yakfishr19 Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 That's what I'm wondering, there still giving out 58 slots for selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted January 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I have no f*cking idea what the kiowa drivers will do. All my buddies are scared shitless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotdogs Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 It'll probably be a phased transition. Aircraft and crews aren't going to magically disappear and appear on flight lines across the country. Lots of logistical items will also need to be address and the second and third order effects of the decision will probably not materialize for another 5-6 years. Transitioning aircrews will (should be) probably be one of the easier headaches big Army will have to figure out. Unforuntately the Marine Corps is all too familiar with boondoggling aircrew transitions in recent history (See CH-46 and UH-1Y) So hopefully the Army can make a better example. Good news for flight students is that they now get the bang the sh*t out of a newer state of the art aircraft. Don't let two turbine engines blow your mind. It's not that complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I3uller Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 It'll probably be a phased transition. Aircraft and crews aren't going to magically disappear and appear on flight lines across the country. Lots of logistical items will also need to be address and the second and third order effects of the decision will probably not materialize for another 5-6 years. Transitioning aircrews will (should be) probably be one of the easier headaches big Army will have to figure out. Unforuntately the Marine Corps is all too familiar with boondoggling aircrew transitions in recent history (See CH-46 and UH-1Y) So hopefully the Army can make a better example. Good news for flight students is that they now get the bang the sh*t out of a newer state of the art aircraft. Don't let two turbine engines blow your mind. It's not that complicated. Do you know if the rotor turns opposite on the Lakota? It is a euro helicopter after all. Not that switching feet when we get to our advanced airframes would be too bad but just a thought haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotdogs Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 That's a good thought. I had some issues going from landing a T-6B flaring (nose up) while hitting the approach end numbers, 3 months later I was in the TH-57B (No stab) you would have to trim forward and (nose level) the skids and compensate for pendulum effect while coming into a hover. Also, pulling power in a helicopter and fixed wing turbine mean two different things. So yes, habit patterns are there, and aren't that hard to overcome. Trimming out a fleet aircraft to take off is no where near as difficult as it was in a no stab TH-57B, so I wouldn't expect it to be a big issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I3uller Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I just looked it up and apparently for the Army version it turns in the standard counter clockwise direction. Plus it's a hingeless system which will be way nicer to fly than the semi-rigid 67 Creek. Although I can already hear the "back in my day" berating from the 67 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftxag76 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Anyone notice how many crashes there have been recently? 1. USAF Pavehawk in the UK2. Navy 53 off VA3. Navy FA-18 off VAAnd now a 160th incident (http://mobile.armytimes.com/article/20140116/NEWS/301160006) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Anyone notice how many crashes there have been recently? 1. USAF Pavehawk in the UK2. Navy 53 off VA3. Navy FA-18 off VAAnd now a 160th incident (http://mobile.armytimes.com/article/20140116/NEWS/301160006)Yeah, sometimes they happen in waves. Can't really pin it on any one reason; just the nature of the business. As our 60 AQC flight commander said, you will personally know someone in flight school who will die doing this profession. He said that on family day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brackac Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah, sometimes they happen in waves. Can't really pin it on any one reason; just the nature of the business. As our 60 AQC flight commander said, you will personally know someone in flight school who will die doing this profession. He said that on family day. I know 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperGumby Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yeah, I know 26 even before I earned my wings. http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Jan/27/ln/ln03p.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_P148 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 it's the nature of doing business, like velocity said. There was also a 60 that crashed in December in RC South and a ODIN King Air in RC East this month. The 60 is rumored to be from enemy fire, pending a formal investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apacheguy Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Do you know if the rotor turns opposite on the Lakota? It is a euro helicopter after all. Not that switching feet when we get to our advanced airframes would be too bad but just a thought haha It's the same as all US helicopters. Probably one of the easiest helicopters you will ever fly by the way, though I don't think they'll stand up well to all the touchdown autos in IERW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d10 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Will they still teach touchdown autos? There won't be any more single engine helicopters in the Army inventory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I know. What a shame. I really liked the two weeks of touchdown autos I got in the slick KW. That along with manual throttle flying (FADEC EP flying). Its