Atheist-Pilot: A Dangerous Combination!

[palmfish]

3 pages arguing about whether or not an athiest makes a better pilot than someone who believes in God? Someone revive the Fudged Logbook thread please.

 

Actually, that isn't what this is about at all if you read the original post (which is admittedly difficult since it's written in such an obtuse manner).

 

I personally see it as a philosophical question about the human capacity for creative thought. Unfortunately, the original post has two problems which make it irrevocably flawed:

 

1. It is written by someone who has expressed bigoted opinions in the past (towards religion and sexual orientation) and therefore instills negative bias/hostility in the reader.

 

2. The conclusion is built on a slippery slope fallacy of logic (as previously mentioned) and is therefore untenable.

[nightsta1ker]

3 pages arguing about whether or not an athiest makes a better pilot than someone who believes in God? Someone revive the Fudged Logbook thread please.

Hey there! Let the monster I created die in peace!

[aeroscout]

Hey there! Let the monster I created die in peace!

I was hoping you were still on the forum. Glad to see you are. Not only that, fudging the logbook was the best thread ...ever. It was a crime that your thread was locked. That fudging the logbook thread can use some more fudging.

[pilot#476398]

I was hoping you were still on the forum. Glad to see you are. Not only that, fudging the logbook was the best thread ...ever. It was a crime that your thread was locked. That fudging the logbook thread can use some more fudging.

 

Maybe if we ask him really nicely, he'll unlock it?

[ridethisbike]

You guys want to know the seriously funny part about this thread? The OP hasn't said a damn thing since the 7th post of this thread. That's right. The first page. I bet he's sitting back drinking a beer and laughing while everyone bickers!

[terminal_velo]

The OP hasn't said a damn thing since the 7th post of this thread. That's right. The first page.

 

 

I think he realized he was better off heeding the advice of his holy book, namely Proverbs 17:28.

[Wally]

 

Wrong again. As has already been said in this thread, atheism is not the opposite position of religiosity, it's the lack of religiosity. There is a difference.

 

Obviously, you can not prove evidentially the non-existence of something has been defined as undetectable and existing outside of physical reality. No atheist I know thinks that you can.

 

(For the sake of argument, I'll assume that you are a Christian and believe only in the Christian deities.) You and I have have a lot in common. In fact, we have exactly the same position towards almost all of the 10,000 gods that man has believed in. We don't hold a belief that Krishna is real, that Zeus is real, that the gods of the Native Americans are real. We don't believe in unicorns or fairies either. Neither of us would claim to have evidence that can prove those beings' non-existence, we simply lack the belief that they are real.

 

The only difference between you and I would be that I'm consistent and you are not. You and I can walk for 9,999 steps together in agreement. At the last step before crossing the line from theism to atheism, you will stop and say "no, I won't take this last step". Because I'm consistent in my rationality, I will take that step just like the other 9,999 identical steps.

 

You are 99.9% atheist, I'm 100% atheist. We're really not that different.

 

I'm definitely not an atheist. I'm "listening".

[terminal_velo]

 

I'm definitely not an atheist. I'm "listening".

 

You must not have read (or comprehended) anything that's been written in this thread, as you clearly still don't understand what atheism is.

 

It's not your fault that you're initially ignorant about atheism. The religious zealots of the world have spent centuries unnecessarily demonizing atheists. If you'd like to learn a little bit about atheists and why we are atheists, I'll happily try to educate you. Believe it or not, a theist and an atheist can come to agreement on many things without either compromising his worldview.

 

However, it really seems like your ignorance towards atheism is intentional and you're not interested in a correct understanding. If that's the case (you don't understand the position and don't care to) you have absolutely no business criticizing it—or in the case of the OP, firing people over it.

[aeroscout]

Apologetics.

[500F]

So then Terminal Velocity, since you have pointed out that I am not agnositic because I have been using that term incorrectly please tell me what I am. I do not believe in any creator but I believe there is a possiblity that one could exist, just as I believe that one could not exist. I have seen nothing factual to lead me either direction. Does that make me a theist? because I believe in that possibility? or an athiest?

 

Either way, I know that if I want something done I have to do it. If somehting breaks I have to fix it. Not just using the RFM, but using my mind and all of my physical abilities. Like others have said NR, I find that religous folks are quick to blame or prey when the time gets tough and athiests and confused people continue to try and work things out with out of the box thinking. I think your argument kind of backfired.

[pilot#476398]

So then Terminal Velocity, since you have pointed out that I am not agnositic because I have been using that term incorrectly please tell me what I am. I do not believe in any creator but I believe there is a possiblity that one could exist, just as I believe that one could not exist. I have seen nothing factual to lead me either direction. Does that make me a theist? because I believe in that possibility? or an athiest?

 

 

Sounds like you're an Intependant,...or is that designation just for politics?

[terminal_velo]

I do not believe in any creator ...

 

This makes you an atheist.

[troll.detector]

500F sounds like you are agnostic:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=agnostic

[500F]

500F sounds like you are agnostic:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=agnostic

Thats what I had always thought, I sill go to church with my wife every now and then. Some of the stories have good moral lessons, particularly for kids. Just like Aesops fables, they dont have to be true to be corrct, while I'm on the subject remember the one about Herculeas and the waggoner.

 

A Waggoner was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy

way. At last he came to a part of the road where the wheels sank

half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper

sank the wheels. So the Waggoner threw down his whip, and knelt

down and prayed to Hercules the Strong. "O Hercules, help me in

this my hour of distress," quoth he. But Hercules appeared to

him, and said:

 

"Tut, man, don't sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder

to the wheel."

