FY13 Warrant Officer Promotion Rates

Joe_P148 · August 16, 2013

First off, Congratulations to all of those who made the list this year. This was a tough one and I'm pretty sure we are not out of the woods yet. I believe there will be more cuts to follow. CW5's got absolutely desimated this year as well. I do not have tech warrant results or CH47 or OH58.

It is importnant to note that statistics show that PME and Track were not good enough to get promotoed this year. Civillan education promotion rates were very high for CW3, I think like 70% had at least a AA or AS. Lesson to all of you folks headed to rucker or just graduating. Just being a graduate of BOLC and a good stick will not get you promoted. If you don't have civillan education get it! Become an asset to your company, teach classes, become an expert on something, be a professional and support your command. If you do this, the flight time will come and the schools will follow.

--------------------------------------------------- CW3

CW3 Rates (All Aviators)-

AZ: 50/168 (29.8%)

PZ: 270/454 (59.5%)

Overall: 320/622 (51.4%)

UH-60 CW3

AZ: 28/95 (29.5%)

PZ: 106/186 (57.0%)

Overall: 134/281 (47.7%)

AH-64 CW3

AZ: (22.2%)

PZ: (67.9%)

Overall: 74/115 (64.3%)

--------------------------------------------------- CW4

CW4 Rates (All Aviators)-

AZ: 19/92 (20.7%)

PZ: 118/182 (64.8%)

Overall: 137/274 (50%)

UH-60 CW4

AZ: 9/40 (22.5%)

PZ: 56/92 (60.9%)

Overall: 65/132 (49.2%)

AH-64 CW4

AZ: (4.2%)

PZ: (73..1%)

Overall: 20/50 (40.0%)

--------------------------------------------------- CW5

CW5 Rates (All Aviators)-

AZ: 13/144 (9.0%)

PZ: 7/74 (9.5%)

BZ: 1/67 (1.5%)

Overall: 20/218 (9.2%)

UH-60 CW5

AZ: 4/46 (8.7%)

PZ: 1/19 (5.3%)

BZ: 0/12 (NA)

Overall: 5/65 (7.7%)

AH-64 CW5

AZ: (8.6%)

PZ: (0%)

Overall: 3/35 (9.5%)

---------------------------------------------------

Velocity173 · August 16, 2013

Those rates aren't the best. Looks like a lot of guys will be getting forced out.

akscott60 · August 16, 2013

We had two guys get picked up for CW3 on their second look. Lets just say they are happy guys.

Joe_P148 · August 17, 2013

From my original WOCS class about 1/3 got picked up. Another 1/3 didn't get picked up and the last 1/3 is already out of the army and that is a 90+ aviator class.

These numbers lookalike crap but also this was a hybrid board from march until December we will see what happens on the next one.

The only thing that puzzles me is the W5 board, lots of very unhappy W4s walking around. I don't blame them either W5 really shouldn't be held back. In my opinion there isn't enough of them and having W5s at the battalion level would be good for direct communication with the younger guys needing mentorship.

Ardo09203 · August 18, 2013

Being new to all of this, I am a little confused, and hopefully someone can help me clear up this confusion.

What do you guys mean when you talk about guys getting forced out? Are you only allowed to stay a certian rank for a period of time, and if not promoted you are "forced out"? Or are these guys getting upset that they arent being promoted and not re-signing?

zaurus · August 18, 2013

Ardo09203

You have so much to learn grasshopper. The military has an up or out system when it comes to Officer's promotion as the name implies. If not selected for promotion within a certain time frame, you will be told to leave unless given an exception or continuance. It's been this way for at least 50-60 years if not more.

Ardo09203 · August 18, 2013

Ardo09203

You have so much to learn grasshopper. The military has an up or out system when it comes to Officer's promotion as the name applies. If not selected for promotion within a certain time frame, you will be told to leave unless given an exception or continuance. It's been this way for at least 50-60 years if not more.

What did promotion rates use to look like? Because 60% is much higher than I would have thought.

zaurus · August 18, 2013

Joe_P148

The Army is going in the opposite direction regarding CW5s aviators. CW5 aviation authorization slots in 2012 was 296. For 2015, the number is being reduced to 257. Since CW5s usually make that rank at the 20 year point as a Warrant Officer, they could stay for an additional 10 years before retirement. That being the case, CW4s best have a Plan B regarding future promotions in a peace time environment. The cream is definitely rising to the top in the Warrant Officer Corp.

