Enstrom Partner Peoria Illinois

[lvflyer]

Thanks Aussiecop. I did take your advice and call Roger Sharkey and guess what... He is the one that sold this to the previous owner. He was very familiar with the aircraft and sang the praises of the mechanic, JL. It seems nobody wants to look at the facts on the ground and continue thinking the mechanic was the greatest. I can't blame the seller because I believe he was sold a bill of goods from the mechanic as well. I have no doubt that he thought he was getting the best of service and he himself told me that he spared no expense because his wife's safety was worth it at all costs. In fact, 7 years ago, I looked into being a 50% partner in this and at the time I thought he was spending way too much, at $5000+ per annual, and it turns out he was. I think had he been aware of what was going on that he wouldn't have had some of the issues that he did have with this. I just hope that nobody becomes a victim. Oliver's was also a former owner of this and, in fact, he is the one who rebuilt it after a major accident. I'm thinking of taking it to him this summer to look it over and bring back some memories. One thing is for sure, had I had experience with Enstroms I would have caught a lot of these things in a second. Obvious ommisions and errors for those that know. As it is I am just fumbling around and making things right. Case in point the collective adjustment. Anyone with Enstrom time would have known it was way wrong. Another thing is flying around without leaning. Anyone with experience knows these are designed to be leaned. They have plenty of power when flown properly.

[aussiecop]

Ah, there may be some confusion. While I did mention Roger Sharkey who is well known. I wanted to you to call Randy Sharkey, at Goshen airport. Easy to confuse. Not sure if they are related as I never asked, but Randy was one of my instructors and has 10,000+ hours. He is an Enstrom dealer in Indiana. I don't know Roger Sharkey personally other than seeing him around a little at shows. He is also well known, but I trust Randy as he is one of the best pilots I've ever met. Worthwhile guy to know, even at this late stage after all of your issues. You should try going to Rotors and Ribs this year at Goshen airport. He'll be there and I am sure they would love another aircraft there. I am trying to get there myself. Just need to find someone here in ATL with an aircraft that is going to make the trip

[fleman202]

To the question $5000 annuals. Have you ever had a annual done by JL? In my small amount of experience in the aviation world, the amount of maintenance is going to vary depending on the aircraft being serviced. For example, a 6000hr helicopter is probably going to have more issues that need regular attention than a 500hr helicopter. I have also found that there are issues that come up with helicopters that are not required to be fixed on an annual, so if the owner of that aircraft wants to have a cheaper annual cost he can not have those issues fixed. He will then have to pay down the road to have that issues fixed when the problem finally surfaces and is required to be repaired.

 

It makes sense to me that because our company depends on the helicopter being fully functional during the busy season, we need to spend more money during the scheduled maintenance inspection to fix small issues before they become big issues. This leads to a higher cost annual but less down time and less worry of small issues exploding during the season.

 

As far as the sediment in the fuel and other issues, I talked with JL and got his opinion about the machine. He flew 3+ hours from the same fuel tank while tracking the rotor system, plus bought 50 gallons from the previous owner and did not ever see and specks of what you found? Where did you get your fuel from? Several of the other issues you have stated are issues that the previous owner had a choice whether or not to have them fixed. JL has always done a good job of laying out the issues and letting the aircraft owner decide whether he wants to address all of the small things.

 

I think a pre-buy inspection and a logbook inspection would have caught pretty much all the issues you are finding. Just my opinion from my limited experience from purchasing aircraft.

[fleman202]

 

 

It really sucks that there are shoddy people in this industry willing to sell aircraft knowing that there are big issues, along with mechanics who are self professed experts when they clearly are making decisions that could have fatal consequences like we have seen time and time again over the years.

 

Some people really are experts can be given a bad name without doing anything to deserve it. Before using the above mentioned mechanic for all our maintenance needs I did a lot of homework about him. I was not able to find a single negative thing about him. The only thing that came close was when someone said he is almost to particular about the machines he services which can sometimes lead to a little extra cost. He does not like to leave an issue un-resolved.

 

Just trying to stick up for who I believe is a quality guy. This is all based from my dealing with him.

