Night Regs

[aeroscout]

Oops there is is. -CreepyAceGrahamCracker-

[Spike]

 

 

 

 

pppffffftttttt......

 

cuz yous guys is so amazing ya'll read FAA-H-8083-21 and taught yourself how to fly and everything else ya'll know

 

* edited.... not necessary to say.... *

 

 

* edited.... not necessary to say.... *

[Counterrotate]

 

 

 

 

pppffffftttttt......

 

cuz yous guys is so amazing ya'll read FAA-H-8083-21 and taught yourself how to fly and everything else ya'll know

 

* edited.... not necessary to say.... *

It's my rightful opinion that some of you that post here have no business being career pilots. Many of you are simply doomed to failure as your flaws will be easily recognized by prospective employers and you will simply never get hired. Others will fall through the cracks somehow, and you will either bend some metal at some point, or you will just be a general useless pain in the ass that all the other pilots and mechanics have to deal with on a daily basis. I'm not saying that this is YOU Rogue, but to whomever reads this, if the shoe fits....

 

Keep in mind I said "figure this out on your own", not "know the answer already". If I find a burned out bulb before a night flight, I don't need to get on VR and ask if it's legal for me to fly it like that or fix it myself or if I have to have a mechanic change it. I just go deal with it. What I would or would not do will depend on the component, the severity of the problem, and my knowledge about the aircraft and systems. If it's something I can handle, I will handle it myself. If it's something I can't, I will call the mechanic (I am experienced enough to know the difference). If it's something I want to defer because I feel it does not effect the safety of flight, I will defer it (that's the beauty of the regulations, you get to do that! You had better not crash though...). But I make that decision on my own. If I have to go pull out a book and go searching for answers, I will. I know how to find answers (and they are not on VR). What IS on VR is a bunch of know nothings and know-it-all's that I wouldn't trust with mechanical or regulatory advice as far as I could throw them. Seems more and more that the experience on here is being ignored and the ones getting all the attention and praise are newbies who have less time on this earth than some of these guys do in this industry.

 

There is no such thing as a dumb question, but there IS such thing as a dumb question asked aloud.

[Rogue]

I agree with your opinion about certain people shouldn't be career pilots, met a few.

 

Lest we forget this is a chat forum, a place to discuss things.

 

I don't really believe the OP was here in the 11th hour trying to find out whether or not he was legal to fly. It sounded more like he was trying to stay current on his knowledge and found something he just wasn't 100% sure about. Should he have known about the MMEL ? Yes, I think so. EDIT - however, that is a deficiency of his/hers instructor more than it is his/hers.

 

I just thought yall seemed to be overly harsh on someone who seems like they are trying to better themselves.

 

Whatever..... I don't have to live with ya'll

Edited July 11, 2013 by Rogue

[eagle5]

I agree with your opinion about certain people shouldn't be career pilots, met a few.

 

Lest we forget this is a chat forum, a place to discuss things.

 

I don't really believe the OP was here in the 11th hour trying to find out whether or not he was legal to fly. It sounded more like he was trying to stay current on his knowledge and found something he just wasn't 100% sure about. Should he have known about the MMEL ? Yes, I think so. EDIT - however, that is a deficiency of his/hers instructor more than it is his/hers.

 

I just thought yall seemed to be overly harsh on someone who seems like they are trying to better themselves.

 

Whatever..... I don't have to live with ya'll

 

No, you're wrong,...I actually WAS sitting next to my little R22 waiting for a response from the VR experts before attempting to fly that night!

 

As for the MMEL. I had asked my CFI about it once,...he said there wasn't one for the R22. I guess I should have known he was lying!

 

Next time I'll just wisper my question into the ear of someone I see at the airport, lest I upset the delicate career know-it-alls on some obscure internet forum! I don't know if those guys are real pilots or not, but with their attitude why would anyone listen to what they have to say?

 

I did post this question on the "flight training forum" after all?

Edited July 11, 2013 by eagle5

[Counterrotate]

I agree with your opinion about certain people shouldn't be career pilots, met a few.

 

Lest we forget this is a chat forum, a place to discuss things.

 

I don't really believe the OP was here in the 11th hour trying to find out whether or not he was legal to fly. It sounded more like he was trying to stay current on his knowledge and found something he just wasn't 100% sure about. Should he have known about the MMEL ? Yes, I think so. EDIT - however, that is a deficiency of his/hers instructor more than it is his/hers.

 

I just thought yall seemed to be overly harsh on someone who seems like they are trying to better themselves.