Velocity173 · August 19, 2013

What did promotion rates use to look like? Because 60% is much higher than I would have thought.

it's not the 60 % that's bad it's the CW3 AZ 30 %. You see those guys who didn't get picked up? Unless they're within 18 yrs of service or somehow they've been selected to be retained in rank (SELCON), they'll be forced out. I know a couple guys who were not SELCON and will be forced out. They aren't screw ups, just didn't meet the cut.

It gives you an idea in the difference of this drawdown promotion and peek wartime promotion. I got pinned CW3 in 2007 only 5 yrs after CW2. Promoted a year early and the board was over 80 %!

As zaurus said it's pretty much the way things are during peacetime military. Met a bunch of guys through the years who were forced out. Some are given the option of a different MOS or a reduction in rank. Knew a MSGT in the Marines who had aviator wings. He used to be a CAPT flying H-46s in Vietnam. They said you can hit the road or take E-6 and go ATC. He chose the later. Mike Novosel, one of Army Aviation's most famous aviators didn't start out Army. He was a LTC in the Air Force. After WWII his services were no longer needed and he was released. Unfortunately it's a way of dealing with the rising personnel costs.

Ardo09203 · August 19, 2013

it's not the 60 % that's bad it's the CW3 AZ 30 %. You see those guys who didn't get picked up? Unless they're within 18 yrs of service or somehow they've been selected to be retained in rank (SELCON), they'll be forced out. I know a couple guys who were not SELCON and will be forced out. They aren't screw ups, just didn't meet the cut.

It gives you an idea in the difference of this drawdown promotion and peek wartime promotion. I got pinned CW3 in 2007 only 5 yrs after CW2. Promoted a year early and the board was over 80 %!

As zaurus said it's pretty much the way things are during peacetime military. Met a bunch of guys through the years who were forced out. Some are given the option of a different MOS or a reduction in rank. Knew a MSGT in the Marines who had aviator wings. He used to be a CAPT flying H-46s in Vietnam. They said you can hit the road or take E-6 and go ATC. He chose the later. Mike Novosel, one of Army Aviation's most famous aviators didn't start out Army. He was a LTC in the Air Force. After WWII his services were no longer needed and he was released. Unfortunately it's a way of dealing with the rising personnel costs.

Yea that is pretty rough...makes you wonder how much longer before we end up in another conflict.

Rob1237051 · August 19, 2013

Hopefully before I'm up for CW3...er...I mean never. Yes, that's a far more socially acceptable response. Never.

Ardo09203 · August 19, 2013

Hopefully before I'm up for CW3...er...I mean never. Yes, that's a far more socially acceptable response. Never.

But only the foolish believe this is the last one haha

matteus588 · August 19, 2013

What is the normal promotion timeline for aviation warrant officers? Basically, what's the earliest TIS (assuming you have no prior service when you became a WO) you could hope to promote and then the average time before you're eligible for the next. Just looking for broad time ranges, as I know the military of today is different from the military of yesterday.

And does anyone know how this compares to the commissioned side of the aviation house? Did they get hit just as hard?

Joe_P148 · August 19, 2013

matteus,

Upon 2 years TIG as a WO1 you will pin CW2, this is automatic unless you mess up. After that, you are looking at about 4-5 years until you get looked at for CW3 and 5-6 before you actually pin. This will depend on when you pinned CW2 and around where your DOR fits the promotion review boards criteria. This last board was CW2's that pinned between march 2008 - December 2008. I was reviewed at about 4 1/2 years after pinning CW2, with the results coming out about 4 3/4 years or August. Howerver, because of my sequence number and being on the tail end of the fiscal year I will be one of the last people to pin so I'm looking at about 5 1/2 almost 6 years before I pin CW3. At this rate I will be reviewed for CW4 sometime in 2018-2019 Timeframe. Also, when I say pinning I really mean the date the orders are posted, or DOR. If your unit decides to pin you later your still offically promoted on paper.

I don't know much about RLO promotion timelines but I can tell you most of them take Captain. I say take because it's pretty much automatic. Following that, a majority and this is just my estimation, I'd say 70-80% get out of aviation or out of the Army. Out of my 5 past company commanders 4 either re branched or got out. It's not that they don't want to stay in but being a pilot and watching the warrants do everything while you are sitting in a staff office, isn't that appealing to most. After company command RLO's aren't looking at flying ever again in the company level. The next command will be a battalion about 10+ years down the road, it's a huge commitment.