[lvflyer]

With all due respect you aren't getting the right information. The day of delivery is when the sediment was pumped from the bottom of the tank. He flew it before that day. The sediment is not the issue. The wrong retainer pin on the filter screen is the issue and should have been caught many annuals ago. The screen was not making a seal and therefore the sediment made its way to the injectors and plugged them. Had the screen been sealed then all that would have been needed was a tank flush and not a complete system flush. Wrong park plugs with sand blast sand still in them, wrong tail rotor fluid with loose drain plug not safety wired correctly, compromised cables wearing on frame, bad collective adjustment, oleos frozen, ground handling tires unuseable, and dampers not properly bled. The list goes on. Shouldn't these things have been dealt with a long time ago? Yes the reputation was impeccable, but I think you need to see the logs and facts to get a clear conclusion. Yes trust, but verify. That goes for every mechanic.

Edited May 15, 2014 by lvflyer

[280fxColorado]

"Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:22

$95k. A bit high, but it has been cared for exceptionally. I am flying with seller tomorrow to learn the tricks and quirks of the machine."

Caveat Emptor. Did you hire a 3rd party mechanic to do a prebuy inspection? A few of the issues you mention (the retainer pin) should have been noticed but, honestly, what did you expect? You bought a 37 year old helicopter for under $100K. I think you're being too hard on the mechanic and the public personal attacks are in poor taste. There's a vast different between what's "safe," what is legally required on an annual to be "airworthy" and what is "ideal".

"Posted 09 May 2014 - 17:32

One thing is for sure, had I had experience with Enstroms I would have caught a lot of these things in a second."

This is EXACTLY WHY a qualified 3rd party prebuy is standard for aircraft purchases.

"Posted 22 April 2014 - 17:54

I paid a premium becasue of Brad's belief in his reputation."

But YOU believed in it as well. I think you paid a fair price for the machine and you're learning the hard way that you get what you pay for, and nothing is cheap when it comes to helicopters.

Edited May 20, 2014 by 280fxColorado

[lvflyer]

Actually, according to Roger Sharkey the mid time value of this machine is $85k and this machine is averaging most components beyond mid time. No I didn't hire an independent because of the perceived reputation. Remember I was going to be a 50% partner in this till the last second. I have not used any names so not public, only for those who know around here I stress caution. The IA has been a big help to me in the past on my Mooney so I am really surprised by what I found. Overall the machine has been maintained throughout the years very well, considering it has over 6400 hours on it. The point is that basic things that would have been caught in the last 7 years by someone with Enstrom experience or a mechanic that actually owns the maintenance manual and keeps up with all the service bulletins weren't. My conclusion is the person owning and working on this machine for the last 7 to 9 years didn't have the experience. Doesn't it seem odd, that I, with no experience in Enstroms discovered these basic issues? It flies much easier, cleaner, and has more performance now. Thanks to Bayard, Roger, Dennis, and all on the forums.

[flylow]

Haven't done a real practice auto yet, but hovering autos are a no brainer. Did that for real on my first flight due to fuel contamination. I've done autos at altitude, but not enough courage to go all the way to flare yet. I know I can get it to the ground without a catastrophe and no injuries, but don't know if I can get down with ship unscathed.

 

You are flying with passengers and want to do commercial work giving rides, photo flights, etc., yet you are not comfortable/proficient with emergency procedures? And you are raking this A&P over the coals on at least two forums for not doing what you think he has missed or should have be done? How is what you are doing any different at all. Passengers put their trust in the PIC for a safe flight, including getting them safely down in case of emergency. Yet you haven't done any autorotations to the ground, or at least to power recovery at hover height. Now *that* is scary.

[lvflyer]

 

You are flying with passengers and want to do commercial work giving rides, photo flights, etc., yet you are not comfortable/proficient with emergency procedures? And you are raking this A&P over the coals on at least two forums for not doing what you think he has missed or should have be done? How is what you are doing any different at all. Passengers put their trust in the PIC for a safe flight, including getting them safely down in case of emergency. Yet you haven't done any autorotations to the ground, or at least to power recovery at hover height. Now *that* is scary.

