abailey0116 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 So if anyone has read my last topic 'Are there any happy pilots out there', you will know I am in the process of finding the right helicopter school to attend to become a pilot. I have my two choices selected but am torn between the information they are each giving me. Both schools offer two different options; You can go through a college degree program and get certified that way or you just go through their Prefessional Polits Progam. One school said that the reason students go through the college program is that is the only way they can obtain loans to do the program. So my rebuttal was 'does it make you more marketable to have your 'degree' vs just going through the Pilots progam and not getting your degree but still getting all your certifications'? They said no, it will not matter. Your flying hours/experience is what matters. But then, I have my second choice school telling me that having a degree absolutely DOES matter when it comes to applying for a commercial job and to even be 'considered' into their hiring pool for a CFI, you have to do their two year degree program and once hired, they push you to complete your 4 year degree. They also say they have 100% hiring rate into the industry. If Im going to do this, I want to do this right. Im all for doing whatever I can to make myself stand out from other CFI's who might be applying for the same job but I also do not care to have a school tell me I 'need' this two year or four year degree so they can get money out of me for a longer period of time if I really dont need it. So my question to you guys is, do I need a degree to stand out or get hired in this profession? Ive seen quite a few job postings and very rarely do I see that a degree is part of the requirements. For example, if I apply for a job with 1500 flying hours and no degree vs someone who applies to the same job with only 1000 flying hours and a degree, will they be more likely to be called into an interview over me? Thanks for everyones feedback! 3 Quote
pilot#476398 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I'm only about half way to the 1500 hour position so I really have no idea, however I would put my money on a degree not giving you an edge over anyone? It really seems like all they care about is PIC, time in type, and flying experience! I will say though that the main reason you should get a 4 year degree (in a non aviation subject), is to have something to fall back on should you not be able to find a job flying right away,...or ever! I have a 2 year degree and can tell you, it ain't worth sh*t! Quote
cryesis Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) I don't think a degree makes you more marketable over someone who doesnt have a degree. Flight experience and pertinent skills are more likely to help you than a piece of paper saying you went to a bunch of classes. Then again a degree is something that will never hurt you. Is there a big price difference between the two courses? And if you were going to spend 2 years getting a degree in non-aviation why not spend the time at an FAA 147 school to get an A&P? Edited October 15, 2013 by cryesis Quote
bqmassey Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I'm a newbie, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. From what I've seen, a degree can be a factor in hiring. However, a degree probably won't help you near as much as having hours does until later in your career. So, what I would recommend to others is to consider either no degree or an associate's degree that can be finished in about the time it takes you to get your ratings. Get into the job market and start building hours, and then chip away at the degree. Those guys in bachelor's programs will be 2-3 years behind in work experience (flight time) compared to people who started at the same time, got the ratings, and went to work. Quote
WolftalonID Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Obviously schools are where we all get our training. However... Schools are not in the business of making another company hire you. That may be their pitch though. Schools are in the business of taking your money. However they can. Thats how they are profitable. The more they can market towards you and pitch it as having more for you so you can be more successful, then they can make more money by getting you to spend it there. If along the way you succeed and become hired! Awesome for you, and awesome for the school as they use you as part of that percentage. No school can guarantee a job. Its not up to the school on how hard you apply yourself. However, good schools encourage you along the way, groom the hard working students, and hire those who are willing to prove themselves. Degrees.... Up to you based solely on where you want to go with your flying career. Management, or strictly pilot. Quote
apiaguy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Associate degree obtained from courses in conjunction with pro pilot program.... Worthless4 year degree in non aviation program ... Worth something.. But not when it comes to meeting hour requirementsSchool trying to sell you on their associate program... Trying to do good for people but not helpingSkip the associate degree... It costs money you and you don't need it. School was right, they only put people into the program to get loans to fly. Quote
palmfish Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I went to University because, when I was in school, it's just what was expected of me (and required for my commissioning in the Army). Would I do it again today? Yes, probably - I can't imagine not having a post secondary degree. Quote
Mad Dog Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I worked in a different field before switching careers to helicopter pilot. In that field of work I have a degree (astrophysics). Interestingly my current helicopter position requires a degree but I am in a very unique situation. I am working as a CFI at a University in Korea and the visa requires a bachelors degree. Thus the job requires it. I do not even think my boss knows what my degree is in nor does he likely care. That being said, I have not seen many job ads that require a degree (maybe 2). From everything I have seen and heard, most employees do not care, but I am not an employer so I can't answer the question first hand. I would go for the degree if it is something you truly would like to have for reasons beyond a line on your resume. I am glad I have my degree because of what I learned, because I may use it later, and because I loved the experience. Aloha,Margot Quote
Mikemv Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Abailey, PM sent. Check Private Messages Edited October 15, 2013 by Mikemv Quote
