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Damn it, I wish this was simple...


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I am currently a 37 yr old Architect who really wants to fly. I'm growing tired of my profession and am considering a career change. I've done a few test flights, and flying in a helo is just about the coolest thing a person can do imo. Everytime I hear a chopper go by I run outside to check it out...I think I might be hooked. I just wanted to get some general feedback from everybody here!

 

Couple questions....If I make a career change to helo pilot, what do you think the chances are of dying in a helicopter related accident? (I've got 2 kids I don't really want to orphan!)

 

It's a helluva lot of money to invest up front to get a CFI and start flying, what does the income potential look like when you first start out? $8 /hr....$20/ hr ??

 

Seems like most people I've talked to still have other jobs to make ends meet.

 

Any replies are greatly appreciated!!

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I am currently a 37 yr old Architect who really wants to fly. I'm growing tired of my profession and am considering a career change. I've done a few test flights, and flying in a helo is just about the coolest thing a person can do imo. Everytime I hear a chopper go by I run outside to check it out...I think I might be hooked. I just wanted to get some general feedback from everybody here!

 

Couple questions....If I make a career change to helo pilot, what do you think the chances are of dying in a helicopter related accident? (I've got 2 kids I don't really want to orphan!)

 

It's a helluva lot of money to invest up front to get a CFI and start flying, what does the income potential look like when you first start out? $8 /hr....$20/ hr ??

 

Seems like most people I've talked to still have other jobs to make ends meet.

 

Any replies are greatly appreciated!!

 

It is simple, if ya do it right……….

 

 

Flying helicopters for a living is as safe as you want to make it. Fly like a cowboy and take unnecessary risks, the chances of death by helo is high. Fly like a pro and chances are low….

 

Entry level helicopter jobs pay in the realm of poverty wages and yes, most get additional jobs to supplement their income. However, do your research right and end up at a busy school and your income can increase significantly if you take the kick-a** approach…

Edited by Spike
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The chance of dying in a helicopter is about the same as starting a career as one,...it may happen, it may never happen! So unless you can see the future, just close your eyes, jump, and see what happens.

 

As for pay, CFIs make around $20 a flight hour, so it depends on how much you fly as to whether or not you'll be able to pay your bills/survive?

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I always thought being an Architect would be a cool job, a job by the way you'll need to keep until you have around 1500 flight hours and can land an entry level turbine job flying in the Grand Canyon! As for dying, you could just as easily die in a car crash on the way work, no matter what your job is!

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Most crashes are to due human error and can be avoided, so your fate is what you make for the most part. But good pilots crash so there will always be a risk that is greater than other jobs.

 

Get with a big enough school and you will make enough money to live comfortably but you will be working 12 hours a day. The guys who aren't making much also aren't flying much and have time to work a second job. If you train at the kind of school that can provide enough students to make enough money and build time fast enough then come out on top in your training and hope to get hired.

 

Are you outgoing, positive, personable, and well spoken? Do you interview well? Are you in shape physically (i.e. lightweight)? If so, then you can hope to to find a CFI job outside of your training school. If you are a grumpy fat a**hole then the 200 hours you are putting on your resume won't get you very far. Being a good instructor has little to do with how you fly, except for safety, so expect to sell yourself as a teacher not a pilot. If you have a ton of cash you can buy your hours after training but the flying you pay for won't make you very marketable, or respected, when you reach your hours.

 

It is possible to achieve a career as a heli pilot but it is hard, for sure. Be honest with yourself about if you can pull it off and afford the training cost.

 

I suggest you check out a Chapter 33 GI Bill approved school because a certain percentage of those students are getting a free ride and aren't very motivated. As an architect you should have higher mental abilities than the average ex-grunt using their gi bill benefits so it should be easier to be at the top of one of those schools then at a school that is 100% self-funded motivated students. Typically older students perform better than younger students so that is also in your factor.

