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Kiowas no longer an option for selection?


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As far as going to an Aviation unit and not flying, would they farm you out to staff jobs and whatnot or is it just a whole lot of hanging around after you've done your mandatory classes and additional duties?

 

I want to echo this question. What happens if you fail to meet the minimums?

 

If they are willing to pay me to not make minimum hours as an officer for 6 years then I suppose I can suffer through it. My golf game is going to be awesome and I'm probably going to leave with a post graduate degree. Lol.

 

 

Joking aside, does this mean you get the "hanging around" as Mcclain alluded to? What kind of training/garrison duties would you do if you're failing to meet the minimums?

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I want to echo this question. What happens if you fail to meet the minimums?

 

 

Joking aside, does this mean you get the "hanging around" as Mcclain alluded to? What kind of training/garrison duties would you do if you're failing to meet the minimums?

Depends in the reason for not meeting mins. If sufficient aircraft available, non deployed, no down time for weather and you've not been grounded medically, then you have a problem. That situation will be investigated by your ATP commander and then he will determine what course of action to take. See AR 95-1.

 

The situation going on now is different. Some aren't making mins because the command doesn't have the money to fly. This is solved with a waiver memo issued by BDE.

 

As far as duties, just read Lindsey's WOFT guide. Doesn't matter if your flying or not, the command will find things for you to do. If you're a warrant you won't go to some staff position unless you are a senior warrant or your unit is grossly over manned.

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The situation going on now is different. Some aren't making mins because the command doesn't have the money to fly. This is solved with a waiver memo issued by BDE.

 

That answered my question! Thanks a lot! :) haha I know there is always work to be done, especially as a WO1 and being new to a unit! I guess I was wondering if the seniors would take all the flying time, etc. But who am I kidding? I just need to get back to my packet! ;)

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That answered my question! Thanks a lot! :) haha I know there is always work to be done, especially as a WO1 and being new to a unit! I guess I was wondering if the seniors would take all the flying time, etc. But who am I kidding? I just need to get back to my packet! ;)

Seniors won't be taking hours away from WO1s unless you have either a weak Co SP or money is so bad that training is put on hold to do only essential missions.

 

As a WO1 you're a thorn in the side for an SP. they've got to get you integrated into the ATP and progressed to RL1 within 180 days (with exceptions). You'll have somewhat of a priority for hours during progression. After progression it would be nice to let you sit to spread the wealth. Problem with that is eventually they've got to get you to PC status to replace the CW2s rotating to different units.

 

Scheduling is a juggling act that takes place with the Co CDR, the SP and the Ops O. You've got to set priorities and missions take precedence over training.

 

Even with multiple WO1s in the pipeline sometimes the weaker ones will sit while they concentrate in getting some strong WO1s progressed. Best way to find yourself not flying as a new WO1 is fail a 5&9 test on arrival. Personal conduct outside of flying can get you "grounded" as well. It's a competitive process and with limited funds and too many pilots, it has to be.

Edited by Velocity173
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My buddy just got his selection brief his class selects at the end of the month and they said there were a couple 58 slots possibly but it will def be blackhawk heavy. 47s are pretty much out of the question unless you are guard and I've heard 64s are a rarity now too.

 

I also heard a rumor that they are talking about letting people pick 58s but then making them go through the 64 course as well.

 

This place is rumorville at its finest. Picking through all of this I pretty much came to the conclusion that we should still stick with our wishlist but honestly be prepared to accept flying blackhawks.

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This place is rumorville at its finest. Picking through all of this I pretty much came to the conclusion that we should still stick with our wishlist but honestly be prepared to accept flying blackhawks.

 

Rumorville it is.

 

I have a somewhat biased but truly honest and helpful suggestion though. Simply pick Blackhawks anyway. It is a good aircraft, varied missions, they are everywhere, there is no talk about them going away, you are sure to fly at least some hours, there's a civilian equivalent, and there is a definite future in them.

 

I like the other platforms for their own reasons. But any honest person would have to at least admit this. You may like other missions better but it is hard to make an unemotional argument against the Blackhawk.

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Stop listening to rumors at Rucker. You should know by now even if the rumor is true it's bound to change 8 more times before you pick aircraft.

 

The 58 may be going away but it ain't going to happen overnight at its not going away for the guard. It will end up being like the UH-1 and the AH1. If you look at those programs, they had guard flying them well into the late 90's. Even the UH60A/L will be around for a minute.

 

Stop worrying about things that are not in your control!

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Stop listening to rumors at Rucker. You should know by now even if the rumor is true it's bound to change 8 more times before you pick aircraft.

