Confused on how CFI's get paid.

[VFlyer]

I understand that normally CFIs will instruct their students and bill them their rate based on how much they've flown and/or how much ground school has been given.

 

Normally the hourly rate for this is say $40/hr, but I've also seen schools who pay "daily rates" of $80/day.

 

Here is where I'm confused.

 

Say the school has been hired out to do some sort of cherry drying. This involves the instructor getting to the field at midnight, and working throughout the night until say 6am.

 

These are all lose numbers, but you'll see what I'm getting at.

 

If the instructor is hourly, would the school pay him his normal rate per hour flown? 3 hours flown x $40/hr = $120?

 

If the instructor is on a "daily rate", would he make $80 for being at the field for 6 hours? I've been told by someone that they worked not only their normal working day which is 8:30am-7:30pm, but also did the cherry drying at night for another 6 hours...for what I presume is for still $80.

 

I don't to want to probe him too much, but this seems like an exceptionally bad deal and even possibly criminal, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding it. Does anyone have any insight on either of these situations?

 

Cherry drying is one event, but what about ferry flights? charter? maintenance flights?

[rick1128]

It really depends on the school and the owner. First of all the rate the school charges is not the rate you will get. You will get something lower. The reason is that, the school has to cover your overhead. Things like lights, building, office supplies, etc. Plus whatever benefits you get and government taxes and the like. Since you are a low time pilot, some employers will take as much advantage of you as they can. Hence the $80/day. Generally most schools pay on the billable hours an instructor flies. A few do salary. The key for you to survive financially is to give your students the full benefit of your instruction, bill for ground time and actively dig into the inactive student files and encourage them to return.

 

ood luck.

[helipilotm]

I understand that normally CFIs will instruct their students and bill them their rate based on how much they've flown and/or how much ground school has been given.

 

Normally the hourly rate for this is say $40/hr, but I've also seen schools who pay "daily rates" of $80/day.

 

Here is where I'm confused.

 

Say the school has been hired out to do some sort of cherry drying. This involves the instructor getting to the field at midnight, and working throughout the night until say 6am.

 

These are all lose numbers, but you'll see what I'm getting at.

 

If the instructor is hourly, would the school pay him his normal rate per hour flown? 3 hours flown x $40/hr = $120?

 

If the instructor is on a "daily rate", would he make $80 for being at the field for 6 hours? I've been told by someone that they worked not only their normal working day which is 8:30am-7:30pm, but also did the cherry drying at night for another 6 hours...for what I presume is for still $80.

 

I don't to want to probe him too much, but this seems like an exceptionally bad deal and even possibly criminal, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding it. Does anyone have any insight on either of these situations?

 

Cherry drying is one event, but what about ferry flights? charter? maintenance flights?

First off I have never seen or heard of a flight school paying instructors $40 an hour. The school I worked for paid instructors starting out at 18 for flight and ground. It went up as you built time except ground was 18 an hour. It topped out at 24. You got paid flight time when you were flying ground when you were teaching ground. Any other flying was flight time per the Hobbs and anything over 1 hour of standby was paid the ground rate. I'm pretty sure that's pretty standard except the hourly rates might be different depending on the school.

[apiaguy]

ahh.. love it... "criminal"... agreeing to whatever you are compensated..(even if you make $0 and are compensated in other ways) hardly makes it criminal.

exceptionally bad deal... yes That is what happens when there are too many flight instructors and not enough students.

[VFlyer]

ahh.. love it... "criminal"... agreeing to whatever you are compensated..(even if you make $0 and are compensated in other ways) hardly makes it criminal.

exceptionally bad deal... yes That is what happens when there are too many flight instructors and not enough students.

 

I just say criminal in that they are apparently working 11 hour days and their hourly rate comes out to less than minimum wage which I presume is against the law. The instructors are not slaves and are welcome to leave, but with the difficult atmosphere of getting a job anywhere and the bear of aviation in general, I'm sure many of them feel that way.

[apiaguy]

I get what you're saying... just know that it is what it is and talking about it like the operator is breaking the law puts a big black flag on you. I certainly would fire or not hire anybody who complains about what they ARE getting after agreeing to it.

[eagle5]

 

I just say criminal in that they are apparently working 11 hour days and their hourly rate comes out to less than minimum wage which I presume is against the law. The instructors are not slaves and are welcome to leave, but with the difficult atmosphere of getting a job anywhere and the bear of aviation in general, I'm sure many of them feel that way.