swan3609 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I hope not. I gave up on my engineering degree to go get my A&P while starting to fly. When I graduate from the A&P program, I will also graduate with my Associates of science degree which is essentially useless in most job markets, but it's one more thing to throw on the resume. Actually, when I get my Commercial license , I will have my A&P, Associates degree, CDL, and then my flight ratings. Just trying to make myself as hireable as possible. Granted once you get higher up, hours and type are most important, but for us that are all low hour guys trying to get in somewhere, I hope all the extra stuff helps getting my foot in the door somewhere. 1 Quote
Wally Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Do you need a degree to work as a professional helicopter pilot? No.Do some employers grant preference to a degree holding applicant? Yes.How much education is enough? More than ever before, and you'll be acquiring it all your life.If you are the most minimally qualified applicant, everybody else is a better choice. You have decided to lose if that's how you intend to play that game."All in or all out", works for me. Edited October 15, 2013 by Wally 1 Quote
abailey0116 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Posted October 15, 2013 So it sounds like having a degree is good for a backup reason, but that it really comes down to PIC and experience. The one school is pushing really hard saying that you need a degree to be successful in this industry but I feel like I would much rather soley focus on getting my ratings and then maybe look into a degree down the line instead of trying to juggle both. Degrees.... Up to you based solely on where you want to go with your flying career. Management, or strictly pilot. I definitely want to take my flying career as far as possible. Based on your comment/experience with employers, could not having a degree prevent me from advancement within a company? Quote
apiaguy Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 "for instance... I look at you and I think... what could I use you for?"Of course having a degree in a non-aviation field adds a wealth of knowledge that can be important for business... Will you work for a manufacturer? A major MRO? A major carrier? A mom and pop shop? We need professionals in this industry... how do you define professional? That may be as simple as "I have 10000 hours wiggling sticks so I'm a pro" It may be much more than that. Quote
aeroscout Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Those that have degrees will not have to justify to a prospective employer why they don't. A degree doesn't necessarily mean you are smarter, or even better. But it does mean you are more qualified. 1 Quote
avbug Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 A degree definitely makes you more competitive. It enhances your qualification. A degree is NOT necessary to succeed as a professional pilot, but you will find some doors closed to you without one, and you'll find that some positions end up being filled by those with degrees. Enough positions about that you can do fine without working for those companies, and the helicopter community is far less demanding of academic credentials than the fixed wing world. Never the less, a degree with a qualification outside aviation may be an important thing to have when your fortune changes in the industry (and it will). Perhaps the most directly relevant degree to have is one in maintenance, and if you don't get the degree, the mechanic certificate holds value. It has value to an employer, and it has value to you: it may be the extra slot on your resume that gets you hired, or it may be the one that keeps you employed between flying jobs, flying seasons, or during a medical deficiency (I've done all three, more than a few times). Don't overlook education, but remember that an education comes in many forms, not all of which involve your name on parchment. 1 Quote
rotornut67 Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 If I was an operator looking at a short list of say 5 applicants, and they were all pretty much equal except for YOU being the only one with a degree...then maybe you get the nod. YOU and the other applicants all equally qualified, but you have your A/P...YOU definitely get the nod. As some of the other posts have said, make yourself as employable as possible. Never hurts to be "over-educated" I suppose. All said...it's ultimately your call and your money. I have a B.S. degree that has never done anything for me except gather dust!! LOL I would trade it in a nanosecond for an A/P...who knows, I'm never too old till I'm dead... JMTCW Quote
swan3609 Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 If I was an operator looking at a short list of say 5 applicants, and they were all pretty much equal except for YOU being the only one with a degree...then maybe you get the nod. YOU and the other applicants all equally qualified, but you have your A/P...YOU definitely get the nod. As some of the other posts have said, make yourself as employable as possible. Never hurts to be "over-educated" I suppose. All said...it's ultimately your call and your money. I have a B.S. degree that has never done anything for me except gather dust!! LOL I would trade it in a nanosecond for an A/P...who knows, I'm never too old till I'm dead... JMTCW This is why I am happy to get my AAS degree while I am getting my A&P certificate. It was only a few more classes for me to take and it gives me both the A&P certification and a associates degree to throw onto the resume. Quote
Whiteshadow Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Rotornut had the best answer to this in my opinion. The example that abailey gave was a pilot with a degree but less hours would not have an advantage. That means that the degree will not make up for having less experience than the other applicants. However, if I and 6 other applicants all have nearly identical experience, but I am the only one who has a degree, then I have to believe that it will be used to separate me from the rest. I still can't believe how many people in the programs that get you degrees along with all of your ratings quit the school portion once they get their ratings! I'm talking about GI Bill guys here. Some have literally gotten their ratings and quit school with nothing left to get their degree but a math class. I tried explaining to them that it will not hurt them to have something else on their resume.........once. I will not keep trying to talk sense into someone when in the end, they are helping me to set myself apart from the crowd. For them to quit with so little left to do only because "I don't NEED a degree", is pure laziness. I hate to see so many people who are getting so much free training and schooling not taking advantage of that gift. Quote