 

No offense to grunts, I have tons of respect, but you know what I am talking about if you are in a position to be offended by what I said :-)

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Well, I transitioned from airplanes to helicopters back in 1982 and I am still here, the job market is not good, has not been for some time. That being said, only you can decide what is best for you, that and your wife and kids get a say in it. I am not saying that its not doable, but its a long tough road to get to anything that would even be considered a decent amount of pay. George Constanza aka Art Vaderlay aside, he had a good run as a fake architect or the actor Jason Alexander did. Maybe staying an Architect and going around as a fake helicopter pilot might be the way to go, I am sure the pay is a whole lot better. Kidding aside of course.

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Im just curious what your yearly income is right now? Mortgage? Insurance? Does your wife work? Is your entire family ready to move so you can follow your first job offer?

Just read many of these posts from young CFIs talking about how tough it is to get that first break. And even then, many are struggling still. Only you can decide in the end. Just because you are 37 doesnt mean those breaks will come any easier.

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If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. The statistics of jobs show that 3.6 people out of a million are pilots. 1 of those are helicopter pilots.

 

You either want it or you don't. If you want it, you will succeed! If you don't, you will spends lots of money for nothing.

 

My advise, make sure your wife loves you, supports you, knows your crazy, know your friends think your crazy, tell yourself your not crazy, and jump!( not literally, but in the sense of go for it).

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I love what I do, and have loved flying helicopters since I started in 1968. It isn't always 'cool' and when it's not pleasant, it's really, really hard work.The novelty wears off. Unless this is something that touches your soul and competes you in a way that's not apparent to anybody- don't do this. You will spend a lot of money and a huge amount or your life just trying to reach "journeyman" status, and even then, conventional success will be very much influenced by chance. If you can lay down at night satisfied with the cost you paid to do what you did that day and know that you may never fly again...

 

Is it "dangerous"? Yes. No. Maybe.

I am told that my particular specialty is statistiscally the most dangerous job in the US, but I don't see it that way. I'm very methodical in my preparation, conservative in my decisions (I know accidents happen to 'good pilots') and have a real world escape plan that carefully considers my personal limits when I work. I can fly for years knowing I'm the only pilot who didn't fly on some days but also the only one in the air certain other days. I'd be happy to be fired for each and every one of those decisions. Which is all to say I think each of determines the level of risk...

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Not sure if we have talked but we should. My wife has a masters in architecture and i know things there have been tough lately. I also know what it's like to stand outside of the fence at the airport and wish i was on the other side. I would be glad to spend some time with you and talk about the possibilities/challenges. This business is tough, and many flight schools won't tell you that. You can find a ton of negative stuff here on VR (some of which you should pay close attention to) but you can also find positive stuff. Some of us just want people to know how hard it really is and how easy it can be to end up on the wrong path, which, ends in failure. Sometimes having little or nothing to do with the person trying to make it. You are doing well to research from the start, the more you do the better chance of success you will have.

We have three or four professionals training now that have chosen to switch careers at about your age, but they did their research and have accepted the risk, which is great. I honestly think it's less for the serious people that have had other careers and bring more to the table in some ways. But it is still hard and you must pick your path carefully and stay focused.

 

Note: i came back to add that they all have kept their current jobs and are training when they can.. something most in the industry will highly recommend. The schedule is tough but if you want it bad enough, you will make it happen. And, this sort of schedule will be very similar to the first few years of your career, it's a good litmus test as to how your family life will be for a while.

Anyway, i will be at Help-Ops all week except Wednesday, you can call on my cell and we can meet there, or anywhere else. I will be at Air Methods on Wednesday so down by Centennial.

Let me know what works.

Sincerely,

dp

cell phone sent via pm

ps, this offer of course goes out to anyone, if you are near and have questions know that i will be happy to stop and meet with you, even if you are looking at, or flying at, another school (we want what’s best for you and there are some great schools out there). If you have lost money at a school, or are having trouble getting your money back that you put on account, don’t just give up, we can connect you with folks that can help with that as well.

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As a 30+ year professional pilot, I can add nothing of substance to what everyone above has said. And that's saying something because I usually go on and on and on and... okay, nevermind.