old school helicopter flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I3uller Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I know. What a shame. I really liked the two weeks of touchdown autos I got in the slick KW. That along with manual throttle flying (FADEC EP flying). Its old school helicopter flying.Manual throttle flying in a turbine? Explain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 The Kiowa has a single channel FADEC to control engine parameters and Rotor RPM. It fails from time to time, so we practice the EP every 90 days with an IP. When it is off, engine TQ is essentially controlled by your motorcycle grip, and Nr by the collective. With the rotor being low inertia, well, its easy to screw up. Twist on a litttle, pull a little. Or the opposite. Its as old school flying as it can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 The Kiowa has a single channel FADEC to control engine parameters and Rotor RPM. It fails from time to time, so we practice the EP every 90 days with an IP. When it is off, engine TQ is essentially controlled by your motorcycle grip, and Nr by the collective. With the rotor being low inertia, well, its easy to screw up. Twist on a litttle, pull a little. Or the opposite. Its as old school flying as it can get.Yep I screwed it up the first time in the 407. Rotor was looking good until I reduced collective and rolled on throttle! "Whoa! I have the controls!" Spent probably an hour in the hotel that night sitting in a chair, raising my left arm twisting left then lowering my arm and twisting right. Never had a problem since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I3uller Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Wow I wasn't aware that could be done. I learned on CBi's where it's all kinds of throttle movement all the time but I always thought you just set power and were careful not to over torque or over temp a turbine. On a separate note, I thought rotor RPM was constant...does FADEC alter rotor rpm during regular flight? Sorry for all the questions, I have zero turbine time and have always been curious on the actual practical operational differences between turbine and reciprocating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 FADEC will keep your rotor Rpm at 100%. We don't have a power on rotor droop like a jet ranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I3uller Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 FADEC will keep your rotor Rpm at 100%. We don't have a power on rotor droop like a jet ranger.Oh so you meant FADEC just controls power input to keep the rotor at 100 percent. That makes more sense. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the differences in turbine from what I learned on. I'm sure each have their own challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotdogs Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yep I screwed it up the first time in the 407. Rotor was looking good until I reduced collective and rolled on throttle! "Whoa! I have the controls!" Spent probably an hour in the hotel that night sitting in a chair, raising my left arm twisting left then lowering my arm and twisting right. Never had a problem since. We have the same manual throttle/twist grip in the H-1 community. The T700 (as you may well know) has an alternator that provides most engine indications, many of the circuits on that alternator shaft specifically engine TQ, Ng, and Np will provide erroneous indications if that shaft breaks, they also power the EECU (DECU depending on what model you fly) so you could have a complete EECU failure, over or under speeding Nr and have no idea which engine is going haywire. Obviously controlling Nr and watching MGT will give the shotty engine away, but it can get pretty tricky for new guys. Manual throttle can be a pain in the butt too, depending on how airframes rigs the throttle wiring making a particular engine throttle more sensitive than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Manual throttle is fun in the kiowa between the seats. The left seat throttle is much, much more sensitive. As to why, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Cable distance maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) We have the same manual throttle/twist grip in the H-1 community. The T700 (as you may well know) has an alternator that provides most engine indications, many of the circuits on that alternator shaft specifically engine TQ, Ng, and Np will provide erroneous indications if that shaft breaks, they also power the EECU (DECU depending on what model you fly) so you could have a complete EECU failure, over or under speeding Nr and have no idea which engine is going haywire. Obviously controlling Nr and watching MGT will give the shotty engine away, but it can get pretty tricky for new guys. Manual throttle can be a pain in the butt too, depending on how airframes rigs the throttle wiring making a particular engine throttle more sensitive than the other. Yeah the 700 ECU seems to function just like the ECU in the RR 250. In the Black Hawk it's a non issue though. You can lockout the bad engine and set the TRQ 10 % below the good one. If the pilot on the controls doesn't do any rapid collective inputs, you can keep flying without any real over speed / under speed problems. Being SE in the 407, I've gotta keep that sucker under control to keep it within parameters. Even in manual FADEC we're suppose to still have NP / NG over speed protection but no temp protection. I guess my biggest worry would be an over temp or possibly letting it go to an under speed condition. I have noticed that some aircraft are rigged differently than others but I've found that if I just make small inputs with a slow approach I can keep it well within Nr limits. Edited January 21, 2014 by Velocity173 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Cable distance maybe?No it was designed with a different throw ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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