Why would you/did you leave EMS?

[ericcbohn]

I'd like to hear from those considering leaving, and those that have left. People talk about how the QOL is great, yet many still leave or say it's not for them. Why?

[Velocity173]

Money, money money.

 

Not considering leaving but if I did it would be to go single pilot fixed wing at higher pay. Outside of that there really isn't much else I'm interested in.

 

EMS has a lot of openings for one simple reason; there aren't enough 2,000 + hr pilots out there. Most people with that amount of time go with higher paying multi engine IFR or overseas contract jobs. If I had a wife and kids spending all my money I might do that as well but I don't. If EMS paid 150 grand a year you wouldn't see any pilot shortages. You think someone is going to pick a job being away from home for weeks sometimes months at a time if EMS is paying the same money? Nope. No one says "Oh I love flying in the summers of Afghanistan or Saudi and living in a wooden box." They do it for money. Pure and simple.

 

For all the people you hear about leaving EMS for something else, there are just as many who came into EMS from somewhere else. EVERY single pilot I work with came from another segment. Some were even higher paying contract and GoM jobs.

 

Everyone gets tired of what they're doing eventually but a lot of people stick in EMS because it's their retirement job. You'll see some of the older guys who are actually working in the area that they plan on retiring in for good. This job works out perfectly for them. It's an easy job and they're home every night. If you're a young guy, looking to travel, build hours and make big bucks, this job ain't for you.

[Wally]

What the man said: money!

When I started this, the compensation was comparable to other parts of the industry. Then Air Methods Corp pilots organized, and compensation bumped. Not competitive anymore.

Rather than increasing pay, the industry and FAA have elected to try to "paperwork" and op con less experienced pilots, magically qualifying them. The industry is in for a very bad spell.

[Gomer Pylot]

I plan to leave in the next couple of years. The fun is going out of it, and I've been eligible for retirement for awhile. It still beats working, but staying at home with the wife full time is becoming more and more attractive. Having to plan everything around my work schedule gets old, and I've been away from home for half our marriage. After > 40 years of doing this, it's getting to be time to give it up.

[Velocity173]

Another thing to consider when you wonder why so many openings, is that pilots do find ways to get fired in HEMS.

 

Show up to work consistently late and looking like a bum. Show up to work on a day watch, skip preflight and go straight to bed. Goof around with your aircraft and treat it like your own personal joy ride and violate FARs or company policy. Scare the crap out of your crew because you can't do a challenging scene site landing at night. Scare the crap out of your crew because you keep making poor weather decisions. Just can't get along with your crew or other pilots you work with. All of that stuff will get you fired.

 

Also, sometimes you have guys show up to one of these incentive bases and the extra 10-12 grand bonus just doesn't cut it. Don't like living out in BFE. Family doesn't like the area. They miss home and want to go back to where they came from. Just doesn't work out for them.

 

When you've got a base that's short a pilot the other three have to work overtime for a couple months to make up for it. Or they have to send in one of their float pilots who is already over tasked with work overs to fill in. It's kind of a never ending cycle in HEMS. There just aren't pilots ready to get hired and start at a moments notice. Gotta post the opening, interviews, hiring paperwork, aircraft qual / EMS training. All that takes at least a couple months.

 

My advice is to do what I did. I made a list of pros and cons with each job I was interested in. For me the pros of living where I want and doing an easy, yet rewarding job, outweighed any monetary benefit of going somewhere else and being gone all the time. There will come a time when I'm ready to move on though. Just won't be in the near future.

[ericcbohn]

My advice is to do what I did. I made a list of pros and cons with each job I was interested in. For me the pros of living where I want and doing an easy, yet rewarding job, outweighed any monetary benefit of going somewhere else and being gone all the time. There will come a time when I'm ready to move on though. Just won't be in the near future.

 

Got this - I ranked 3 different flying careers to my current career in a matrix, and ranked each career against each other in 7 different categories that pertain to what I want in my life/career. HEMS has been a front runner every time, no matter how I skew the numbers. If you're interested in taking a look I'd love to share to get some more insight.

[palmfish]

Im researching EMS as a career and this is exactly the kind of info I need.

 

Thanks Velocity!

[Velocity173]

Im researching EMS as a career and this is exactly the kind of info I need. It sounds better and better to me the more I read.

 

Thanks Velocity!

No problem. Realize that HEMS isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea though.. There are other threads on here where we talk about the negatives that come with the job. You need to look at all of that before you decide on this path.

 

Im not going to sit here and tell you that HEMS is the best job out there but right now it meets all of my goals. For me and my friends who retired out of the military, HEMS is a good retirement type job. I'm not looking at flying twin engine, IFR, dual pilot aircraft traveling all over the world anymore. Living in a town I can call home and not worrying where my next job will take me is more on my priority list.

 

Like Gomer, I know pilots that have been doing this job for decades so you know it can't be all that bad.

[palmfish]

I think I have a pretty realistic understanding of the nature of the work and the pros and cons. What I'm finding really helpful is reading personal anecdotes to give a better picture of the nitty gritty minutiae, if you know what I mean.

[Velocity173]

I think I have a pretty realistic understanding of the nature of the work and the pros and cons. What I'm finding really helpful is reading personal anecdotes to give a better picture of the nitty gritty minutiae, if you know what I mean.

You mean like dating flight nurses and stuff?

[ericcbohn]

This thread is related... http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/topic/16371-high-turnover-in-ems-why/?hl=overseas&do=findComment&comment=127672

[palmfish]

No, I already know about that

[Wally]

I think I have a pretty realistic understanding of the nature of the work and the pros and cons. What I'm finding really helpful is reading personal anecdotes to give a better picture of the nitty gritty minutiae, if you know what I mean.