 

I will say one thing though: The road to actually being a professional pilot (that is, one getting paid for his services, not just a pilot with a Commercial Rating) is long. People delude or convince themselves that it'll happen quickly. It will not. Maybe peope don't fully understand how long "years" can be. And believe me, it'll take years...maybe more years than you anticipate before you get a decent "journeyman" job (e.g. full-time entry-level turbine).

 

You not only have to ask yourself if you can financially afford it, but also if you can afford the tremendous amount of time this endeavor could require? Because it WILL be discouraging.

 

I am mentoring a couple of young Commercial pilots right now who range in flight time from below 500 hours to right at 2,000 hours. Even the 2,000-hour guy is having trouble getting a job (because he's picky and only wants to do certain things). These pilots are all eager, talented and dedicated...and have been at it for years...but they cannot find full-time employment just yet although I'm confident they will. Still, I know how discouraging it is for them. Nobody likes to wait. And it's hard to reconcile something in your mind when you kinda/sorta thought it would take "two to three" years and it stretches out into "three to four." Or more.

 

I'm usually the voice of doom-and-gloom...the one who says, "Don't do it! Don't waste your time!" But I've softened a bit in my old age. Now I simply shrug and say, "Do whatever makes you happy. Know the risks, and try to come to terms with the true cost." Like, for instance it may cost you your relationship. I've seen many a pilot lose a girlfriend because flying meant more to him than she did. Hey, for a lot of us it's true: We love flying more than anything and...well...anyone. So now I say: If that's you, then jump in! You only live once. Meh- girlfriends/wives/boyfriends come and go; not everyone has good relationships with their parents or kids. You have to figure out what it is you really want out of life. And no, you can't have it all.

 

I do know a few pilots with nice houses and stable, happy marriages. Successes? Well...these are guys who also spend HALF THEIR LIFE away from home as pilots in the Gulf of Mexico. So there is a "cost" even for them. The cost is that they have to spend so much time away from their spouse which would not be the case if they were normal. And yes, you could end up in EMS where you can be home every day...but not everyone is suited for EMS work - not everyone likes it (me, for instance).

 

As for safety...hmm. Yes, even experienced, high-time pilots crash and kill themselves. When you fly for a living, you have to accept the fact that a tiny decision you make...even one you don't realize you're making...can be fatal. Tiny, "inconsequential" decisions sometimes have big consequences. I do not delude myself that my large amount of flight time protects or precludes me from making a fatal mistake, and I think about that EVERY time I take-off.

 

And finally, since you probably get a million Art Vandelay jokes, I will graciously refrain from making one. Hey, just be thankful you're not a lawyer!

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Wow, thanks for all the tremendous feedback, can't tell you how helpful it is to get such detailed, expert advice.

 

I'm thinking that if I move forward with this I won't end up flying to rigs in some remote destination, but since I love the idea of teaching and probably can't give up my architecture profession (at least in the short term), perhaps getting a CFII cert and then a mix of flying / architecture might be the way to go.

 

Couple more questions...

 

Why is 1,000 to 1,500 flight hours the magic number? Is someone with 1,000 hours really that much better than someone with 800?

 

Is there that much difference between flying a turbine helo and a piston helo?

 

Thanks again, what a great forum & aviation (helo) community!!

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Why is 1,000 to 1,500 flight hours the magic number? Is someone with 1,000 hours really that much better than someone with 800?

 

I've been given many answers to that question, such as;

- Insurance requires 1000hrs because turbine helicopters are so much more expensive than the R22/R44s low timers typically fly.

 

- Requiring 1000-1500 hrs helps reduce the number of resumes an operator gets after posting an ad (although I hear that they still get hundreds from 1000 hr pilots).

 

- In the Grand Canyon there's an organization called TOPS who has set the hiring requirement for tour operations at the rediculously high 1000 hr mark.

 

 

Is there that much difference between flying a turbine helo and a piston helo?

 

 

Not much, no. Certainly nothing that requires 1000 hrs!,...I thought to myself during my first hour in a Jet Ranger!

