a packet before you become a contracted cadet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lindsey- Thanks for the information.

 

I tried earlier this year to get in touch with a recruiter to try and start a packet. I used the recruiters listed on the Warrant Officer recruiting website. They came back saying that they only work with current service members. I would assume then that the route to go is a standard recuiter? I've heard they can be stubborn when it comes to WOFT because it doesn't count for their quota.

 

My parents are pretty concerned about the fact that if I do get selected that my college career goes on hold. Do most WOs who have partial college time go back and finish?

 

Thanks for your help!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lindsey- Thanks for the information.

 

I tried earlier this year to get in touch with a recruiter to try and start a packet. I used the recruiters listed on the Warrant Officer recruiting website. They came back saying that they only work with current service members. I would assume then that the route to go is a standard recuiter? I've heard they can be stubborn when it comes to WOFT because it doesn't count for their quota.

 

My parents are pretty concerned about the fact that if I do get selected that my college career goes on hold. Do most WOs who have partial college time go back and finish?

 

Thanks for your help!

That's correct - unfortunately, the Warrant Officer recruiters only work with active duty service members. Us civilians have to go to a regular recruiter. The key is (and I can't stress this enough) to call around and "select" a recruiter based on his or her willingness to work with you on submitting a WOFT packet, and a WOFT packet only. If they try to get you to go enlisted, politely hang up and call another office. This process will be worth your while. I didn't follow my own advice and went to the closest recruiter--and got stonewalled for more than four months. Now I drive an hour away to a different station, and I have 5 recruiters working on my packet, 2 of whom are station commanders.

 

I can't comment on the likelihood of finishing college while on Active Duty, as I'm still just a civilian. Hopefully others will chime in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lindsey- Thanks for the information.

 

I tried earlier this year to get in touch with a recruiter to try and start a packet. I used the recruiters listed on the Warrant Officer recruiting website. They came back saying that they only work with current service members. I would assume then that the route to go is a standard recuiter? I've heard they can be stubborn when it comes to WOFT because it doesn't count for their quota.

 

My parents are pretty concerned about the fact that if I do get selected that my college career goes on hold. Do most WOs who have partial college time go back and finish?

 

Thanks for your help!

Although I didn't, you have plenty of time to finish. Almost all of my friends have Embry Riddle listed on their FB. Not sure how many actually graduated though. It's mostly online stuff but plenty of satellite campuses around the Army. Rucker is probably the easiest place to get it done. 7-8 hr days and no deployments or FTXs.

 

It didn't hurt me professionally but 4 yrs at Rucker I should've gotten my degree finished. I used being a section leader as an excuse for not finishing. Obviously as competitive as things are nowadays, a degree is more important than ever at getting promoted. Get it done.

Edited by Velocity173
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard they can be stubborn when it comes to WOFT because it doesn't count for their quota.

 

As far as I know it still counts, but it's no better than enlisting a guy in the infantry and about 100x the work. Either way you're correct that it's hard to find a recruiter who will help. Many of them don't even know the WOFT program exists for civilians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I know it still counts, but it's no better than enlisting a guy in the infantry and about 100x the work. Either way you're correct that it's hard to find a recruiter who will help. Many of them don't even know the WOFT program exists for civilians.

 

That's good to hear, at least they would have some motivation.

 

I found a recruiter about 30 minutes away from me who said that he does a lot of work with WOFT applicants. I will be heading in to his office in a week or so when I get home. I live in the DC area so I don't think I will have too much toruble finding another if he doesn't work out.

