Talon64 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Graduated today and have six months till 2. Other than after WOCS I didn't have any bubbleWhat is 2? Six months til 2? Congratulations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d10 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I've heard from several UH-60M course IPs in the last week that their class sizes were cut. I'd expect some bubbles to start forming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyreaper Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 And WOCS isn't hard, if you fail it's because you didn't tryOk, thanks. I will try my best... to be the best! Surprising to me anyone would make it into WOCS and then 'not try'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.o.n.y Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 CW2 And you would be surprised. Was a young kid out of basic, failed his WOCS entrance PT. Made it in the next one, graduated from WOCS. Headed into BOLC, on Friday asked what if he was going to be sick on Monday - BOLC PT test. They were surprised and asked how he knew he was going to be sick then. Sure enoughhe went to sick call and didn't start. Did it again the next time. Finally they said you're taking the next PT. Young 20s, thin, failed it. And the next one. Now he's gone. Just didn't want to be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyreaper Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Rog, thanks for elucidating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcclainm Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 How stringent are the PT test graders? Just out of curiosity. I'm not a slouch, but I'm wondering if they're "to standard" graders (ie upper arm parallel, base of the neck is over base of the spine etc) or are they like the black hats I had at Airborne School (chest damn near touching the ground). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstarx87 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 My grader was "to standard"... nothing crazy. One person in our class failed by one push up or something like that. I think that that's the norm ... always a few failures per class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01CelicaGTS Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 1) How hard are the academic tests?2) What would you(or anyone) say caused those people to fail the 7 week WOCS test in the quote above?3) A friend of mine who I graduated college with just selected 60s, according to him there is plenty of study time for any graded test, is this true?4) Given that due diligence is applied and any study time is taken advantage of, are academics something that people normally struggle with? The academics side of WOCS is a relative unknown to me, not sure what to expect other than the vagaries of what Ive heard... Thanks! 1) Not really too hard as long as you pay attention in class and have good study techniques.2) I can only speak for my class, but it was 2 prior enlisted E6-E7s. I think they have been used to all of the other army schools (i.e. instructors stomping their foot when they are talking about something on the test), and in WOCS it is generally not like that. A few instructors help quite a bit with what's on the test, but most do not. Also, like I said before these guys that failed out did not have a second chance during WOCS like most of us did because they were prior DL failures.3) Not really in WOCS. I mean, you have a mandatory hour every night, and then just any down time that you have (which isn't much). 4) Yes tests are hard, but if you actually take the time and study you will be fine. I don't know how many people fail due to academics, but I don't think it's that many. My class was different in that aspect. In general, most failures are due to land nav. And almost every class has at least one person that doesn't pass the initial PT test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brackac Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Graduated today and have six months till 2. Other than after WOCS I didn't have any bubbleHow do you have 6 months till you make CW2 when you just graduated WOCS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.o.n.y Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Done with flight school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brackac Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Done with flight schoolAh, ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyreaper Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 1) Not really too hard as long as you pay attention in class and have good study techniques.2) I can only speak for my class, but it was 2 prior enlisted E6-E7s. I think they have been used to all of the other army schools (i.e. instructors stomping their foot when they are talking about something on the test), and in WOCS it is generally not like that. A few instructors help quite a bit with what's on the test, but most do not. Also, like I said before these guys that failed out did not have a second chance during WOCS like most of us did because they were prior DL failures.3) Not really in WOCS. I mean, you have a mandatory hour every night, and then just any down time that you have (which isn't much). 4) Yes tests are hard, but if you actually take the time and study you will be fine. I don't know how many people fail due to academics, but I don't think it's that many. My class was different in that aspect. In general, most failures are due to land nav. And almost every class has at least one person that doesn't pass the initial PT test.Thank you, very much appreciated. I'm trying to get an idea of the pass/fail standards for WOCS (well not really an "idea", I feel like I need to know). I have so many questions... Is there a published curriculum? I've looked through the WOCC site and haven't really found what I am looking for. If I have this straight, someone who is a phase I resident has two attempts on a graded test. What happens if you fail land nav? Are they recycled to another class, given another attempt, or just straight up dropped from the flight contract and go on to serve enlisted? Are these types of questions about the curriculum and standards addressed in the WOCSOP? Does anyone have a current copy you could send to me? That will get you 10,000 pts. The copy for sale at flyusarmy.com is dated May 2012, is this publication still current? If so, I will buy that if I can't get hooked up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01CelicaGTS Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Thank you, very much appreciated. I'm trying to get an idea of the pass/fail standards for WOCS (well not really an "idea", I feel like I need to know). I have so many questions... Is there a published curriculum? I've