 

 

The gods help them that help themselves.

 

Aesop,

circa 580BC

Kind of goes to what we were al saying about dependancy on a dieity.

[Wally]

 

You must not have read (or comprehended) anything that's been written in this thread, as you clearly still don't understand what atheism is.

 

It's not your fault that you're initially ignorant about atheism. The religious zealots of the world have spent centuries unnecessarily demonizing atheists. If you'd like to learn a little bit about atheists and why we are atheists, I'll happily try to educate you. Believe it or not, a theist and an atheist can come to agreement on many things without either compromising his worldview.

 

However, it really seems like your ignorance towards atheism is intentional and you're not interested in a correct understanding. If that's the case (you don't understand the position and don't care to) you have absolutely no business criticizing it—or in the case of the OP, firing people over it.

 

It's too rich being accused- twice- of ignorance of orthodox atheism.

[Whistlerpilot]

My personal beliefs have never been inquired about as a condition of employment. His holiness the Dalai Lama is my living hero for his example and teachings of compassion love and peace.

 

Much to my shock my son announced to me that he has become a Pastafarian. At least he could still work for Bob since he believes in a creator.

 

http://www.venganza.org/about/

 

 

How do Pastafarians believe our world was created?
A: We believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the world much as it exists today, but for reasons unknown made it appear that the universe is billions of years old (instead of thousands) and that life evolved into its current state (rather than created in its current form). Every time a researcher carries out an experiment that appears to confirm one of these “scientific theories” supporting an old earth and evolution we can be sure that the FSM is there, modifying the data with his Noodly Appendage. We don’t know why He does this but we believe He does, that is our Faith.

[pilot#476398]

I prefere capellini, its easier to clump around my fork!

[aeroscout]

I prefere capellini, its easier to clump around my fork!

In my younger days I considered being a pedestrian.

Then, a frisbetarian.

Tomorrow, it's linguini, so naturally...

[palmfish]

Thats what I had always thought, I sill go to church with my wife every now and then. Some of the stories have good moral lessons, particularly for kids. Just like Aesops fables, they dont have to be true to be corrct, while I'm on the subject remember the one about Herculeas and the waggoner.

 

A Waggoner was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy

way. At last he came to a part of the road where the wheels sank

half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper

sank the wheels. So the Waggoner threw down his whip, and knelt

down and prayed to Hercules the Strong. "O Hercules, help me in

this my hour of distress," quoth he. But Hercules appeared to

him, and said:

"Tut, man, don't sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder

to the wheel."

The gods help them that help themselves.

 

Aesop,

circa 580BC

Kind of goes to what we were al saying about dependancy on a dieity.

 

Lyle Waggoner would have been rescued by Wonder Woman. Or perhaps Lindsay Wagner...

[nightsta1ker]

Belief in God(s) (Theism) requires a measure of faith. Not believing in God(s) does not. The lack of belief in God(s) is A-Theism. Now, just because you don't believe in God(s) does not mean that you exclude the possibility that there is God(s). It would be foolish to do so. But it would also be foolish to exclude the possibility that there is NO God(s) (<---- DISCLAIMER: OPINION!).

 

I consider myself an Atheist. But I do not exclude the possibility of God(s). I just do not have enough evidence (of either the physical or spiritual kind) to believe in God(s). So I don't. If I ever see or feel anything that changes my mind... well... Then my mind would be changed.

 

I don't close my mind to the idea of God(s). I just don't currently believe in God(s), and I see no reason to. Some would call me agnostic. But I don't agree. The lack of theism that I have makes me an A-theist. I think there are atheists that actively believe that there is absolutely NO God(s) as a fact, for which there is equally scant evidence considering that God(s) are supposedly of the spiritual realm and not subject to measurement or observation (though this train of thought leads to many fallacies when it comes to divine intervention). Still, to say there is no POSSIBILITY of God(s) is as ludicrous as saying that there for sure IS a God(s).

[pilot#476398]

If I recall correctly there was a Spanish dude once (Cortez maybe?) who was thought of as a god by the Aztec I believe, but he turned out to be just a white guy with a beard and some cool sh*t the natives had never seen before!

 

I heard once that when we landed our planes on some remote islands during WWII that some of the natives thought of us and our giant metal birds as gods. When we left they made likenesses of our planes and prayed to them for our return.

 

"Gods" are just misinterpreted technologially advanced people, nothing more! As for a "creator", well, my parents created me, and I believe in their existance!

[terminal_velo]

nightsta1ker is right on.

 

Thats what I had always thought,

 

Sounds to me like you are both, an agnostic atheist.

 

To (over)simplify it, theism/atheism answers the question "Do I believe in a god?", gnostic/agnostic answers "How sure am I?".

 

Both theists and atheists can be either gnostic or agnostic.

[pilot#476398]

Here's question for the non believers (whatever you wish to be called );

 

If one day you find out there is a god, would you worship him?

[terminal_velo]

Depends which god it is! There's 10,000 or so of them, and they all have different stipulations.

[aeroscout]

 

Atheism is not a religion. Clearly you've not read (or have read and not learned anything from) this thread.

 

 

 

You are wrong. This fallacy is something theists have come up with as a way to feel better about holding an irrational worldview.

 

You obviously have no idea what atheism is.

There is no way to prove your worldview is rational and anyone else's worldview is irrational when it comes to faith. Only in the realm of the absolutely measurable and quantitative is that possible. All you can do regarding matters of faith or what someone believes is debate and persuade. When you start describing your opponents as irrational on a subject that is completely subjective you only harm your own argument.