Please only reply with facts. It does no good to make comments like this without first hand knowledge. I have in fact done autos to recovery and am confident of survival. The issue is that I cannot get reasonable priced insurance without 25 hours dual by a CFI that also has 25 hours dual in an Enstrom. I cannot find an Enstrom pilot that will instruct in my ship without insurance being on the ship. Why should I have to rent another Enstrom to satisfy that requirement. That is all I am saying. Also I am not looking to to "commercial" work. It is private work according to Part 91 and the waivers in Part 135. That is being hotly debated in the pilot community. There is no way that I can do anything with this where I can be compensated personally monetarily, just by the joy of getting to fly. The FAA considers the joy to fly as compensation. As to the A&P and AI I can ony speak to the facts and the facts are that in 7 years of annuals these basic things would have been noticed and fixed by any compitent mechanic. I am not a professional mechanic and I found them in the first weeks of ownership thanks to the Enstrom community. $5000 was charged for base annual on this for 7 years. That is 50 hours at $100 per hour, which I feel is undeserved by any one person, let alone a backyard A&P. I real business has to get near that to pay for overhead and such, but not a person working in his back yard. 50 hours is enough to make this spotless and 100% correct with all proper screws and no shortcuts don't you think? Well this was maintained worse than my Mooney at less than $1000 per year.

[flylow]

1. Please only reply with facts. It does no good to make comments like this without first hand knowledge. I have in fact done autos to recovery and am confident of survival.

 

2. I cannot find an Enstrom pilot that will instruct in my ship without insurance being on the ship. Why should I have to rent another Enstrom to satisfy that requirement.

 

1. Only reply with facts??? I quoted your post from 1 month ago where you said you "haven't done a real practice auto yet" and "... but not enough courage to go all the way to flare yet". If you aren't comfortable and proficient with doing autos and other emergency procedures, you shouldn't have passengers in your aircraft until you are, IMHO.

 

2. Why? How about passenger safety??

[lvflyer]

 

1. Only reply with facts??? I quoted your post from 1 month ago where you said you "haven't done a real practice auto yet" and "... but not enough courage to go all the way to flare yet". If you aren't comfortable and proficient with doing autos and other emergency procedures, you shouldn't have passengers in your aircraft until you are, IMHO.

 

2. Why? How about passenger safety??

That was many hours of flight ago. I just completed cross country and many other flights. I may not have the experience as Dennis Kenyon or other long time Enstrom pilots, but I am 100% confident I can fly this ship under all circumstances safely, with and without passengers, as well as any pilot that trained exclusively in an Enstrom. That's why the insurance requirements are bogus.

[lvflyer]

That was many hours of flight ago. I just completed cross country and many other flights. I may not have the experience as Dennis Kenyon or other long time Enstrom pilots, but I am 100% confident I can fly this ship under all circumstances safely, with and without passengers, as well as any pilot that trained exclusively in an Enstrom. That's why the insurance requirements are bogus.

And the saga continues. My Enstrom is currently in the middle of annual. In addition to the collective not being rigged properly I just discovered the belt drive system was also not rigged properly. It was obvious to anyone that would remove the seat pan. The engaging lever shield is actually cracked because the rigging was so far off and couldn't disengage the belt fully. Could be reason for the main rotors continuing to turn at high rate after disengaged and at start up. Hmmm I guess 7 annuals didn't uncover this dangerous fact. You want facts there they are. Mechanic handles this for 7 years and had wrong plugs, wrong fuel strainer retainer pin, wrong grease, Enstrom said to discontinue Mobil 28 use in 2009 SIL 0168, wrong collective rigging, wrong belt drive rigging, more than 1 year worth of sludge build up in cowling, The list goes on and on. I think someone should be losing their A&P and IA license. These ommissions are down right deadly. I wouldn't be surprised if he never had an annual checklist or a maintenance manual. How can you miss these things if you did. I'm just an owner and I can see they are wrong. Corrosion on frame and main rotor has gone unchecked for 7 years as well. Engine has been out 3 times and the frames have never been refinished properly. My mechanic and I have lots of work ahead of us. At $5000 base annuals, what the previoius owner told me when I was going to be a partner, this shouldn't be the case. Come on 50 hours each year at $100 per hour. What can you do with that? What should have been done?

