A&P Schools w/Rotorwing emphasis

[st_john]

I've spent the last 8 years working with helicopters contracted for fire throught the US Forest Service, and I am looking to become solely involved in aviation. I've been looking at schools to obtain my A&P cert, but most of them are training grounds for major ailines. Does anyone know of some that have emphasis in helicopters and are reputable. Location is no factor. Thanks this has been a tough question to find good answers to.

[st_john]

So after making many calls to Maintenance Directors Ive got a few names. Does anyone have any carnal knowledge about these schools?

 

Lane Comm College, Eugene, OR.

Cheap tuition ($15,000) Good instructors. Three engines commonly found in helicopters.

 

Red Stone, Denver area

Expensive($40,000) Old and well established. About 7 million invested in teaching aids. Associated w/completion

 

PHI, Pittsburgh, PA

Expensive($40,000) Well established, Associates w/completion

 

There are a few others that have come up but i havn't had a chance to look into them

[Guest pokey]

Most schools are structured by the FAA guidelines, you will not find an A&P school dedicated to helicopters because the FAA is not dedicated solely to helicopters either. All you want is that certificate that says you are an aviation mechanic, choose the school that will get it done for you with the least amount of time, I went thru a 12 month course, in Utica NY, but the school is no longer in business. You will learn all about helicopters from your 1st employer, not from the A&P school.

[Flying Pig]

San Joaquin Valley College and Reedley College, both located in the Fresno area in CA have good programs. They do not concentrate on helicopters, but there are a couple large helo operations and MX shops close by. Rogers Helicopters, Big Valley Aviation etc.

[cryesis]

I would look into the 30 month job experience route to an A&P license and work for a shop that mainly works on rotorcraft. It will take longer to get the license but your getting paid instead of paying a school

[Flying Pig]

The issue with that is finding a facility willing to take you on as a paid student laborer and asking them to do some serious mentoring. Unless you have some "in" I dont know of any facilities trying to turn a profit who are going to take someone under their wing for 2 1/2 years and give them a paycheck.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Flying Pig

[st_john]

Ive looked into obtaining my time in swamping at a shop, and have found two that would be willing to bring me in. The reason I've decided to go the scholastic rout is basically time. I'd rather have a chance to take the FAA test in 16 months rather than 30. Also my time working in a shop may only expose me to one aircraft and therefore limit me when it comes time to take the A&P test. Another issue is if the shop is not reputable and does shoddy work,I have nothing to compare it to, so I might start this career with bad habits.

By attending a school I can attend for an extra semester and obtain an AA in Aeronautics, which gives me a base to build upon. I have no intentions of remaining a mechanic for the rest of my career in aviation so this is also important.

 

 

I may be over thinking this, so if anyone has a different perspective I'd greatly appreciate the input.

[Flying Pig]

I looked into doing the route of working in the shop. My unit had fixed wing and helicopters and I thought.... Hmmmm, what if I just glue myself to the mechanic? We flew so much that we were always doing maintenance and had a progressive Mx program for both the helicopters and the airplane. When I really started looking into it, it would have been a pretty hefty undertaking. In my opinion, you have to REALLY want to be an A&P and better be extremely self motivated to learn the skills that you wont cover in a daily shop environment. In addition, it is a lot to ask of a shop mechanic. its not that you are just watching them work and helping, they actually need to be willing to teach you things as they go.

In my view, you better have a real solid foundation for maintenance related thought. I think a person needs to be a motor-head type to go that route. I am not that guy. I decided I was better off as a pilot who just gets the mechanic a soda when I hear him using unusual amounts of profanity and screaming at the helicopter like its a step child on probation. And in the process I learn a little bit about the guts of my machine.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Flying Pig

[apiaguy]

It's not that hard to get the a&p...

Here's how: work with the mechanics fir your "time"

Get then to sign off on your time... Go take three writtens

Go to one of those week long a&p crash courses where they basically guarantee your oral and practical.

I know lots of guys that have gone this route. I did the school route and you are right... The school teaches proper techniques.. Shops might do real world work with more corners cut and yes you could learn bad habits. The choice is always yours to use proper techniques and practices... Do some study on the stuff you work on.. Don't just learn the routine. School may work on a number of different aircraft but that will most likely NOT be what you work on... Especially in the rotorcraft world.

Time is money. If you can afford to go to school.. Great

[cryesis]

another positive of working in a shop is the experience, I haven't seen many jobs posted for a fresh A&P with zero experience outside of school, Working in a shop gives you the A&P as well as experience on your resume. Shops also teach you real world problems where a school everything you work on will be nice and clean and straight forward for you.

[Flying Pig]

Ill definitely defer to the people here who have gone that route.... but I was told once, You gotta know the rules before you can cheat.

[st_john]

Thanks for everyone's input. I think there is a valid argument each way, and for me school seems like the most valid. Im supporting a small family so time is of the essence. Found a school in Eugene that is relatively cheap, and three of the four instructors had careers in the military working on CH-53s. So they are focused on personally helicopters. Plus one of them was the mechanic on the Bell 210 I've been working with for the past few years.

So until the next decision needs contemplation.

[Spike]

In my experience, emersion can create momentum and momentum leads to opportunities…. With that said, there is no reason why you can’t do both. That is, go to school for the certification and work part-time somewhere even if it’s as a volunteer…. What you want is hours (experience) that fulfill a subject area which can be credited to your training. I was credited a number of hours due to my past work experience as a sheet metal mechanic and, additional hours due to my pilot experience and certification as a motorcycle mechanic. However, this was possible in the late 80’s so I’m not sure if the “previous experience” crediting rules have changed since then. Either way, it’s worth the effort to look into….. IMO, of course……

 

Lastly, the 210 mechanic/instructor you’ve been working with over the past few years…. Stick to him like glue and apply the “emersion can create momentum and momentum leads to opportunities” theory…..