looked through the WOCC site and haven't really found what I am looking for. If I have this straight, someone who is a phase I resident has two attempts on a graded test. What happens if you fail land nav? Are they recycled to another class, given another attempt, or just straight up dropped from the flight contract and go on to serve enlisted? Are these types of questions about the curriculum and standards addressed in the WOCSOP? Does anyone have a current copy you could send to me? That will get you 10,000 pts. The copy for sale at flyusarmy.com is dated May 2012, is this publication still current? If so, I will buy that if I can't get hooked up here.PM me your email and I'll send you a copy of it. As far as I know the May 2012 is still current. Not positive. It doesn't have info on academic curriculum or grading or anything that I can remember, but you'll get an ISAP (Individual student assessment? Plan) which will outline all of that. You'll get that before you start when you are inprocessing. You pretty much have 2 attempts at everything. If you fail land nav, you'll do it again with the next class and still graduate with yours if you pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyreaper Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 PM me your email and I'll send you a copy of it. As far as I know the May 2012 is still current. Not positive. It doesn't have info on academic curriculum or grading or anything that I can remember, but you'll get an ISAP (Individual student assessment? Plan) which will outline all of that. You'll get that before you start when you are inprocessing. You pretty much have 2 attempts at everything. If you fail land nav, you'll do it again with the next class and still graduate with yours if you pass.Got it. Thanks alot man, pm inbound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon64 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Done with flight schoolCongrats on the program graduation! What's that feel like? What air frame did you go with? And how was the selection process for that?How long were you in training from start to finish, with minimal bubbles? Congratulations Again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.o.n.y Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 It feels nice to be able to take a break! lol... but about to get back into it again before I head to my unit. I didn't have any bubbles after BOLC. Would have had three weeks off, but they asked for volunteers to jump into SERE right away and I went. From there Aeromed came quickly, less than two weeks off, immediately followed by Primary which transitioned straight into instruments, straight into BWS, then we had 10 days from selection to start of 60s. Have a neighbor who had 6 weeks off recently, we had 10 days. Selection, think we had 2 Apaches, 1 Chinook, 2 Kiowas, and about 9 Hawks. Two classes before and after us were really guns heavy, we were Hawk heavy. The class right before us had quite a few PT failures and the first failure (bottom of the OML) still had a 60, 64, and 58 to choose from. The two 58s went before the 1 Hook, was surprised. There are a lot of PT failures! Don't be one of them, it isn't hard to pass. WOCS PT failures, BOLC, selection, and graduation. Don't let the only thing keeping you from graduating is a simple PT test. With that said, other than potentially having fewer options at selection, there really isn't any punishment for failing. No getting kicked out, no humiliation, just do more PT and show up at BCo. Take time off, chill, get paid. So I heard at least... Know one guy, good dude but weak on PT, failed selection and grad PT test. I started BOLC in December, first flight was early April, final checkride end of Feb, graduated mid March. So about 15 months for the 60M course from starting BOLC-grad. It goes by faster than you think, the 60 course really flew by. We had a couple fail WOCS (5 weekers who came with us for failing something online, then failing at WOCS). One guy from BOLC got set back then failed out of Primary. Lost one due to a medical issue. One from my class got to 58s, then failed 5&9s and is gone. Various setbacks for various reasons - life happens. Once you get to the flight portion, as long as you study and do well on academics, they'll work with you. If you aren't quite getting the flying portion, they can give you extra hours. If you fail a checkride, they can give you more hours. If you just don't perform on exams (you can retake, but don't make a habit of poor performance) or 5&9s, you're done. In the 60 class before us a guy made it all the way to the Hawk, failed back-to-back 5&9s and was gone. Do well on academics, know 5&9s, have a good attitude and you'll be fine - even if you're having a hard time with flying cause that they'll work with. Know two guys who failed two checkrides, they just graduated. Get your own study habits down that work for you. I studied all week, took Friday night - Sunday morning off as my own personal time, then back in the books Sunday afternoon. Work hard and have fun, it goes by faster than you realize (looking back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 That's really helpful thank you tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMKarlinski Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Ok what are 5&9s? I've seen this referenced a few times but I'm not familiar with the terminology. (If an explanation was given elsewhere I apologize). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apacheguy Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Ok what are 5&9s? I've seen this referenced a few times but I'm not familiar with the terminology. (If an explanation was given elsewhere I apologize).Chapter 5 is limitations, Chapter 9 is Emergency Procedures in all army helicopter operator manuals (called a dash ten). Interestingly, not the same for the UH-72 cause it has an RFM not a dash ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMKarlinski Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Oh ok thanks! I'm guessing those might be worth studying beforehand? Of course, I don't want to jump too far ahead of myself. I'm a civilian so I have to go through basic first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apacheguy Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Oh ok thanks! I'm guessing those might be worth studying beforehand? Of course, I don't want to jump too far ahead of myself. I'm a civilian so I have to go through basic first.I wouldn't start memorizing 5 and 9 just yet. You have a long way to go before you need to worry about that. You could do some sort of memory building course if you wanted. Flight school is all about memorization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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