 

ftxag76- Thanks for the advice. I may take you up on the offer of the PM later on in this process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My parents are pretty concerned about the fact that if I do get selected that my college career goes on hold. Do most WOs who have partial college time go back and finish?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Most warrant officers get some sort of college done because it helps with promotion later on. Personally, I didn't waste time with college when I found out I could fly for the Army without a degree. I say waste time because anything I would have studied back then would never have seen any use. Now I can go back to school, afford it, and study something that I can apply to my post Army goals.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take/leave my own .02 cents... Trust no recruiter. Ever. You do your own research. Trust me there is a reg/fm/milper message about everything. It's not hard to find. When you find it, your recruiter won't believe you or will say it doesn't apply to you. This is when you need to keep digging. Honestly, I don't care about anything aviation. I am an active duty Army CPT with prior enlisted AF experience. My husband (civilian/prior AF) is up for this May board and it has been a wild ride. Every recruiter in El Paso tried to deceive him and the information we dug up. Especially in regards to the SIFT. (The El Paso MEPS got one hell of as ass-chewing from HRC.) I am intimately familiar with the way the chain of command works and we worked it. When you have found a recruiter that is willing to work with you, still don't trust him. If he tells you something that your gut is telling you is bad info, call someone else. Not necessarily higher in the CoC, but someone who may know more. There are plenty of phone numbers out there. Verify, verify, verify.

 

As for college... I already had my BA when I enlisted. But as far as the Army goes you either have a degree or you don't. There's no "I got halfway." Not sure exactly about warrants, but you will need it to promote. (i.e. I won't make MAJ without a masters.) My husband didn't have his degree when he enlisted but he got out and used the GI Bill to complete his degree. He also has his private pilot's license. Anyway, when I commissioned they were allowing candidates into OCS without a degree with the obligation that they had to finish the remainder of their degree prior to their CPT board. Well, 4 yrs later and EXTREMELY high ops tempo for myself and my peers (PL, XO, CMD and deployments) several of them are still struggling to find time to finish their degrees. If they can’t finish, they won’t even be considered on the promotion board. Point is… DON’T assume that you will have time to finish your degree.

 

Lastly, all the above mentioned is exactly why I don’t support my husband joining my ranks as a commissioned officer. Literally, it is all power point and meetings. He wants to fly. I do everything earthly possible to support that. If you do go the commissioned route and serve time as a PL, XO, or CMD there are many organizations that help you maximize your military leadership and transition you into a leader in America’s top companies.

 

I know this is not the usually sentiment expressed on this forum, but I’m seeing a few different sides of it and many go-arounds with recruiters. Good luck to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's pretty accurate. It's not required but when all your peers have degrees... You get the picture. The thing is, most guys go out and do those online deals where they already give some credit for flight school. So in the time you have between making CW2 and being looked at for 3 it should be no problem to complete one of those if that's what you want.

 

If you want to go to a more traditional school and get a degree that way I don't think it's possible.

Edited by SBuzzkill
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do they weight being in ROTC at all? I will have been in it for two years by the time I apply. I was cadet of the month and cadet of the year if they look at any sort of awards.

 

SemperVolans- Thanks! I will keep that in mind as I begin this process.

 

I guess the best plan would be to keep continuing on college and getting as many credits as I can and applying for WOFT while enrolled in college in the chance I get picked up before I get a degree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd assume they do. I mean wouldn't they. Also if you are dead set on Army aviation, I'd wait till you are a senior in college to apply. Reason being ( and this is only my opinion) you only have 2 shots at WOFT. If you apply too early and are not selected and you still have 2+ yrs of school, you just might be a non- select again for not having a degree. It is better to apply in your senior yr.

 

Of course I do not think they disclose why or why not one is selected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd assume they do. I mean wouldn't they. Also if you are dead set on Army aviation, I'd wait till you are a senior in college to apply. Reason being ( and this is only my opinion) you only have 2 shots at WOFT. If you apply too early and are not selected and you still have 2+ yrs of school, you just might be a non- select again for not having a degree. It is better to apply in your senior yr.

 

Of course I do not think they disclose why or why not one is selected.

I disagree. He has nothing to lose by applying now. If he's twice non-select then he only has to wait 6 months to reapply and get 2 more chances. It's not like you only get 2 chances for your entire life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...