Yamer Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) on a side note.... govt shut down and everyone is throwing blame around... im blaming the kiowa... its all your fault scout program, all your fault.... Edited October 1, 2013 by Yamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Ha. Coming from someone that works on the bottomless money pit known as the Apache. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 yep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 yep... It's all your fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 its all these over koalafied applicants around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_P148 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Afarcryfromsane, since you don't have a set of wings your opinion on what pilots are and are not means jack squat. Regardless of what they may or may not have on their chest, I know dudes who could fly circles around pilots who have been in combat, when they have not themselves. Just based on experience in the aircraft. A CIB or CAB or whatever little boy scout badge is on some dudes chest has very little to do with their competence. When you actually get some time in an aircraft then you can talk, until then stop talking about things you don't have experience in and go sit in the corner. I disagree, The experiences you learn in combat really do make you a better and more well rounded aviator. I really could care less how good of a stick you are your'e types are. The AFCS fly's the aircraft anyways, we are just there to push buttons and talk. You don't become a pilot in command for how well you control the aircraft you become one through decision making and knowledge. You are truly ignorant to think that experience on the ground isn't valuable as a pilot. Isn't that why you Marine officers have to do ground work as well? FAC anyone? The disconnect between the other services and the Army is that Army pilots work hand in hand with the ground units in order to provide efficient and effective air coverage. Most of the pilot's in the Army were enlisted prior and have knowledge of how ground units operate. When a Seal commander is in the back of the aircraft and is asking me to pick an LZ, Don't you think my prior knowledge as an infantryman helps me make that decision? I have always had a problem with the narrow mindedness of the Marines and the other branches of the military. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To add to the argument for the OH-58, The sensors on ISR will never replace the naked eye of the 58 pilot's. I have flown countless missions inserting troops on hasty targets that the 58 dudes have found by flying ridiculously low to the ground. Our enemy knows how to counter our EOS systems i.e. blankets or vegitation, it would only make sense that we continue to use the 58 or an equivalent platform. I mean even with the Cav's ridiculous hats and spurs and all that crap their role is extremely effective and relevant. plus, they are the cheapest to operate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotdogs Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 First don't call me ignorant or narrow minded. I just have different views on why the Kiowa is not as viable as it used to be - and shocklingly some people in the Army agree. Pot calling the kettle black. AFCS provides stabilization for the aircraft so we don't look like a drunk college chick stumbling out of a bar trying to fly our aircraft. They don't pull the aircraft off during a 30 degree dive at night with no illum and reset your section in the objective area without hitting each other or busting the stack or running through a GTL. I never said going to combat isn't beneficial to your career but it's not the be all end all that some make it out to be. Secondly, FACs are pilots who go on a tour after they been in the fleet as an aviator for awhile and they also still goto JTAC school before going to their unit. So not apples and oranges. Anything that can be taught about picking an LZ can be taught to a pilot faster and just as effective. I stand by original comment. Fair enough to disagree. Every time I disagree with anything related to how the Army does business people get pretty defensive around here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d10 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 AFCS also won't help you land in the dust under zero illum. Or pick up patients when the best LZ near the ground troops is barely big enough for a 58. I've had two friends killed in separate incidents because their pilots just weren't good enough on the controls. An understanding of the battlefield is also critical but good stick skills are sadly underrated in the Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_P148 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 AFCS also won't help you land in the dust under zero illum. Or pick up patients when the best LZ near the ground troops is barely big enough for a 58. I've had two friends killed in separate incidents because their pilots just weren't good enough on the controls. An understanding of the battlefield is also critical but good stick skills are sadly underrated in the Army. I would beg to differ with M models but that's another point. I agree with you about the dust landings but sadly there is no standard, so people all over the Army do them differently, it isn't just a VMC approach. All the stick skills in the world are not going to help you land in heavy dust, it takes two pilot's and the crew in the back and lots of practice. You can't expect one person with amazing "stick skills" to land it by themselves especially with the unforgiving terrain of Afghanistan. It's not like we are doing barrel rolls and split S turns. So this goes back to my point, when I have banged up a bird, it has been with junior folks in dust under goggles in combat when I was doing more of my share of the tasks in the aircraft. Combined with a no wind condition and all the stick skills in the world aren't going to help you part the dust and see the ground. Medevac LZ's don't even get me started on that, you guys rarely even do a low recon! So you use stick skills to mitigate landing in crappy unsuitable LZ's? There is a fine line between being bold and heroic on MED missions and being just reckless. I have seen a lot of dumb crap go down on CAT A med launches. Including crews taking off without goggles night unaided? Landing in Dust with a tailwind? Almost flying in to Pakistan? I think a clear calm head and situation awareness will trump some of those precious stick skills. Sorry back on topic. @Hotdogs, Agree to disagree. I will leave are argument at the fact I have never flown with the Marines and you probably have not flown with the Army and seen 58's effectively used. So our opinions are just that, opinions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redpatcher Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Well poop... My first choice of airframes was for sure going to be a 58! Hopefully by the time I get in they'll rethink their decision so I can fly scouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Well that brief sucked. Hopefuls: think about flying something else. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Well that brief sucked. Hopefuls: think about flying something else. Seriously.Care to expand? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) I will in time when its more official. Edited October 11, 2013 by akscott60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1237051 Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I guess 47-60-64-58 is my new wishlist. Pity that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Why are you getting briefed rumors? PM me if you don't want to talk about it on here. Edited October 11, 2013 by SBuzzkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) All right so lets say this does happen and the Kiowa goes away. What does the Army do with the pilots? Edited October 11, 2013 by SBuzzkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Very good question. I foresee a combination of people leaving and transferring airframes. Maybe even changing branches. Apparently our branch manager was pulled from the staff course to work this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redpatcher Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 All right so lets say this does happen and the Kiowa goes away. What does the Army do with the pilots?Dont go breaking my heart. I want a chance to fly this beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 lindsey is probably crying in the corner right now lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcclainm Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Hell, I'm being moody as anything because this was my number one airframe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redpatcher Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 lindsey is probably crying in the corner right now lol I'll pour her a drink and we can salt it with our tears. Come on, what other aircraft out there is so cool where you can fly doors off, nap of the earth, shoot bad guys with an M4 out the window and rack up more flight hours than anyone else.. Not to mention you get to be in scouts so you get to wear a Stetson haha. You really do get to be a flying cowboy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 I really am curious what Bco is doing. Anyone have friends near selection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnr032 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Although I have been seperated from this community for a long time, I hate to hear that the Army is retiring and not replacing the -58. It was a good aircraft, with a great mission staffed by really awsome individuals. Are the -58's still at Shell AAF? Do you still have spike knock and spiking ceremonies for each class? (DNR023 is showing his age) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardo09203 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'll pour her a drink and we can salt it with our tears. Come on, what other aircraft out there is so cool where you can fly doors off, nap of the earth, shoot bad guys with an M4 out the window and rack up more flight hours than anyone else.. Not to mention you get to be in scouts so you get to wear a Stetson haha. You really do get to be a flying cowboy. Don't worry, they're about to dump the beret and transition to the stetson for all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) We still need plenty of boat warrants. I can't imagine former 58 guys doing that though. They'd be stopping every 10 mins to look around. Edited October 11, 2013 by Velocity173 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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