 

I've had jobs like that (non aviation though). One employer would pay me by the clock hour and I'd end up with overtime (and even double overtime) then another would pay per day and no matter how far past 40hrs/week I would go, the pay was the same (which worked out to be less than "minimum wage" many times!

 

It makes me wonder what the point of "minimum wage" is (or how the system even works) when there are so many jobs out there that add up to less?

 

Life really sucks when you have no experience!

[VFlyer]

The way I interpret it is that it's not like the owner is breaking the law, the owner is breaking the law. Or so it would appear. I'm not an attorney, but to me it seems as labor laws and minimum wage is in place for protection for cases exactly like this. What's to stop them from requiring an instructor to be there 24 hours a day? You agreed to a daily rate.

 

I think its fair to say that an 11 hour day followed by 6 hours of cherry drying for $80 is severely unethical to say the least.

 

But again, maybe I've misinterpreted this, and don't understand. I'm curious to how prevalent "daily rates" are, and if this is truly a weapon that is used to take advantage of the CFIs for labor that contends with China.

 

Also with normal hourly pay, if they can't leave the cherry drying site, and are there for 6 hours and maybe only fly 1 hour, how does this work?

[Azhigher]

Bottom line is the operator is going to pay you whatever they can get away with. Up to you whether you take the job or not. I'd try to find a school/operator that paid an hourly rate.

[adam32]

Maybe ask the operator that you are talking about instead of asking a bunch of guys on the internet? You might get a good answer and realize that they aren't criminals?

[wopilot]

I seriously mis read the title... Lets just say I put an 'L' somewhere instead of a 'P'.

 

I had a response ready and everything...

[RkyMtnHI]

Hmmmm.

 

We pay ALL of our instructors $40 an hour for ground and/or flight. We also pay them $10 an hour for anything they do around the hangar/office.. like cleaning helicopters, the hangar, working on paperwork, making calls, etc (oh yeah, and they get paid on time, every time).

 

Three of our guys make between $1000 to $1400 per week (that's more than make!).

 

We found that you get what you pay for.

 

dp

[aeroscout]

I seriously mis read the title... Lets just say I put an 'L' somewhere instead of a 'P'.

 

I had a response ready and everything...

If you were to make that switch, it would be a very short thread.

[Gomer Pylot]

Most jobs are NOT covered by minimum wage laws, contrary to popular belief.

[eagle5]

Most jobs are NOT covered by minimum wage laws, contrary to popular belief.

 

Then what's the point of minimum wage laws?

[JMZ]

 

Then what's the point of minimum wage laws?

So that you (all of us) the peasant will THINK that the 545 "elected" royals actually might care about your well being.

[500F]

as far as I know the only jobs not covered are ag. jobs and salaried jobs. Even waitresses (who can be paid less than minimum wage) have to be compensated up to minimum wage if the tips dont add up to it.

[Spike]

Specific labor laws are dependent on State law. Even so, if you’ve been in this business for any length of time, you’ve surly been unfairly compensated at one time or another and (again) depending on the state, possibly in violation of labor laws. In fact, years ago, a major California EMS operator was taken to task on the labor law issue and lost. And, that was with a MAJOR EMS operator! Just imagine what the small time operator is getting away with….. Regardless, when you have individuals who will do this work for free, what’s the motivation for an operator follow a labor law? Simply put, in this business, pilots generally shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to “fair” compensation. To wit, my first full-time part 135 gig paid $20K and I accepted it with enthusiasm….. However, without that job, I may not be where I am today….. Or better said, it’s one of the sacrifices we make in order to fly helicopters for a living…. For the OP, get used to it.....

Edited August 8, 2013 by Spike

[aussiecop]

Hmmmm.

 

We pay ALL of our instructors $40 an hour for ground and/or flight. We also pay them $10 an hour for anything they do around the hangar/office.. like cleaning helicopters, the hangar, working on paperwork, making calls, etc (oh yeah, and they get paid on time, every time).

 

Three of our guys make between $1000 to $1400 per week (that's more than <I> make!).

 

We found that you get what you pay for.

 

dp

 

DP,

 

You are an exception to the rule mate, not all operators work with your high standards and morailty. That's why Colorado Heli Ops is constantly in magazines. Because you get what the industry "should" be like and can prove that it can be done. Some operators are greedy, some are always scared of the next maintenance bill and hence wont pay what they should and squirrel away every cent. You should start doing a "how to run a helicopter business" seminar at HAI maybe a few operators could learn from your example.