 

I'm no where near 1000 hrs, but I'd love to find out if I could handle tour flying in the South Rim just as well as one of these "magic" thousand hour guys!,...however as long as TOPS is around I'll never get to test that.

 

Anyway,...back to time building! :D

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Its insurance reasons. That being said, operators hire all the time when you have less, or dont quite have all the certifications they listed. The insurance will charge them more for low time pilots, and operators will have to pay to train you for certs you dont already have.

 

Thats why you will often see new pilots get paid less on their first year. The operator is paying the same, but its just not going in your pocket.

 

Show up with the hours, the certs, and a good attitude and the pay offered will often reflect it back!

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Why is 1,000 to 1,500 flight hours the magic number? Is someone with 1,000 hours really that much better than someone with 800?

 

Don’t believe the hype. There are no “magic” numbers. To say so means you believe in magic itself........

 

In my experience, employer’s desire pilots who have well-rounded previous experiences and have good attitudes. Sure, insurance underwriters have their targets but ultimately it’s the employer who makes the call. Additionally, your type of previous experience will dictate your ability to move up. That is, a CFII with 800 hours of instruction-given has a much greater chance of moving up than a pilot who built/paid for 1200 hours of time while turning avgas into noise….

 

Regardless, I hate to say it, but look at it from a common sense standpoint. Most entry level helicopter pilot positions fly piston powered machines with passenger carrying limitations. Once you move up into an entry level turbine job, the overall cost of that operation skyrockets and with that comes a huge increase of responsibility/liability. Employers must trust YOU can perform accordingly. Simply put, it has little to do with how many hours you’ve wiggled the sticks. It’s about WHAT you’ve done in the past while wiggling the sticks in addition to, WHO you are……..

 

Edited by Spike
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First answer is both.

 

Second answer, I know of several pilots that have moved on from teaching into jobs that were advertised as needing more hours, or more certs than they carried, and the employer paid for it to train them.

 

The who part....something tells me to not answer that directly, as to respect the operators choice in who they hired and why, but I will say, dont be afraid to apply for a job you want even if your short requirements. It does two things good for you. 1) you might get the job! 2) you open doors of networking which may lead to a job later on.

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Are you refering to entry level turbine jobs, or R44 jobs? And if so, who?

 

 

Which operators do that?

 

They all do.....

 

As an extreme example; two years ago, I met a kid who got hired sweeping the floors for a major NY corporate-for-hire operator. In a relatively short time, this kid went from sweeping floors to a S76 PIC. He’s never operated a piston powered helicopter and never had to build hours as a CFI and, has never worked for anyone else but this Corp operator. This kid was so impressive; the company upgraded him to the fixed wing side as well and no, he never had to fly a piston powered airplane either.....

 

And, as a side note, this kid had never heard of Vertical Reference………

 

It’s not about the “operator”. It’s about YOU……..

 

Edited by Spike
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...dont be afraid to apply for a job you want even if your short requirements. It does two things good for you. 1) you might get the job! 2) you open doors of networking which may lead to a job later on.

 

I've applied to plenty with no positive results, which is why I asked. I can almost understand hiring with fewer hours if you have an amazing personality,...which I don't :lol: , but an employer paying for an additional rating? Damn! That's hitting the lottery!

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Just to help you out a bit, for every personality there is an employer. I have seen many different types come through the school I am at. Both student and CFI. Keep trying, something will happen for you.

 

I read not long ago and it may have been here, a CFI emailed or faxed every school in a state and picked a new state the next day until he landed a job. One of the places that originally told him no was actually who hired him later.

Network and follow up. Always thank them for their time and keep in touch.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here's the way I started looking at a similar journey - in 10 years I can still be a professional or in 10 years I can be a pilot.

 

Not looking for something to happen overnight, but much liek many have already stated, its up to you and your desire. As a propfessional you have leanred things in business and networking that will play to your davantage. Again, it's up to you.

 

Patience and persistence . . . will always win out!

 

You can look around and read and read but at the end of the day it's your life, take ownership!

 

Bets of luck . . .

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