 

Whatever..... I don't have to live with ya'll

Regardless, my point stands. I once asked a question like this, and literally got a book thrown at me. I learned my lesson. I can't throw books at you through the Internet,but I can chastise you for asking a question you should know how to find the answer to. This is a big problem I am seeing with new pilots coming out of flight school. Their google-fu is better than their knowledge of the pubs. Everyone looks for a quick answer to their question. The problem with this is they are missing out on the bigger picture they would get if they actually read the regulation, manual, or whatever applicicable text in its full context. It may take more time, but it yields a better understanding of the subject matter. Reading, it seems, is a dying art.

[Spike]

It's my rightful opinion that some of you that post here have no business being career pilots. Many of you are simply doomed to failure as your flaws will be easily recognized by prospective employers and you will simply never get hired. Others will fall through the cracks somehow, and you will either bend some metal at some point, or you will just be a general useless pain in the ass that all the other pilots and mechanics have to deal with on a daily basis. I'm not saying that this is YOU Rogue, but to whomever reads this, if the shoe fits....

 

Keep in mind I said "figure this out on your own", not "know the answer already". If I find a burned out bulb before a night flight, I don't need to get on VR and ask if it's legal for me to fly it like that or fix it myself or if I have to have a mechanic change it. I just go deal with it. What I would or would not do will depend on the component, the severity of the problem, and my knowledge about the aircraft and systems. If it's something I can handle, I will handle it myself. If it's something I can't, I will call the mechanic (I am experienced enough to know the difference). If it's something I want to defer because I feel it does not effect the safety of flight, I will defer it (that's the beauty of the regulations, you get to do that! You had better not crash though...). But I make that decision on my own. If I have to go pull out a book and go searching for answers, I will. I know how to find answers (and they are not on VR). What IS on VR is a bunch of know nothings and know-it-all's that I wouldn't trust with mechanical or regulatory advice as far as I could throw them. Seems more and more that the experience on here is being ignored and the ones getting all the attention and praise are newbies who have less time on this earth than some of these guys do in this industry.

 

There is no such thing as a dumb question, but there IS such thing as a dumb question asked aloud.

 

Counterrotate,

 

Nicely put…..

 

Thank you,

 

Spike

 

Edited July 11, 2013 by Spike

[Spike]

I agree with your opinion about certain people shouldn't be career pilots, met a few.

 

Lest we forget this is a chat forum, a place to discuss things.

 

I don't really believe the OP was here in the 11th hour trying to find out whether or not he was legal to fly. It sounded more like he was trying to stay current on his knowledge and found something he just wasn't 100% sure about. Should he have known about the MMEL ? Yes, I think so. EDIT - however, that is a deficiency of his/hers instructor more than it is his/hers.

 

I just thought yall seemed to be overly harsh on someone who seems like they are trying to better themselves.

 

Whatever..... I don't have to live with ya'll

 

The internet is not a place to better yourself…. To the contrary… And if you believe otherwise, good luck with that….

 

Plus, I’ll add to what’s already been said, a competent pilot should not need the VR forum to determine his/her ability to fly… Why? Chances are the answer will be wrong, and therefore, the information gained should be deemed as unreliable. Conversely, the internet can provide good, solid, accurate information but certainly, not as a “poll” on a “chat room” forum…

 

Should a pilot know everything? Hell no. However, knowing where to obtain that information is an absolute necessity. With that, “know-it-alls” do not exist in aviation. It’s the people who believe they do who are misguided……..

 

Edited July 11, 2013 by Spike

[eagle5]

I'm not sure why the two of you even come to this forum? All you seem to do is rack on us low timers about how illinformed and poorly trained we are,...and of course how your generation was so much better, because you did things the old fashioned way!

 

To be perfectly honest, the main reason I posted this on the "flight training" forum instead of the "general" forum was that I was hoping then that you two wouldn't bother reading it!

 

...well at least avbug didn't show up!

[Rogue]

 

 

...well at least avbug didn't show up!

 

bwaaaahahahaaaahahahaaahahahahaaahahahahaaahahahaahahahaa !!!!!!!

 

QUOTE OF THE YEAR !!!!

 

bwwwaahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhaa !!!!!!!

[Spike]

I'm not sure why the two of you even come to this forum? All you seem to do is rack on us low timers about how illinformed and poorly trained we are,...and of course how your generation was so much better, because you did things the old fashioned way!

 

To be perfectly honest, the main reason I posted this on the "flight training" forum instead of the "general" forum was that I was hoping then that you two wouldn't bother reading it!

 

...well at least avbug didn't show up!

 

I'm not sure why the two of you even come to this forum?

