The First of its Kind

[pilot#476398]

Looking at the job posts today, what did I find?,...an INTERNSHIP!

 

Now before you get all excited, its with Old City Helicopters, and although they do say they "promote from within" this is a company that seems to post a job ad two to three times a year, so...?

 

Does anyone know anything about this company, like;

How many ships do they have?

How many pilots do they have?

Why does it seem like they go through pilots so frequently?

 

I have read a couple of posts from people saying, "my CFI worked for them." This sounds like when their pilots leave, its not to move up, but to go back to teaching? Which means either the pay is unbearably low, or the hour build up is too slow,...or both!

 

Does anyone have any first hand experience with this company?

[JCBigler]

Is that this Old City Helicopters?

 

Weird, I was JUST reeading a post about them on another forum. Not about the company as an employer or opratetor, per se, but by someone who wanted to take one of their tours around Tampa.

 

[RagMan]

I don't know what kind of "tour" you call flying over water the entire time, but to each their own. Also, not sure about the "5 minute tour" part of it :/

[Nearly Retired]

Well apparently Chucky and Josh liked it...

 

Hey, my first-ever helicopter ride was a little six-minute circuit in a Hughes 300 from the W30th Street heliport in Manhattan. It was my 13th birthday. I remember it like it was yesterday. It did not seem horribly short. I'd been interested in helicopters anyway, and that ride incited a passion for these crazy machines that has not yet abated.

 

As for the Old City short "tour," some people just dig being in a helicopter! Personally, I wish Trent (Old City's pilot) dressed a little more appropriately as a professional pilot. Would it have killed him to wear a white, short-sleeve "aviator" type of collared shirt instead of that Monster (or whatever it was) t-shirt? Meh- kids these days...what are you gonna do? At least he didn't appear to have any visible tats or piercings...thank the Lord!

 

And I wish he would've flown a little higher on that ride, but maybe their Letter of Agreement with the tower keeps them at that altitude on that route...I don't know. All in all, I found little to criticize with his flying of that ride. I'm sure Chucky and Josh felt they got their money's worth.

 

It was Andres' dream since the, oh, 1990's to start a helicopter company. He used to post on the old rec.aviation.rotorcraft forum for those of you who are old enough to remember that. I think he was originally from New Jersey and migrated to St. Aug to start Old City. I give him props for not only starting his own company but keeping it going for as long as he has.

[pilot#476398]

It was Andres' dream since the, oh, 1990's to start a helicopter company. He used to post on the old rec.aviation.rotorcraft forum for those of you who are old enough to remember that. I think he was originally from New Jersey and migrated to St. Aug to start Old City. I give him props for not only starting his own company but keeping it going for as long as he has

.

That's just swell, but would you spend a grand or so on gas and hotels to tavel out there to work for him, for free?

[Nearly Retired]

 

 

That's just swell, but would you spend a grand or so on gas and hotels to travel out there to work for him, for free?

 

I guess the market will indicate whether anybody will or won't.

[Tenacious T]

I wouldn't. My first job was for ridiculously low pay but at least I was paid. This sounds like a new low. Although at least you're not paying him to work like Boatpix.

[pilot#476398]

 

I guess the market will indicate whether anybody will or won't.

 

I was just asking because it seemed like you knew him, and could possibly give insight as to whether or not he was the kind of guy who would screw someone over or not?

 

I imagine a local CFI student, or one fresh off the assembly line (perhaps from Bristow), would take the internship.

[ridethisbike]

What exactly did the internship entail duty wise?

[pilot#476398]

What exactly did the internship entail duty wise?

 

Here is the ad, its all I know about it.

 

Old City Helicopters, LLC , Florida

United States

 

Job Location:

Florida

 

Old City Helicopters, LLC is currently accepting resumes for interns in

Florida.

Minimum Requirements:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->FAA Commercial Rotorcraft

Certificate

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->150 Hours Rotorcraft

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->10 Hours R44

This is an unpaid internship. This is not a flying position, however, when

looking for new line pilots we will first look to promote from within. Interns

can expect to receive only a small number of flight hours while in this

program. Please send resumes to: OCHPilot@gmail.com

 

Please highlight any non-aviation skills you might have.

 

All correspondence via email only please.

[ridethisbike]

Well that explains nothing... lol

 

My school created an internship for a student that is working on her Masters in Safety something-or-other (forget the exact name). She's interning with the school's Safety Manager. Might be required for the degree, but I'm not sure.

 

Maybe they are doing something along the same lines and posted it for legal reasons?

 

I know some places are required by law to post a job ad even if they already know who they are going to hire.

