"Eyes outside"

[rubidug]

I say great work Jay!

I live in a high fire risk area. I would have welcomed the warning!

The phone message gave me goose bumps~

[pilot#476398]

Circling a fire at night in a Robbie? Any worries about suddenly losing visibility due to smoke? Never done it so thought I'd ask.

[avbug]

I've flown a lot of fire in Region 5. The first time I did a night drop, it was just the other side of Tehachapi from Lancaster.

 

Air Attack platforms often work after dark. I have. If an air attack is up and gets a fire report, commonly the AA will bump over to the other fire.

 

Regardless, there is no valid reason for the private citizen to go try to play hero (as those in the video seemed to think they were).

 

Today I ferried an air tanker and while enroute I found a fire. It was several miles to my right. I'm an experienced, carded, current, and qualified fire pilot. I didn't go busting over to the smoke to stick my nose where it didn't belong. I reported the smoke, gave a brief size-up, a general lat/long, and moved on. As one should.

[Spike]

Up in the north part of R5 and specifically in my AOA, we haven’t seen many Federal incidents and most large incidents are managed by Cal Fire. In all the years as a CWN for Cal Fire, we’ve never seen nighttime wildland ops….

[Flying Pig]

What agencies in CA are doing night ops? I think LA County Fire is. Who else?

[IGTbuilt]

avbug:

 

I am curious your motivation with regard to the fire in Bend recently. Did something bad happen that I am not aware of? Did Jay and/or Keaton do something that inhibited the most efficient response to this fire? Was it extinguished expeditiously? Were all homes and persons protected? Must one be a seasoned firefighter to contribute in a positive way? Please help me understand why you have such vitriol.

 

I could ask these questions endlessly as I just do not understand why anyone would be interested in spending their time in such a negative space. You seem to have nothing productive to share with the world about an emergency that could not have been responded to, and averted more successfully. Right? It was responded to, and the fire was put out in a most timely fashion. Right?

 

This is a world of results, and the results speak for themselves. Do they not?

 

 

I will proudly share that I know and fully respect Jay Bunning. A close friend of mine. He is a man that always looks to do the right thing, is well-studied, intelligent and devoted. If you had the opportunity to get to know him, my guess(and hope) is that you would desire to retract what you have written. Your anonymous rants with regard to this situation solve nothing, and he doesn't deserve any of this. And I have news for you, nobody does. It serves no purpose. There is nothing redeeming that comes from this type of criticism I also know Keaton and he also garners my respect. He is a young and very dedicated aviator. His heart and mind are in the right place. Are yours?

 

Why you choose to attack either of them is beyond me.

 

Getting back to my statement of your anonymity, WHO ARE YOU? If you intend to continue your assault on the people of the world striving to be contributing members of their community, step forward. Let your peers, co-workers, and family know its you.

 

Proudly own your statements.

 

You seem to be a knowledgable individual when it comes to firefighting. Why don't you put that expertise to use in a positive manner? Educate, don't attack. Turn this situation around.

 

And if for whatever inexplicable reason you are simply full of hate and need a forum to exorcise your demons, stop typing. Nobody wants to read it.

 

USE YOUR POWERS FOR GOOD.

 

Most Sincerely,

 

Jason Wilson

Bend, Oregon

Proud friend of Jay and Keaton

[avbug]

Must one be a seasoned firefighter to contribute in a positive way?

 

To be over the fire, yes. Carded, qualified, and participating. Otherwise, report, and stay the hell away. They did nothing to fight the fire. They reported the fire, and spent the rest of the video talking about how big and active the fire was, and how cool they were. They were very impressed with themselves, but frankly weren't very impressive to hear or watch. A couple of wannabe heroes, one of whom set a poor example for a student, and while claiming to be a qualified and experienced wildland firefighter, very obviously is NOT. Otherwise he'd already know what he's been told, rather than do what he did, and he wouldn't be arguing with it.

 

Please help me understand why you have such vitriol.

 

No vitriol, but definite ignorance on your part and that of your friends. There's no helping you understand; if you don't understand why they shouldn't have been over the fire, why this stupidity about waking people up, about a need to stay over the fire once reported, and about the inability to properly report, to say nothing of being as impressed as they were with the fire (a sure sign of inexperinece) and themselves (vanity and inexperience), then there's no telling you anything. You folks already thing you know it all.

 

t was responded to, and the fire was put out in a most timely fashion. Right?

 

They didn't respond to it and they didn't put it out. They simply made a phone call, then jerked around talking about how cool they thought they were. That's not firefighting, and their presence wasn't required to fight the fire.

 

Getting back to my statement of your anonymity, WHO ARE YOU? If you intend to continue your assault on the people of the world striving to be contributing members of their community, step forward. Let your peers, co-workers, and family know its you.

 

My employer knows who I am, and pays me quite handsomely to fight fire. The government personnel with whom I work know who I am and gave good reviews this season, as always.

 

I don't freelance on fires. I don't go play hero or try to impress students, myself, or the world at large the way those two did, and I don't post videos of myself for the world to adore. I simply get dispatched and fight the fires I'm assigned. These two made a phone call, and it should have ended there.

 

You seem to be a knowledgable individual when it comes to firefighting. Why don't you put that expertise to use in a positive manner? Educate, don't attack. Turn this situation around.

