Goldy Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 Congress is concerned! http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?cmp=ALTW:L5bCongress should be concerned! Another example of the feds throwing away the constitution. Even the field agents should know better, regardless of what their bonehead supervisors say. Hmmm, lets go back to say, day 3 of the academy and the 4th amendment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 Congress should be concerned! Another example of the feds throwing away the constitution. Even the field agents should know better, regardless of what their bonehead supervisors say. Hmmm, lets go back to say, day 3 of the academy and the 4th amendment.Is that what they taught on day 3 of the academy you attended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 So what if I'm just renting the aircraft? Do they have to get permission from the owner to seach it, or can I agree to one? If they bother to ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bear Posted September 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I would suggest reviewing the renters agreement. Who has absolute authority of the aircraft in a situation like this? Is it the owner or the renter(PIC)? I'm going to guess that, because this is virgin territory for GA, that it needs to be considered. If I were the owner, and you allowed the feds to pull this sh*t and search my aircraft without my permission, it would be the last time you flew my aircraft. If the FAA wants to perform a ramp check, then comply. If the feds want to test their authority without the FAA, call the local FSDO and ask for assistance/representation. A common factor in the instances that I have read about, mentions intimidation and assumption of compliance based on fear. Learn and know your rights and responsibilities and have your Go Pro camera rolling when and if it does happens. On a lighter note, does anyone have the handy AOPA flash card that tells you how to handle these situations? I've heard it mentioned but haven't seen it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 You guys sure know how to get yourselves all worked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Is that what they taught on day 3 of the academy you attended?Hell, that was so long ago I don't even remember! I think day 3 was some DI yelling in my face about threads on my uniform! But at some point, yes, we had some lengthy discussion reviewing each of the constitutional amendments and how they apply to LE. Specifically on the 4th since it so applies. Sorry about being worked up, but yes, I think the whole thing is a crock of sh*t. If I wanted no rights, I would move south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bear Posted September 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Can you support your comment, Flying Pig? IF NOT, feel free to get lost. I, for one am done with the sh*t talking on this forum. If you can't contribute, I'm not interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Goldy, If you are an LEO, then it's interesting that your aren't aware of how this works and how the constitution would apply in these situations. Are you in a position where you work with federal agents, narc task forces or JTTFs? What LE can and can't do in these situations has been pretty well established by case law. None of this is new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnr032 Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 edit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I would suggest reviewing the renters agreement. Who has absolute authority of the aircraft in a situation like this? Is it the owner or the renter(PIC)? I'm going to guess that, because this is virgin territory for GA, that it needs to be considered. If I were the owner, and you allowed the feds to pull this sh*t and search my aircraft without my permission, it would be the last time you flew my aircraft. If the FAA wants to perform a ramp check, then comply. If the feds want to test their authority without the FAA, call the local FSDO and ask for assistance/representation. A common factor in the instances that I have read about, mentions intimidation and assumption of compliance based on fear. Learn and know your rights and responsibilities and have your Go Pro camera rolling when and if it does happens. On a lighter note, does anyone have the handy AOPA flash card that tells you how to handle these situations? I've heard it mentioned but haven't seen it myself.BB Here it is: http://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/AOPA/Home/News/All%20News/2013/June/CBPGuidelinesKneeboard.pdf Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Goldy, If you are an LEO, .27 years and yes, I've worked with the feds once or twice, not by choice. I don't work the areas I used to years ago, I'm one of the good guys now.....but I still think these fed stops are just harassment and plain illegal....even by the feds rules, which as I'm sure you know, they think they have no rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/us/security-searches-of-private-planes-raise-alarm-703428/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver-eagle Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I would suggest reviewing the renters agreement. Who has absolute authority of the aircraft in a situation like this? Is it the owner or the renter(PIC)? I'm going to guess that, because this is virgin territory for GA, that it needs to be considered. If I were the owner, and you allowed the feds to pull this sh*t and search my aircraft without my permission, it would be the last time you flew my aircraft. If the FAA wants to perform a ramp check, then comply. If the feds want to test their authority without the FAA, call the local FSDO and ask for assistance/representation. A common factor in the instances that I have read about, mentions intimidation and assumption of compliance based on fear. Learn and know your rights and responsibilities and have your Go Pro camera rolling when and if it does happens. On a lighter note, does anyone have the handy AOPA flash card that tells you how to handle these situations? I've heard it mentioned but haven't seen it myself.The AOPA card in question. This advertisement for the AOPA Legal Plan is brought to you at the expense of a lifetime membership to same.The short answer is no LEO has the right to search your plane without consent or a warrant. You should be respectful but mention, and have them take note, that you do not consent to the search.Of course, they might detain you and the aircraft until that warrant is produced.CBPGuidelinesKneeboard.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Red 22 Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 What! An "EPA" raid in Chicken, Alaska??? Oh dear. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/05/gold-miners-in-remote-alaska-town-reportedly-miffed-over-epa-raids/#ixzz2fewq3Yx7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/September/24/aopa-keeps-pressure-on-as-cbp-moves-to-keep-records-secret.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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