[Rogue]

I read it as keeping someone on standby to replace someone in case they quit mid season.

 

I'm not trying to bash OCH either, I'm glad someone out there is willing to take on 200 hour pilots - everyone is definitely not CFI material. Too bad their business model couldn't support a living wage also. They tell prospective pilots to get a second job, so at least they are honest.

[dankaten]

I have never met the owner and I don't know anything about him but I can tell you what they told me in 2009.

I saw an ad for a CFII with Old City in 2009 and applied. The market was so bad that they received resumes from 200-5000 hour pilots. After they received all of those resumes they sent out a mass email to each of us to let us know this was a time building opportunity. As we all know when someone says time-building opportunity usually the pilot is going to get screwed.

 

What the job entailed was you had to work 6 days a week 12 hours per day but the only time you were going to be paid was when the hobbs meter was turning. You were not going to get to fly the tours because the boss liked to do those. You couldn't hold down a second job because there were not enough hours in the day.

 

Basically I was told that this job required you to have someone to support you or money in the bank because you were not going to make enough money to even eat on. I thought I wasn't reading the email correctly because I am pretty sure it is against the law to work someone and not pay them for their work so I emailed the guy to make sure I understood him correctly.

 

I did not make this up, this is what the guy wrote me after I sent him a second email because I thought I miss understood him. I believe this is called slave labor, not internship. Things may have changed in the last few years but this is what I came across then.

 

They filled the position a week later.

 

This is the kind of thing that keeps helicopter pilots jobs being paid so low. As long as there are pilots out there willing to take jobs at this kind of pay they will keep paying this way. But then how does a fella build his hours when everyone else wants them to pay to build their time? Even guys who are being paid to ferry a helicopter to another part of the country charge someone for filling the other seat. I guess this is considered good business sense because they are being paid twice for doing the same job but how does that help out the guy who is trying to build his time to be able to get a real job?

 

Just my opinion.

[zippiesdrainage]

Old City pays 8/hr when the pilot flies and if I remember correctly nothing when they don't. When you're not flying you load passengers for those flying. It seemed like on their web page I remember seeing that they have maybe 5 helicopters. The 6 days a week and 12 hour duty days are correct. But if they have 4 or so pilots for rotation purposes per Heli you could fly 3 of those 12 hours and log 18/week and make 144$ per week. It's below poverty but its time building and if you do it for 5 months that's 500+ hours. Beginning a year with the 300 min and then ending at 800 7 months later isn't bad, sure I'm sure a lot of guys go to flight schools to teach after that. It's a lot easier to gets CFI position with 800 rather than 300. And putting aside your own opinion about pay and being taken advantage of, it's the only option for some people.

 

Also I'm sorry about any grammar or punctuation errors, I'm posting from a phone from inside a locked refrigerator, send help.

[Spike]

In my opinion…

 

These operators can get a higher time, entry level pilot to fly their tours in a nanosecond. With that, why would they need an internship? The reality is, they don’t. What they need is a sucker to do their menial labor for free so they can operate with a higher profit margin (even if that margin is relatively small). READ the ad. There is no guarantee of a job -ever. You will work for free (possibly in violation of labor laws) and may never touch the controls of their machines and if you do, for what? To fly a 2 minute tour once or twice a week? This isn’t a get dirty for stick time type of gig. Proof? You wouldn’t need to advertise for it or call it an “internship”. Get real folks and have some dignity…..

[pilot#476398]

Old City pays 8/hr when the pilot flies and if I remember correctly nothing when they don't. When you're not flying you load passengers for those flying. It seemed like on their web page I remember seeing that they have maybe 5 helicopters. The 6 days a week and 12 hour duty days are correct. But if they have 4 or so pilots for rotation purposes per Heli you could fly 3 of those 12 hours and log 18/week and make 144$ per week. It's below poverty but its time building and if you do it for 5 months that's 500+ hours. Beginning a year with the 300 min and then ending at 800 7 months later isn't bad, sure I'm sure a lot of guys go to flight schools to teach after that. It's a lot easier to gets CFI position with 800 rather than 300. And putting aside your own opinion about pay and being taken advantage of, it's the only option for some people.

 

Also I'm sorry about any grammar or punctuation errors, I'm posting from a phone from inside a locked refrigerator, send help.

 

I didn't see anything like this on their website. Where did you get this info?