avbug Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Some jobs will not allow application without a degree. Those are not entry level jobs, however. At a few hundred hours, or even 1,500 hours, you've little to offer an employer but a pilot certificate and a warm body. You've no significant, useful experience, and a degree won't compensate for that. A degree is not necessary to ferry workers to oil rigs in the gulf, and certainly isn't necessary to cart airsick tourists around the west end of the Grand Canyon or the Las Vegas strip. A degree isn't particularly germane to long-lining a bucket over a fire, either. Some jobs will set requirements that specify a degree, and some will specify either a degree, or a commensurate amount of industry experience. At the entry levels, however, all you've got is your pilot certificate and the ability to breathe. Nobody cares where you went to school or whether or not you have a degree. Quote
Flying Pig Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 The advice I've been given is basically what avbug says. A degree will help later in your career when you are competing against pilots who have "arrived" in regards to their aviation experience and a degree is needed when people like that start looking at management positions. Chief Pilot, Director of Ops, things like that. What I tell students is if you have the ability to get a degree, sure, get one. But don't get a degree by sacrificing your ratings. I've never seen an entry level job that required a degree. Being a rated pilot is the minimum educational requirement for this career field. Do that first. 1 Quote
Spike Posted October 18, 2013 Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) So if anyone has read my last topic 'Are there any happy pilots out there', you will know I am in the process of finding the right helicopter school to attend to become a pilot. I have my two choices selected but am torn between the information they are each giving me. Both schools offer two different options; You can go through a college degree program and get certified that way or you just go through their Prefessional Polits Progam. One school said that the reason students go through the college program is that is the only way they can obtain loans to do the program. So my rebuttal was 'does it make you more marketable to have your 'degree' vs just going through the Pilots progam and not getting your degree but still getting all your certifications'? They said no, it will not matter. Your flying hours/experience is what matters. But then, I have my second choice school telling me that having a degree absolutely DOES matter when it comes to applying for a commercial job and to even be 'considered' into their hiring pool for a CFI, you have to do their two year degree program and once hired, they push you to complete your 4 year degree. They also say they have 100% hiring rate into the industry. If Im going to do this, I want to do this right. Im all for doing whatever I can to make myself stand out from other CFI's who might be applying for the same job but I also do not care to have a school tell me I 'need' this two year or four year degree so they can get money out of me for a longer period of time if I really dont need it. So my question to you guys is, do I need a degree to stand out or get hired in this profession? Ive seen quite a few job postings and very rarely do I see that a degree is part of the requirements. For example, if I apply for a job with 1500 flying hours and no degree vs someone who applies to the same job with only 1000 flying hours and a degree, will they be more likely to be called into an interview over me? Thanks for everyones feedback! You can’t have everything because where would you put it? If your ultimate goal is to fly for a living, then becoming a pilot is a necessity. A degree can help you in many ways but not while pursuing entry level helicopter gigs…. With the above in mind, where do you want to be in 15 years? That is, what sector of the industry would you like to work in? And, whatever that sector is, have you seen any job ads which require a degree? While it’s great you’re doing the research, you should attempt to plan every step and don’t just let your career happen. It’s YOU in the driver seat. Start driving today…… Simply put, don’t get a degree because someone is telling it’s a good idea. Get a degree because YOU want a degree and said degree will help you get you where YOU want to go….. Short of that, I’ve been gainfully employed as a pilot (and in management positions) since becoming a CFI and, currently make well above the average pilot wage all-the-while without a degree. However, my above average pay is going to put my kids through college………… Edited October 18, 2013 by Spike 2 Quote
gary-mike Posted October 18, 2013 Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I watch the job listings, and I have for quite awhile, call it part of my research. I am barely ahead of you in the same endeavor. I agree with most of the points provided so far, but I have noticed a trend in requirements lately too. There are many jobs that are listed with "preference to those that have a bachelors degree". Granted, these jobs were also discussed as being non entry level jobs (and they are) by the experienced professional pilots on this forum. There are good points to taking a few core classes while attending flight school through a degree granting school. Financial aid being a huge one, being that much closer to your dream job, another (if it is considered) having a leg up on the competition. Edited October 18, 2013 by gary-mike 1 Quote
aeroscout Posted October 18, 2013 Posted October 18, 2013 Spike said "You can't have everything because where would you put it".I would leave it where it is, and just come visit it whenever I wanted to. Quote
palmfish Posted October 22, 2013 Posted October 22, 2013 I watch the job listings, and I have for quite awhile, call it part of my research. I am barely ahead of you in the same endeavor. I agree with most of the points provided so far, but I have noticed a trend in requirements lately too. There are many jobs that are listed with "preference to those that have a bachelors degree". Granted, these jobs were also discussed as being non entry level jobs (and they are) by the experienced professional pilots on this forum. There are good points to taking a few core classes while attending flight school through a degree granting school. Financial aid being a huge one, being that much closer to your dream job, another (if it is considered) having a leg up on the competition.Good point. I will add that if you ever plan on getting a degree, the longer you wait, the harder it will be. It isnt wise to sacrifice your primary training (flying) or going deep in debt, but if the opportunity is there, its wise to consider it while youre still at the bottom of the ladder. Quote
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