 

Make no mistake, I visit this forum because I can…..

 

All you seem to do is rack on us low timers about how illinformed and poorly trained we are,...and of course how your generation was so much better, because you did things the old fashioned way!

 

That’s a negative… I rack on YOU because of how uninformed YOU appear to be in addition to YOUR lack of respect for this industry and those who came before you….

 

To be perfectly honest, the main reason I posted this on the "flight training" forum instead of the "general" forum was that I was hoping then that you two wouldn't bother reading it!

 

Be advised. YOU are not the VR Police. With that, I can visit any area of the forum I please….

 

...well at least avbug didn't show up!

 

I guess that’s makes him the smart one……Funny eh?

 

Edited July 11, 2013 by Spike

[Rogue]

Oh I see this is an ongoing thing....

[Counterrotate]

What I don't understand, Rogue, is why YOU are now racking on SPIKE? I am not a low timer, but I am not what I would consider an Old Salt either. I am somewhere in between in both age and experience. Somewhere between yourself and the Avbugs and Spikes of the forum. But make no mistake, I respect those guys, and even if I disagree, I still respect their opinions. You don't survive that long in this industry without knowing your sh*t. That's something you will find out if you are in this business long enough. Something a lot of people on here seem to not get: This job is not very glamorous. It's long hours with mostly low pay. I spend more time in a cubicle than I spend in the cockpit. It's definitely not what I thought it was going to be. But I like a challenge. And I find it rewarding anyway, and it makes all the cockpit time I get seem all that much sweeter. Because I *expletive* EARNED it. I know I sound old when I talk about the new generation of pilots, but it's true, there is something lacking there that makes me want to smack my head with a lot of the younger guys coming through. It's like they got through training by the skin of their teeth and just don't KNOW anything. If you ask them a question, they don't go for the book, they get on their "smart" phone and look the answer up on google. and if they can't find it on google, they post a question about it here on VR.

 

It reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes where Calvin does a single push up, stands up, and yells "REWARD PLEASE!". The world doesn't work that way...

 

If you don't get that, you're a lost cause.

[Rogue]

Huh? racking on Spike... HUH ? <--- you lost me there bro, if you mean the last post I wrote all I said is I did not know Eagle was disrespectful or otherwise in a bunch of other posts, in other words - an ongoing thing.

 

believe me I work with my share of idiots, how they ever got a commercial job is beyond me....

 

I knew exactly what I was getting into and its exactly what I expected, its called due diligence.

 

Avbug ? may or may not be right I don't know I usually fall asleep after the 7th extraneous paragraph...

 

As to all the other chest thumping - I've been around the block quite a few times (read: OLD), served in a Spec Op group, etc, etc seen my share hard times. One thing I know, unless you are the boss then you don't set the standards. Self aggrandizing machismo aside everyone takes a different path and not everyone has what it takes to be the top tier and not everyone has had the opportunity to work with great teachers/mentors which was the point of my post - teaching and mentoring. ( and to clarify... once again... I'm talking about this post and this post alone, I don't know and don't really care what beef you had with Eagle in another post(s) on this post he cited the POH and the REGS, not a bad start and not the worst question I've seen asked, ya'll certainly picked a real bad example to call him out on IMHO )

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rogue

[eagle5]

I'm actually pretty happy with how this thread turned out. I learned how to deal with a burned out instrument light. Everything else was just the usual entertainment one gets from using the internet.

 

...until the next question.

[Spike]

I'm actually pretty happy with how this thread turned out. I learned how to deal with a burned out instrument light. Everything else was just the usual entertainment one gets from using the internet.

 

...until the next question.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but I beg to differ only because the desired answer was a “yes” or a “no”. IMO, even though iChris ultimately provided the complete answer (as usual), the thread fell short of the big picture….

 

Where I came from, this was a typical pre-private flight eval question: “the __________ is not working, can you fly?” This WAS NOT intended to be a yes or no question. The pilot was EXPECTED to process the problem and come up with the answer… Such as:

 

1. Check FAR 91.205 for instrument and equipment requirements.

2. Check the POH/RFM for instrument and equipment requirements.

3. Check any STC’ed supplement equipment requirements.

4. Check MM (maintenance function).

5. Check MEL (if applicable).

 

After that and the particular component is not listed:

 

1. Refer to FAR 91.209 for appropriate action.

 

If you consider a repair:

 

1. Refer to FAR 43.

2. Refer to POH/RFM.

3. Refer to MM.

4. Check any STC’d supplements.

 

Mind you, even if the applicant said “yes” or “no” and was in fact correct without demonstrating an understanding of the above process, he/she ultimately failed the question.