Edited November 17, 2013 by Spike

[st_john]

Thanks for the input from everyone. It has been helpful. I've settled on a school in Eugene, Or and have an opportunity to start this January. So looks like this last summer was my last season in fire, as a grunt at least. Thanks again for having a conversation with me.

[swan3609]

Lane looks like a great program.. I toured there and really wanted to go there. But Spokane Community College also has an A&P program that is 25 miles from my parents house. Even with out of state tuition (I live in Idaho) I am looking at around 11k intuition. But living at home with next to 0 living expenses. That said our program is old. It's been around for 40 years and many of the teaching aids and equipment look like then have been around from the start, a lot different than the nice new program at Lane. Added bonus for me is that Inland Helicopters is the next hanger over and any time I have a spare $240 I can go grab another hour towards my eventual goal of a commercial license.

 

 

My hope is that when I Graduate after 2 years with the FAA license, and my AA of Science, I Will also be done with my solo and can then get a "bitch Boy" job at one of the local operators and then continue working towards my Commercial and Instrument ratings.

 

I have also herd that doing the A&P the apprentice route is kinda iffy as the FAA inspector can basically say "Nope those hours don't count" and you will be SOL if he doesn't like you for some reason.

[Spike]

 

I have also herd that doing the A&P the apprentice route is kinda iffy as the FAA inspector can basically say "Nope those hours don't count" and you will be SOL if he doesn't like you for some reason.

 

You can get the experience you need to become a certified power plant or airframe mechanic in one of three ways.

 

1. You can attend one of the 170 FAR part 147 Aviation Maintenance Technician Schools nationwide. These schools offer training for one mechanic certificate or both. Many schools offer avionics courses that cover electronics and instrumentation.

 

You need a high school diploma or a General Education Diploma (GED) to get in to most schools. The schooling lasts from 12 months and 24 months, generally less than required by FAA for on-the-job training. When you graduate, you are qualified to take FAA's exams. Graduates often get higher starting salaries than individuals who got their required experience in one of the other two ways.

 

2. You can work an FAA Repair Station or FBO under the supervision of a certified mechanic for 18 months for each certificate, or 30 months for both. You must document your experience with pay receipts, a log book signed by your supervising mechanic, a notarized statement from your employer, or other proof you worked the required time.

 

3. You can join one of the armed services and get training and experience in aircraft maintenance. Make sure you are in a military occupational specialty for which FAA gives credit. You can get a current list of acceptable specialties from the local FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO).

 

You must present an official letter from your military employer certifying your length of service, the amount of time you worked in each specialties, the make and model of the aircraft or engine on which you got practical experience, and where you got the experience. You cannot count time you spent training for the specialty, only the time you spent working in the specialty.

 

With both types of on-the-job training you should set aside additional study time to prepare for the written and oral/practical tests. The FAA will give you credit for your practical experience only after we review your paperwork and you have a satisfactory interview with an FAA Airworthiness inspector.

[swan3609]

The last part about the "satisfactory interview" is my guess as to why I have herd bad things about those that have gone the apprenticeship way.. This is all second hand and I cant validate the claims, but there are a few kids in my current school that worked for an employer for the 30 months and the FAA inspector wasnt satisfied with something about their training or hours.. We also have 3 different people with 5+ years of wrenching in the armed services that ended up going to school rather than petitioning for their FAA A&P.. Like I said, this is all word of mouth, but it seems iffy doing it any other way than going to a 147 program, It seems like a grumpy FAA inspector can pretty much deny if they dont like anything with your training.. But I am just a kid that doesnt know much!

[adam32]

Plus one of them was the mechanic on the Bell 210 I've been working with for the past few years.

So until the next decision needs contemplation.

 

Hmmm...a 210, USFS...Bald Mtn Helitack perhaps?

[st_john]

Shast-Trinity H-506 N610WW USFS. Contract provided by Whirlwind. Bald Mnt uses her sister ship

[adam32]

Shast-Trinity H-506 N610WW USFS. Contract provided by Whirlwind. Bald Mnt uses her sister ship

 

Well I had a 50% chance of getting it! lol

[Jaybee]

The last part about the "satisfactory interview" is my guess as to why I have herd bad things about those that have gone the apprenticeship way.. This is all second hand and I cant validate the claims, but there are a few kids in my current school that worked for an employer for the 30 months and the FAA inspector wasnt satisfied with something about their training or hours.. We also have 3 different people with 5+ years of wrenching in the armed services that ended up going to school rather than petitioning for their FAA A&P.. Like I said, this is all word of mouth, but it seems iffy doing it any other way than going to a 147 program, It seems like a grumpy FAA inspector can pretty much deny if they dont like anything with your training.. But I am just a kid that doesnt know much!

 

I did the 30 months thing.

 

You cant simply change oil and spark plugs and get signed off.

 

You must have documented having obtained experience in at least 50% of the tasks listed in Appendices of Part 147.

 

Here are the rules the ASI must follow in making these determinations - http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=8900.1,Vol.5,Ch5,Sec2. G(1) is what you are looking for.

 

I got my sign off from the ASI with nothing more than a signed letter from the guy who taught me. In the wording of the letter and a quasi-resume I drafted up I made sure I had documented at least 50% of the tasks required.

 

As long as you do that, they can't say no.