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Long Line in a Jet Ranger


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I have transitioned out of the 500E and into the OH58/Jet Ranger. I had a touch over 1000hrs in 500s and I was a pretty competent long line pilot in the 500. I am finding the 58 very very touchy and sluggish in response. Are you flying long line with the force trim on or off? A little stiffness in the cyclic seems to help me a little but I dont want to teach myself a bad habit.

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I haver never flown a 206 with force trim, I'm not sure how the system works but when I was first learning to longline I used the friction a little to help me stop over controlling. I don't see how that's a bad habit. As I got more comfortable I slowly started using less friction.

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I wouldn't want to try long-lining in a 206. It takes too much pedal movement to keep it straight, and that causes torque spikes. It's just not a good platform for long-lining. I've been flying 206s for 30-something years, and have never seen one with force trim. You can put on a little cyclic friction, and I always do, but that's all you get. Someone may have come up with an STC for some sort of force trim, but it's not a standard Bell installation.

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I think what Flying Pig is referring to is the cyclic friction. I don't use very much, if any, friction when I long line. That being said, I think it is personal preference and I have seen good long line pilots use both.

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I wouldn't want to try long-lining in a 206. It takes too much pedal movement to keep it straight, and that causes torque spikes. It's just not a good platform for long-lining. I've been flying 206s for 30-something years, and have never seen one with force trim. You can put on a little cyclic friction, and I always do, but that's all you get. Someone may have come up with an STC for some sort of force trim, but it's not a standard Bell installation.

Have you ever long lined? I wouldn't say it's not a good platform for long lining. Or at least don't tell the literally millions of sling loads that have been flown in with a 206. I have slung out of the 206, 407 and Astar. I can tell you Bells are so much easier to get use too compared too an Astar. Now that I have enough time in both its not so bad but for precision work give me a 407 any day of the week.

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I wouldn't want to try long-lining in a 206. It takes too much pedal movement to keep it straight, and that causes torque spikes. It's just not a good platform for long-lining. I've been flying 206s for 30-something years, and have never seen one with force trim. You can put on a little cyclic friction, and I always do, but that's all you get. Someone may have come up with an STC for some sort of force trim, but it's not a standard Bell installation.

They all have the Force Trim installed. You can select on or off.

Edited by Flying Pig
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FB,

 

When you state "they all have forced trim installed", what model of helicopter are you talking about?

 

OH58?

 

Certainly not BH206.

 

Mike

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OH58. I put Jet Ranger in the title. I just ASSumed that 58s and 206s both had Force Trims. I guess only the 58 has them. Ive never flown an actual BH206. Only the Bell OH58. Prior to this all of my experience was in the 500E.\

 

So...... I guess that answers my question. You guys are obviously not using the Force Trim feature :D

Edited by Flying Pig
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Have you ever long lined? I wouldn't say it's not a good platform for long lining. Or at least don't tell the literally millions of sling loads that have been flown in with a 206.

 

I know it's done, and I did a lot of them back long ago, but I still don't think it's the best platform for it. YMMV.

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Force Trim. The TH-57 incorporates a cyclic force trim system, which incorporates a magnetic brake and a force gradient spring to provide stick position trim and artificial feel. A trim button is located on the cyclic. Every pilot will have a slightly different technique for using the force trim. Generally, in a hover or any flight profile in which the cyclic is trimmed and steady, small corrections should be made around the trimmed cyclic position using it as a reference. If a new attitude is desired, or a large correction required, the cyclic position should be changed by depressing the force trim button. The proper way to use the force trim is to depress the force trim, displace the cyclic as necessary, release the force trim and make small corrections around the new trim point. Do not move the cyclic and then depress the button or a kick will be felt as the pressure is released. A simple mnemonic device to help reinforce a good trim technique is "press, hold, release."

 

Is this what you guys are talking about,...'cause it seems kinda wierd?

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Yes, that is what Flying Pig is talking about. The force trim system is installed on the military -58, the UH-1, and the TH-57. It was a contract requirement for the TH-57 for training purposes; all the larger follow-on aircraft in the Army, -47, -60, and the -64 all have force trim systems. I dont know about the -58D. Force trim sytem in primary = positive habit transfer later, plus helpful during instrument phase.

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Never flown a 206 with a force trim either, don't know what it does, but it sounds important. For goodness sake keep it on! Seriously though your complaints sound like a good comparison between the 500 and 206 in general. I think you will come to like the "light" feel of the cyclic soon and be a wizard on the line even if the old jetbox is sluggish. My advice is don't use friction, take a deep breath, relax and just fly it like a helicopter. The 206 will point into wind which makes pedal work easier and set up a sight picture to get the load to the spot from there. Go slow at first she is not a sporty 500 but will respond nicely to your gentle touch. Let us know when she loves you back!

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Thats all I use it for. Just to set the cyclic when Im at idle. A little touch of friction makes the cyclic not as loose feeling. Seems to be working out. Its just a matter or getting used to the sensitive hydraulic touch. But its all coming together.

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Are you flying long line with the force trim on or off? A little stiffness in the cyclic seems to help me a little but I dont want to teach myself a bad habit.

 

 

Its just a matter or getting used to the sensitive hydraulic touch. But its all coming together.

 

Yes... You're teaching yourself a less effective, not the most desirable, habit to build upon. You want to develop a fine pressure control touch on the cyclic.

 

Stick trim off and zero friction on the cyclic; however some friction maybe desirable on the collective.

 

This is normal with pilots that started out longline in the MD500 and move into the Bell 206. Sometimes, when you have both type ships, it's best to start new pilots in the Bell 206 (Wobble Ranger) first.

 

You're most likely over-controllling and ending up with the old "Wobble"

 

Like you said:

 

Its just a matter or getting used to the sensitive hydraulic touch.

Edited by iChris
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Ive got it pretty well dialed in now. It was just taking a little time to learn it. Ive always flown fully articulated systems. Now with the UH1 and the 58 it just took some changes. Biggest thing was that in the 500 I pretty much had my whole and on the stick to have my thumb in a position to work the trim tab. Doing that in the 58 caused way to much control pressure and over control. It was just a matter of getting some time in it and getting comfortable. Id love to jump back in a 500 in a couple months and see what happens! :)

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In my experience, almost all pilots defeat (turn off) force trim if the helicopter offers that option. I only use force trim in order to enable SAS or ATT when using the autopilot in IFR conditions I've also used force trim to hover with SAS during Class D external loads, 'cause they won't let the pilot look out and down and he has to hover following the hoist operator's commands). Otherwise, force trim gets in the way.

 

I have done most of my long line work in a 206. Great aircraft. That said, nothing compares to a 500. Best of the best. That doesn't take away from the 206. If you can't long line with a 206, you can't long line. Just give it time. You'll learn to love it. Dave Evans, formerly of Rainbow Helicopters, owns the STC for flying a 206 from the left seat. Very nice. You out there, Dave?

 

Now, I want to know how one goes from a 500 to a OH58. Some civilian contractors flying Little Birds might do that, but I can't figure out how else it could happen. OH58 to 500, I understand; 500 to OH58 I don't.

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Now, I want to know how one goes from a 500 to a OH58. Some civilian contractors flying Little Birds might do that, but I can't figure out how else it could happen. OH58 to 500, I understand; 500 to OH58 I don't.

I lateralled LE agencies and moved out of CA. Went from an agency that had 500Es to an agency that has 2 58s and 2 Hueys and a fixed wing. Got the opportunity to get into Hueys and do fire as well so I jumped on it.

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