Edited July 5, 2014 by lvflyer

[Dreamin of a Commuter 2B]

Nice, I almost had an Entrom F-28-C, but sadly the guy was a Con and I lost my Depoist, long story short the guy was supposed to have been rebuilding it, then died, was from Cali. his family looked all over and finely found what was left of the bird we contracted to have rebuilt. was not enough left to go to cali to bring home.

 

Glad your deal was legit and you got your bird. they are a sweet machine for sure. have you ever seen the Video of Dennis Kenyon working the F-280 C out? you would not beleive what that machine can do. btw have ya flown it at night yet? been told that Turbo makes a pretty blue flame out the pipe at night. keep us posted on how your baby does for ya. the Price sounds pretty good to me. I don't think you will regret it.

[Dreamin of a Commuter 2B]

Here is the Video of Dennis Kenyon giving the 280-C a work out.

 

 

[Dreamin of a Commuter 2B]

Looks like I found this thread to late, just got caught up. man sorry to hear of all the bad issues, hope ya get it worked out.

[lvflyer]

That's OK its good to revive the thread anyway. I've learned a whole bunch since I posted last fall. Yes I have seen Dennis' video, before I purchased. Kinda helped me make the decision. I've also talked to him on forums. Much appreciated. Yes I did fly at night, but didn't notice the blue. I assume at full throttle it pretty much is screaming out of the pipe. There is only inches from turbo to outlet. I do know the heat is wrecking havoc with the paint and inner frame. Heat is causing corrosion that has not been treated on the cross tubes in the engine compartment. I'll be treating them now. The exhaust port on the side panel is deteriorating from the heat and will eventually have to be recreated. It's a piece of polished aluminum that is rolled and is now burning to a crisp at the top. The exterior paint around the area is dull and will have to be polished to get back the shine. So with that being said It wouldn't surprise me that it shot a blue flame at night. If you are on Facebook you can follow me as I put up videos and pictures. You can join the Enstrom Appreciation group and find me on there.

[lvflyer]

As I said I am in the middle of my annual and am going to re-prime all the areas on the frame with corrosion. Real sorry mess if you ask me for 8 years of annuals and 2 engines. Seems to me with the engine out would have been the time to clean and recoat frame members, oh well. What I am looking for is a picture of a rebuilt transmission. Mine has a gray/brown epoxy around the seam on the bottom and gobs of permatex over and all around the bolts in the back. Should the epoxy be there? I know the permatex shouldn't it is gobbs of mess. There is a small seep of fluid, just enough to make a mess on the belt. I think he was trying a shotgun approach to stop a drip. It's odd that the permatex actually is covering the safety wire for the drain plug and magnetic pickup. Hmm was the transmission actually drained at last annual? Another mystery. In my experience if you go picking on a patch to find out what is under it things might get worse so I cleaned it off real good and watching for a seep. If there is one I'll just supplement the permatex red with Permatex Spray N Seal. I'm just wondering if this isn't a common problem with rebuilt transmissions. Mine is due for rebuild in 300 hours so I would like to get by till then. I just don't like the mess.

[Mikemv]

lvflyer,

 

As I said I am in the middle of my annual and am going to re-prime all the areas on the frame with corrosion. Areas of corrosion should be treated as stated in the MM or by the factory then primed.

 

What I am looking for is a picture of a rebuilt transmission. A rebuilt x-msn should look like a new one. Ask the factory for a picture or guidance.

 

There is a small seep of fluid, just enough to make a mess on the belt. A method I used to identify leaks was to wash/clean the suspected/reachable areas. blow dry or wipe dry and then spray with white foot powder. Run up and look for discoloration immediately on the powder!

 

Hmm was the transmission actually drained at last annual? You are going to drain it this annual, are you not?

 

I'm just wondering if this isn't a common problem with rebuilt transmissions. Who rebuilt the x-msn? Ask them if it is a common problem. Ask a factory tech rep?

 

Mike

[lvflyer]

lvflyer,

 

As I said I am in the middle of my annual and am going to re-prime all the areas on the frame with corrosion. Areas of corrosion should be treated as stated in the MM or by the factory then primed. That is my plan

 

What I am looking for is a picture of a rebuilt transmission. A rebuilt x-msn should look like a new one. Ask the factory for a picture or guidance. It appears as part of the rebuild they run a line of epoxy around the case joint. It looks like to me that for some reason the seepage is at the back bolt fingers or maybe even in the bolt holes. I don't want to strip the patch of high heat RTV that is already there if I can just add to it. Would be nice if there was a logbook entry describing the issue.