Edited May 27, 2013 by pilot#476398

[pilot#476398]

In my opinion…

 

These operators can get a higher time, entry level pilot to fly their tours in a nanosecond. With that, why would they need an internship? The reality is, they don’t. What they need is a sucker to do their menial labor for free so they can operate with a higher profit margin (even if that margin is relatively small). READ the ad. There is no guarantee of a job -ever. You will work for free (possibly in violation of labor laws) and may never touch the controls of their machines and if you do, for what? To fly a 2 minute tour once or twice a week? This isn’t a get dirty for stick time type of gig. Proof? You wouldn’t need to advertise for it or call it an “internship”. Get real folks and have some dignity…..

 

 

That's just it. If Zippie's correct and you could get 500hrs in 5-7 months then they would'nt need to advertize, because hundreds of low timers would be stopping in every month to hand deliver their resumes! Yet, as I've already mentioned, they post an ad two to three times a year! Something just sounds fishy to me?,...and like Boatpix its always really difficult to get FIRST HAND info!

[ridethisbike]

Zippy is right, they pay crap to the low timers. A student from my school finished his ratings and went out there. He has to hold a second job just to make ends meat.

[Rogue]

500 hours would be extremely optimistic considering that is what the top tier pilots at a very very very busy tour location I work at do in a year.

[eagle5]

I have never met the owner and I don't know anything about him but I can tell you what they told me in 2009.

I saw an ad for a CFII with Old City in 2009 and applied. The market was so bad that they received resumes from 200-5000 hour pilots. After they received all of those resumes they sent out a mass email to each of us to let us know this was a time building opportunity. As we all know when someone says time-building opportunity usually the pilot is going to get screwed.

 

What the job entailed was you had to work 6 days a week 12 hours per day but the only time you were going to be paid was when the hobbs meter was turning. You were not going to get to fly the tours because the boss liked to do those. You couldn't hold down a second job because there were not enough hours in the day.

 

Basically I was told that this job required you to have someone to support you or money in the bank because you were not going to make enough money to even eat on. I thought I wasn't reading the email correctly because I am pretty sure it is against the law to work someone and not pay them for their work so I emailed the guy to make sure I understood him correctly.

 

I did not make this up, this is what the guy wrote me after I sent him a second email because I thought I miss understood him. I believe this is called slave labor, not internship. Things may have changed in the last few years but this is what I came across then.

 

They filled the position a week later.

 

This is the kind of thing that keeps helicopter pilots jobs being paid so low. As long as there are pilots out there willing to take jobs at this kind of pay they will keep paying this way. But then how does a fella build his hours when everyone else wants them to pay to build their time? Even guys who are being paid to ferry a helicopter to another part of the country charge someone for filling the other seat. I guess this is considered good business sense because they are being paid twice for doing the same job but how does that help out the guy who is trying to build his time to be able to get a real job?

 

Just my opinion.

 

I got that email too, when I applied , thought to myself, holy sh*t! what kind of industry have I gotten myself into!

 

f**k'n burger flippers get more respect than low time pilots!

[Counterrotate]

 

I got that email too, when I applied , thought to myself, holy sh*t! what kind of industry have I gotten myself into!

 

f*ck'n burger flippers get more respect than low time pilots!

At some places, yes. However, my first flying job paid better than flipping burgers and also got me a lot more respect. There are good places to work for, and bad places. I suspect this is not a good place to work for. I have seen many revolving door businesses in my life, both in aviation and out. They are usually not nice places to work. They serve their purpose though. You just have to ask yourself: "Am I that desperate for flight time?"

[pilot#476398]

Zippy is right, they pay crap to the low timers. A student from my school finished his ratings and went out there. He has to hold a second job just to make ends meat.

 

Is Zippie also right about how big the operation is?..., because to be honest, I'd live in my car for 7 months to get 500 hours!

[zippiesdrainage]

I don't have first hand knowledge I was merely assuming that if they required you to be there for 12 hour shifts 6 days a week an average of 3 hours of flight time per day. If they work a week on/week off then cut those hours in half. It also assumes that you work steady from march through September.

[pilot#476398]

I don't have first hand knowledge I was merely assuming that if they required you to be there for 12 hour shifts 6 days a week an average of 3 hours of flight time per day. If they work a week on/week off then cut those hours in half. It also assumes that you work steady from march through September.

 

Oh' well Zippie. Thing is, I have a completely opposite impression of them. I figure they have just one helicopter at each location, with two pilots each. One full time guy (perhaps the boss) who gets 90% of the flights and another part time/on call guy, who must be "available" all the time, but rarely ever flies and almost never gets paid.

 

There's no picture of their operation on their website so unfortunately all I can do is guess?

[Rogue]

 

Is Zippie also right about how big the operation is?..., because to be honest, I'd live in my car for 7 months to get 500 hours!

see previous post about what kind of hours the guys get where I work where it is very very busy