Looks like I won't be sitting for the Sept. board. I need some advice.

[JLOWELL]

Hi all,

Well my packet is complete and as follows, but I hit a bump in the road. I need a moral waiver..

 

I need it for having more than 4 minor non-traffic violations. 4 of my tickets were due to being a DESIGNATED DRIVER! lol go me. when I was 19 it happened twice. I would be driving somewhere and my friends would be drinking in the vehicle, I was not drinking either time and got pulled over. Getting me an Minor in Possession of Beer, and transporting open container x2. Released at scene both times. Well due to the list of infractions battalion wont send the waiver up. Pissed the commander of my recruiting station off, who totally backs me, and fought for my case with no luck. What should I do? Change battalions? Its frustrating that my record doesnt show that actually I was being somewhat responsible (emphasis on somewhat I should have told them to throw the beer before entering I know)

 

25 M

asvab:93-gt-128

sift:62

Flight phys complete.

pft: 263

BS degree: gpa: 3.55

lor: Senator inhofe, Ret. Army Major (aviator) Captain for delta airlines, cw4, college prof, boss at current job.

[ftxag76]

I wouldn't worry about it. I had to get a moral waiver for speeding tickets and got selected. If speeding tickets are the only thing to need a moral waiver for, your good.

[UH60L-IP]

I wouldn't worry about it. I had to get a moral waiver for speeding tickets and got selected. If speeding tickets are the only thing to need a moral waiver for, your good.

 

I would worry about it. He didn't say speeding tickets. He said more than 4 "non-traffic" violations. He expands with "minor in possession of alcohol" x 2 and open containers. That doesn't even account for all of the "more than 4" non-traffic violations.

 

Nobody has ever gotten a ticket for being a designated driver so own up. Perhaps for other things incidental to being a designated driver, but surely not because of it.

 

Here's the straight shooting that your recruiter didn't give you. You are not likely to be selected, especially in today's climate. Your current battalion won't send your waiver up because they believe they are informed enough to know the outcome. They are in all likelihood correct. Another battalion may be tried but my guess is that they will think the same. Supposing your new battalion does send it up and you do well, passing the board and all, you are still likely to be a "non-select."

 

Waivers exist for a reason. They give an otherwise good candidate a shot, but even that puts you behind those that don't have them assuming all else is equal. Alcohol is a pretty serious infraction, especially in aviation. Multiple alcohol infractions constitute a blazing red, on fire, red flag. That is something that can, and has, removed current aviators from service. It therefore stands to reason that it is a discriminator to getting selected.

 

You may have been "responsible" by being a designated driver (been there, done that) and good on you, but something else (speeding or what have you) was still infracted by you. Unfortunately that put you in the situation you found yourself in. At best, you were in the company of people committing a crime, multiple times. The frequency of past behavior removes the possibility of an "isolated incident" meriting consideration of the waiver (likely why you were denied) and is predictive of future behavior.

 

Best of luck to you however you decide and whatever path you choose but the above is what your recruiter should have told you from the get go.

[av8rnik]

They are serious here at Rucker about alcohol. The way it is briefed to us, you get a DUI or have an issue that is alcohol related you are done and will get processed out. Try to plead your case to the CG, but good luck with that. Not to say that you will have issues if selected, but it continues to happen here. I can imagine that what runs through their mind is why take a chance when there are X umber of fully qualified packets that don't. But if it were me, keep fighting. Make the USAREC board be the one to tell you yes or no, not the recruiting battalion. It all comes down to how much you want it.

[JLOWELL]

 

I would worry about it. He didn't say speeding tickets. He said more than 4 "non-traffic" violations. He expands with "minor in possession of alcohol" x 2 and open containers. That doesn't even account for all of the "more than 4" non-traffic violations.

 

Nobody has ever gotten a ticket for being a designated driver so own up. Perhaps for other things incidental to being a designated driver, but surely not because of it.