 

There is a small seep of fluid, just enough to make a mess on the belt. A method I used to identify leaks was to wash/clean the suspected/reachable areas. blow dry or wipe dry and then spray with white foot powder. Run up and look for discoloration immediately on the powder! Great idea.

 

Hmm was the transmission actually drained at last annual? You are going to drain it this annual, are you not? Everything according to MM so of course.

 

I'm just wondering if this isn't a common problem with rebuilt transmissions. Who rebuilt the x-msn? Ask them if it is a common problem. Ask a factory tech rep? I don't have the books with me, but probably came from Sharkey's as an exchange.

 

Mike

[lvflyer]

 

lvflyer,

 

As I said I am in the middle of my annual and am going to re-prime all the areas on the frame with corrosion. Areas of corrosion should be treated as stated in the MM or by the factory then primed. That is my plan

 

What I am looking for is a picture of a rebuilt transmission. A rebuilt x-msn should look like a new one. Ask the factory for a picture or guidance. It appears as part of the rebuild they run a line of epoxy around the case joint. It looks like to me that for some reason the seepage is at the back bolt fingers or maybe even in the bolt holes. I don't want to strip the patch of high heat RTV that is already there if I can just add to it. Would be nice if there was a logbook entry describing the issue.

 

There is a small seep of fluid, just enough to make a mess on the belt. A method I used to identify leaks was to wash/clean the suspected/reachable areas. blow dry or wipe dry and then spray with white foot powder. Run up and look for discoloration immediately on the powder! Great idea.

 

Hmm was the transmission actually drained at last annual? You are going to drain it this annual, are you not? Everything according to MM so of course.

 

I'm just wondering if this isn't a common problem with rebuilt transmissions. Who rebuilt the x-msn? Ask them if it is a common problem. Ask a factory tech rep? I don't have the books with me, but probably came from Sharkey's as an exchange.

 

Mike

 

Follow up. Heard from Bayard DuPont from Enstrom. SIL 0166 addressed this issue and logs say it was complied with, NOT. Found bolts loose so torqued to specs and no more seeps. I got rid of all the red RTV because you aren't suppose to use that with synthetic gear oil. Once I got rid of that I found I could turn the bolts with a short open end wrench. Torqued to 100 in/lbs and so far so good. I'm not sure if I need to supplement the Proseal so the verdict is out. Just drained it today and made a mess doing so. Didn't think that small funnel hole would be problem with gear oil, duh. Good thing I didn't have the top engine inspection plates off.

Edited July 20, 2014 by lvflyer

[lvflyer]

Maybe I'm really anal about my aircraft maintenance, but I think this shows 7 years of neglect more than 7 years of care by "the best helicopter mechanic around here". What do you think? Found the transmission bolts loose and lots of RTV to cover it all up instead of just torque to SIL 0166 recommendations. Under cockpit floor and in engine bay and all skins show major neglect. Took hours to clean and will have to reapply zinc chromate to most panels and to many support tubes. Collective and belt drive not rigged properly. Main rotors never maintained and had bare aluminum exposure for the entire time, thus exfoliation. This is a mess, but won't be when I'm done. Here is link to what I discovered so far. www.dahome.net/enstrom.htm

[aussiecop]

LV,

 

Did Bayard get back a hold of you after I talked to him at the show? I just have to say again after meeting him for the third time at ALEA, what a cool guy. He is probably the most knowledgeable guy on the planet regarding Enstroms and he is so happy to help even right down to the single owner level. I asked him if Enstrom would be closing their doors when he leaves and what they are going to do when he leaves. He chuckled and said that he can't give all the information he knows away quick enough to anyone who wants to listen. He said you can't take it with you. He alone when you meet him is enough to want to buy one of those goofy looking yet awesome birds.

[fleman202]

We have had our R44 maintained my that "best mechanic around" for two years. It always leaves his shop better than when it went in.