 

[Counterrotate]

Huh? racking on Spike... HUH ? <--- you lost me there bro, if you mean the last post I wrote all I said is I did not know Eagle was disrespectful or otherwise in a bunch of other posts, in other words - an ongoing thing.

 

believe me I work with my share of idiots, how they ever got a commercial job is beyond me....

 

I knew exactly what I was getting into and its exactly what I expected, its called due diligence.

 

Avbug ? may or may not be right I don't know I usually fall asleep after the 7th extraneous paragraph...

 

As to all the other chest thumping - I've been around the block quite a few times (read: OLD), served in a Spec Op group, etc, etc seen my share hard times. One thing I know, unless you are the boss then you don't set the standards. Self aggrandizing machismo aside everyone takes a different path and not everyone has what it takes to be the top tier and not everyone has had the opportunity to work with great teachers/mentors which was the point of my post - teaching and mentoring. ( and to clarify... once again... I'm talking about this post and this post alone, I don't know and don't really care what beef you had with Eagle in another post(s) on this post he cited the POH and the REGS, not a bad start and not the worst question I've seen asked, ya'll certainly picked a real bad example to call him out on IMHO )

My apologies, I addressed the wrong person. Refer my last post to eagle5.

[Spike]

Huh? racking on Spike... HUH ? <--- you lost me there bro, if you mean the last post I wrote all I said is I did not know Eagle was disrespectful or otherwise in a bunch of other posts, in other words - an ongoing thing.

 

believe me I work with my share of idiots, how they ever got a commercial job is beyond me....

 

I knew exactly what I was getting into and its exactly what I expected, its called due diligence.

 

Avbug ? may or may not be right I don't know I usually fall asleep after the 7th extraneous paragraph...

 

As to all the other chest thumping - I've been around the block quite a few times (read: OLD), served in a Spec Op group, etc, etc seen my share hard times. One thing I know, unless you are the boss then you don't set the standards. Self aggrandizing machismo aside everyone takes a different path and not everyone has what it takes to be the top tier and not everyone has had the opportunity to work with great teachers/mentors which was the point of my post - teaching and mentoring. ( and to clarify... once again... I'm talking about this post and this post alone, I don't know and don't really care what beef you had with Eagle in another post(s) on this post he cited the POH and the REGS, not a bad start and not the worst question I've seen asked, ya'll certainly picked a real bad example to call him out on IMHO )

 

Actually, what I perceived as “racking” was post #25. And, while I appreciate counterotates comments, I assure you there is ZERO “chest pounding” going on. Specifically, there is no reason for me (or anyone else for that matter) to come here at all. I do so to provide information based on MY experience and to discredit any bogus information which seems to proliferate this business, and subsequently, this site. Additionally, if you don’t know the “history”, then why chime in? Furthermore, while I appreciate your service to our country (BTW, couldn’t your reference to your Op’s Spec history be viewed as “chest pounding”?), I’ll ask; while training for your Spec Op’s duties, did any meaningful learning experience come from an internet forum, or did they come from real live human beings? Simply put, IN MY OPINION, the internet can be a place to learn certain things. However, the internet is by no means the place to mentor simply because of its anonymous nature and you just don’t know the experience level of the individual doing the talking…….. Including me…….. And you…….

Edited July 12, 2013 by Spike

[Rogue]

Yea amazingly enough there are gun enthusiasts out there that know a great deal about military weaponry and go figure they like to talk about guns on the internet.

 

If the reader can't decipher between someone full of sh*t and someone who isn't then tough sh*t I guess but to blanket label that learning or being mentored from the internet doesn't work is BS.

 

I know because when I started flying airplanes years ago someone from the AOPA forums mentored me and was a great deal of help.

 

Sorry your life experiences have been so negative.

 

and furthermore I got the best advice I ever got right here on this website.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rogue

[Spike]

Sorry your life experiences have been so negative.

 

and furthermore I got the best advice I ever got right here on this website.

 

Yet another assumption and a perfect example of what I was talking about….. Lastly, advice is not mentoring…..

 

 

Advice (opinion); an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide.

 

 

Mentorship; is a personal developmental relationship in which a more experienced or more knowledgeable person helps to guide a less experienced or less knowledgeable person. However, true mentoring is more than just answering occasional questions or providing ad hoc help. It is about an ongoing relationship of learning, dialog, and challenge.

 

Edited July 12, 2013 by Spike

[Rogue]

Oh ok you pulled out the dictionary, you win the internet, thanks good bye.