 

Here's the straight shooting that your recruiter didn't give you. You are not likely to be selected, especially in today's climate. Your current battalion won't send your waiver up because they believe they are informed enough to know the outcome. They are in all likelihood correct. Another battalion may be tried but my guess is that they will think the same. Supposing your new battalion does send it up and you do well, passing the board and all, you are still likely to be a "non-select."

 

Waivers exist for a reason. They give an otherwise good candidate a shot, but even that puts you behind those that don't have them assuming all else is equal. Alcohol is a pretty serious infraction, especially in aviation. Multiple alcohol infractions constitute a blazing red, on fire, red flag. That is something that can, and has, removed current aviators from service. It therefore stands to reason that it is a discriminator to getting selected.

 

You may have been "responsible" by being a designated driver (been there, done that) and good on you, but something else (speeding or what have you) was still infracted by you. Unfortunately that put you in the situation you found yourself in. At best, you were in the company of people committing a crime, multiple times. The frequency of past behavior removes the possibility of an "isolated incident" meriting consideration of the waiver (likely why you were denied) and is predictive of future behavior.

 

Best of luck to you however you decide and whatever path you choose but the above is what your recruiter should have told you from the get go.

Appreciate the response. At this point it is somewhat hard (impossible) for me to throw my hands up after pursuing this for a year, and spending quite a bit of money (echocardiogram for flight phys. alone was $2000) it is almost incomprehensible for me to think the journey is over. I have dedicated my life to pursueing this.

 

I did own up, I'm not hiding anything or I would have gotten DUI's both times. I hadnt been drinking, my friends had, I drove and they brought beer on board. One time I was speeding (7 over) and the other time my taillight was out. It's all irrelavant I guess, since I got the tickets and I didnt tell them to throw it out. This was my first year in college. I rarely ever drink alcohol now. I'm married and work as an RN in an emergency room, I am a responsible adult. My tickets during my first year of college are not an accurate pridictor of my future. I just need a way on conveying this on paper.

 

I have been granted permission to sit at the state national guard board as a civilian by the Col., but that is next year and I am not sure that this moral thing may become an issue then. Does anyone know? The WO recruiter said it should be fine, but I cant find reg's on ANG.

 

All in all, I am going to chase this dream until every stone is unturned and would like anyones advise in proceeding! So fire away, ears are open.

[UH60L-IP]

I have been granted permission to sit at the state national guard board as a civilian by the Col., but that is next year and I am not sure that this moral thing may become an issue then. Does anyone know? The WO recruiter said it should be fine, but I cant find reg's on ANG.

 

My informed opinion is that the NG would be your best chance of making it in, at least right now. States have vastly different criterion for selecting a candidate than big Army. If the state is in need of aviators, they can pretty much set the standards the way they see fit. They are the ones making the decision as far as selection or not. They are not sending their packet to some far off land and hoping for the best.

 

I know in more than one way what it is like to put a lot of time, effort, and resources into something just to hit a road block. While "if you want it bad enough" is a good motivator it is not always reflective of reality. I've had things that I really wanted badly and worked hard for but they never came to fruition. I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here but that's life.

 

Like I said, I wish you the best of luck. I have no reason to think you are a bad guy. I'm just being honest when I say that your chances on active duty right now are probably slim.

 

If I were in your shoes I would take a serious look at the National Guard.

[Sasquatch]

Being turned down myself (twice), I have been where you are now. I have invested years of time and effort in my ultimate goal, doing things in the Army to counteract my past and not let someone reading my packet assume history will repeat itself. I want this more than the Army needs me for this. And yes, I've heard it many times before: "Why would they choose mine with waivers over someone's that doesn't?" It has been said by senior Warrant Officers on this forum that times are changing for the Army, and they will change again and again. The need to fill seats will wax and wane with these changing times. I truly believe that my pursuit will result in success through determination. The catalyst will be approved waivers, in sync with the need to fill seats. I will continue to submit my ever-improving application, and I encourage you to do the same.