 

After the years doing this that I've put in (and been paid to do), I ought to be knowledgeable. That's largely irrelevant, however. Educate? Already done. If you and your proud buddies weren't so busy being defensive, you'd know that. You don't like the education, and want to argue about it.

 

Do this: go get qualified to work that fire, then come back and talk about it. Until then, you really don't have much of a leg to stand on, do you?

 

USE YOUR POWERS FOR GOOD.

 

Powers? Do you think this is a Spiderman movie? It was a fire. Powers? What powers would those be?

 

I'm an experienced, qualified firefighter with a fairly broad background in the air and on the ground working structure and wildland fires (and a lot of other types of flying, too). That's experience, that's qualification, and that's what I get paid for. There are no "powers."

 

It's really quite simple. If you don't have reason to be over that fire, then don't be. Call it in, and stay clear. Same on the ground.

 

I believe I gave an example above of very recently passing a wildfire; I made a smoke report, stayed clear, and pressed on. I was in an equipped aircraft, and I'm current, qualified, and carded. I could have gone to the smoke, but as a non-participating aircraft, I'd have only done so if directed to do so by the dispatch having jurisdiction over that fire. I know better. Your buddies apparently do not. They've been educated. Stop bitching about it and learn something.

Edited October 10, 2013 by avbug

[SBuzzkill]

Nevermind...

Edited October 10, 2013 by SBuzzkill

[aeroscout]

Nevermind...

Say it like Roseanna Roseannadana !

[troll.detector]

AvBug I think you are missing the point - if it was just about education why do you insist on name calling and personal attacks?

 

For example - "self-perceived heroes" "stupid" "foolish" "piss poor student of your training" "play hero lookey-loo" "A couple of wannabe heroes", etc, etc.

 

How about being a bit more professional and courteous in the way you address people on this forum?

 

 

As for the question of who you are -

I think Jason was wondering if you would you be so abrasive if you were not anonymous?

 

 

 

And as for AvBug wrote Today " I know better. Your buddies apparently do not. They've been educated. Stop bitching about it and learn something."

 

and

AvBug today wrote:

"there's no telling you anything. You folks already thing you know it all." and "Educate? Already done."

 

Yet over two weeks ago (09/28/13) Jay wrote:

"AvBug: you are right, I'm sure you have much more experience and I sincerely respect your opinions/advice. This forum discussion is degrading into personal attacks and so how about message me your number and we can discuss this on the phone- id like to learn more from you and until then, agree to disagree. "

 

The guy (Jay) admitted that you (AvBug) have much experience and advice and he offered for you to contact him directly to receive that advice - rather than continue with the personal attacks. But based on your continued abusive tone on this post, I'm guessing you declined that offer - as it seems you prefer to stay anonymous, dishing out insults rather than take the opportunity to speak to the guy in person and make it all about civil and considerate education. Or am I wrong? Did you contact him directly as he requested?

 

This forum can be many things - a place for networking, education, friendship and by "power" I think Jason means you have the ability/power to help shape this forum to be a positive place and you are failing badly on this post. "Check your attitude"..

[avbug]

You're five posts into participation on this site, and already an expert.

 

I don't network.

 

I'm not looking for a friend.

 

I'm not interested in reshaping anyone.

 

You see a fire, report it and stay the hell away. Your'e not a hero, no matter how much you tell yourself to the contrary.

[Jay Bunning]

The guy (Jay) admitted that you (AvBug) have much experience and advice and he offered for you to contact him directly to receive that advice - rather than continue with the personal attacks. But based on your continued abusive tone on this post, I'm guessing you declined that offer - as it seems you prefer to stay anonymous, dishing out insults rather than take the opportunity to speak to the guy in person and make it all about civil and considerate education. Or am I wrong? Did you contact him directly as he requested?

Nope, he did not.

[troll.detector]

avbug said:

"You're five posts into participation on this site, and already an expert."

Oh. I see. You think level of 'expertise' is linked to the number of posts?! That explains a lot.

 

avbug said:

"I'm not looking for a friend."

[Tick]

 

avbug said:

"I'm not interested in reshaping anyone."

Reshaping anyone? Well firstly I said helping shape the forum (" you have the ability/power to help shape this forum to be a positive place") - I wasn't talking of 'reshaping people'. You miss the point.

 

Jay said:

"Nope, he did not."

Yeah I didn't think so, and from the way avbug has conducted himself on this post/topic it appears (on this subject at the very least) he's not here to be helpful, positive, professional or courteous, so I doubt you were missing much.

 

avbug said:

"You see a fire, report it and stay the hell away. Your'e not a hero, no matter how much you tell yourself to the contrary."

Yes. Yes. Yes - I hear you: "no overfly fire, not heroes, etc etc" - you are like a broken record! - My post was not arguing against your clearly stated (overstated) opinion on that- but again you've missed the point... Try this - accept everyone has heard you thoughts on fires, put that rant to one side, and then try re-reading some of the previous posts and see if you get anything from them..."A good pilot is always learning" :-)

 

Now we await avbugs next inevitable* post....(and who has money on it being abusive?)

 

*in an effort to increase his 'expertise' level and, of course, have the last word.

[aeroscout]

I'm Spartacus, and I'm getting the last word.