 

The 58 may be going away but it ain't going to happen overnight at its not going away for the guard. It will end up being like the UH-1 and the AH1. If you look at those programs, they had guard flying them well into the late 90's. Even the UH60A/L will be around for a minute.

 

Stop worrying about things that are not in your control!

 

Nah, they'll give them to the Marine Corps.. we are still flying UH-1's and AH-1's.. hell we even just upgraded them both to 4 blade rotors.

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Lol, they army would rather have those aircraft gather rust in a junkyard then give anything to the marine corps.

 

I'm pretty sure AD aircraft make thier way to the army gaurd, or other countries. The Army's version of the UH1 and AH1 was never as fancy as what the MAWs are rolling with nowadays.

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Rumorville it is.

 

I have a somewhat biased but truly honest and helpful suggestion though. Simply pick Blackhawks anyway. It is a good aircraft, varied missions, they are everywhere, there is no talk about them going away, you are sure to fly at least some hours, there's a civilian equivalent, and there is a definite future in them.

 

I like the other platforms for their own reasons. But any honest person would have to at least admit this. You may like other missions better but it is hard to make an unemotional argument against the Blackhawk.

Oh I agree the Blackhawk is an amazing aircraft. I wouldn't be upset with flying it however it just isn't my first choice.

 

I've had this same argument with myself on numerous occasions regarding blackhawks vs guns. I understand that blackhawks actually fly and the mission is so varied that theres always something to do whether its peace time or war time.

 

I'm a gun guy at heart, it's what I personally have always wanted. I realize that in todays times Ill fly 1/4 of what blackhawk drivers fly if I'm lucky and blackhawks have an easier transition to civilian life. But no matter how hard I try I can't stop wanting guns. I know that Ill probably get more hours here at Rucker than the rest of my career but to me its worth it personally. I just can't see me sitting in a blackhawk cockpit and looking over seeing an Apache or Kiowa and not being a bit jealous..

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I'm a gun guy at heart, it's what I personally have always wanted. I realize that in todays times Ill fly 1/4 of what blackhawk drivers fly if I'm lucky and blackhawks have an easier transition to civilian life. But no matter how hard I try I can't stop wanting guns. I know that Ill probably get more hours here at Rucker than the rest of my career but to me its worth it personally. I just can't see me sitting in a blackhawk cockpit and looking over seeing an Apache or Kiowa and not being a bit jealous..

 

Then you should do your very best to get guns and I hope you do achieve that goal. We need gun guys!

 

You also served to support my point. The argument for guns is generally emotional rather than practical, and that is perfectly ok too.

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Lol, they army would rather have those aircraft gather rust in a junkyard then give anything to the marine corps.

 

I'm pretty sure AD aircraft make thier way to the army gaurd, or other countries. The Army's version of the UH1 and AH1 was never as fancy as what the MAWs are rolling with nowadays.

 

I think the similarities between the old Army AH-1 and current AH-1W probably ended right around the time we went to dual engine configurations. Sometime in the mid-late 70s. As far as I know the AH-1F never had any HF capability, FLIR (NTS), no laser designator or izlid, and minimal (jammer only) ASE gear. The vast majority of Cobra upgrades have been bolt on configurations jerry rigged to different areas of the aircraft and cockpit. It's an ergonomic nightmare. The AH-1W was built as an alternative to the Apache because congress wouldn't give it to us, so it brings a big jump in capability for it's time. The Army has done a better job at upgrading the Apache and implementing improvements.

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Then you should do your very best to get guns and I hope you do achieve that goal. We need gun guys!

 

You also served to support my point. The argument for guns is generally emotional rather than practical, and that is perfectly ok too.

Absolutely.

 

I chose guns because I wanted guns, I argued with myself over flight hours and times, and it still came back to guns simply because that's what I always wanted.

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I really like the mission of the Kiowa, being able to do guns and observation. I also want to work towards SOAR the Kiowa is a pipeline to little birds

 

While fine for other reasons, the Kiowa is no more of a pipeline to little birds than a CH-47, UH-60, AH-64, or anything else.

 

If you want to work towards SOAR, the best thing you can do (as far as flying goes) is get a lot of hours. The airframe makes zero difference.

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We may not have much of a future left for us but there are plenty of flight hours to be had in Kiowas.

 

I know flying 60's is better for my career but damnit the Kiowa is such a sexy little bird. I guess we'll see whats happening once I get to selection. Phasing out something in the military takes years. If I can get a few good years in, hopefully by then I can either change airframes or do an indoc for SOAR.

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Littlebirds are cool but the MH-47 is what catches my eye.

 

Especially the future capabilities they are talking for it.

 

But I'd choose DAP over any of them.. yes that's right.. a 64 guy saying he'd fly a Hawk.

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