 

It's just a job, like all flying jobs I ever had. Most closely resembles being an offshore field pilot, live and work with the crew, same faces every day. That's one reason I like scenes, they're all different and new people.

 

It's just a pilot job, except the professional isolation. I see other pilots at the front and back of the duty day, and maybe once a month elsewhere. I miss the pilot ready room bull sessions, more valuable than annual recurrent pap. That, and watching others do the job.

[Gomer Pylot]

Yeah, the lack of opportunity to talk to other pilots is a drag. The conversation possibilities are limited to Duck Dynasty and medical stuff, mostly.

[palmfish]

My current job doesnt have much of a "ready room" atmosphere. I work with two other pilots and we get along really well - but it's just the three of us.

 

One thing that appeals to me about EMS is the fact that you are actually responding and helping people in need. I know its more complicated than that (politics, budget, competence of people calling for evac, etc) but the mission is a "real mission" and every flight is different.

 

Im sure some flights are mundane, but others are not. Off-airport, police closing roads for you, confined area NVG ops, etc...it seems it would stay interesting and challenging.

 

It sounds like if you have the mins, are mature and professional, and get along well with others, it is a good gig.

 

One of my remaining questions is how the various companies need for revenue plays into the go/no-go decision. Is it a big factor or is it case by case? Maybe more regional depending on how many competing companies service the area?

[Gomer Pylot]

IME, that isn't a factor at all. My go/no go decision is entirely mine, and I've never had anyone question a decision either way. I have taken a few flights that other programs have turned down, and it's usually a local weather situation, such as having a thunderstorm cell over the competition, or something like that. But I don't care if the competition takes a flight after I turn it down, and AFAIK the company doesn't either. It's entirely a case of whether I believe I can make the flight safely and legally.

[Rupert]

Thirty years hospital-based EMS. When I started, they told me EMS pilots had a life-expectancy (meaning, job-life) of 18 months. Hospital politics chew pilots up and spit them out. Very hard to hang on. Some pilots do better than others, but, as a rule, pilots much less socially and politically sophisticated than their medical counterparts. By that I mean, nurses get rid of pilots and not the other way around. Understand from non-hospital-based pilots with single employer of both aviation and medical personnel, that this chew 'em up spit 'em out thing doesn't happen. Many pilots here consider themselves politically and socially savvy; don't know what they don't know; think everybody loves them, and everybody doesn't. Pilots who do well in hospital-based programs generally fail to see the problem; and, pilots who don't do well don't see it comin'.

[Velocity173]

 

Got this - I ranked 3 different flying careers to my current career in a matrix, and ranked each career against each other in 7 different categories that pertain to what I want in my life/career. HEMS has been a front runner every time, no matter how I skew the numbers. If you're interested in taking a look I'd love to share to get some more insight.

Yeah you can send it to me in a PM and I'll take a look at it.

[Azhigher]

I can see people leaving EMS due to:

Hospital/Med Crew politics.

Not getting a good base fast enough

Being run out by med crew

Getting bored with the lack of flights

Getting fired

Wanting more money

 

That being said I'm not looking to leave.

[ericcbohn]

Thirty years hospital-based EMS. When I started, they told me EMS pilots had a life-expectancy (meaning, job-life) of 18 months. Hospital politics chew pilots up and spit them out. Very hard to hang on. Some pilots do better than others, but, as a rule, pilots much less socially and politically sophisticated than their medical counterparts. By that I mean, nurses get rid of pilots and not the other way around. Understand from non-hospital-based pilots with single employer of both aviation and medical personnel, that this chew 'em up spit 'em out thing doesn't happen. Many pilots here consider themselves politically and socially savvy; don't know what they don't know; think everybody loves them, and everybody doesn't. Pilots who do well in hospital-based programs generally fail to see the problem; and, pilots who don't do well don't see it comin'.

Why would there be a difference between hospital and non-hospital based? What do you mean here: "Pilots who do well in hospital-based programs generally fail to see the problem; and, pilots who don't do well don't see it comin'."?

[Gomer Pylot]

I would not work a job based at a hospital. I just wouldn't. Having to deal with the people working there, and being at a hospital more than half my time, is just something I couldn't stand. I work for a standalone company, and our base is in a cow pasture outside a small town. We don't have to deal with anyone outside the company except for delivery people and the local EMS people, who drop by once in awhile to visit, and who we see on scene flights. The only politics we deal with is between us, which can be exciting enough as it is. Trying to keep a hospital staff happy is far more work than I'm capable of attempting, and hanging around a hospital full time is just unthinkable for me.

[Wally]

Why would there be a difference between hospital and non-hospital based? What do you mean here: "Pilots who do well in hospital-based programs generally fail to see the problem; and, pilots who don't do well don't see it comin'."?

 

Community based programs are all employees of the HEMS (aviation) company. Corporate mostly concerned with profit- I mean "safety is job one". Yeah, that's the ticket, SAFETY....

Hospital based usually supplies the medical crew, exercises some direction of day-to-day operation, and profit determined on contractual basis- All potential points of conflict. Against which you will be the flying bill-board and status symbol, which may indicate better equipment... Did I mention that the relationship conflicts and can become adversarial?

[ericcbohn]

Are these internal conflicts any better/worse than any other career in aviation?

[Flint950]

Money, money money.

Not considering leaving but if I did it would be to go single pilot fixed wing at higher pay. Outside of that there really isn't much else I'm interested in.

EMS has a lot of openings for one simple reason; there aren't enough 2,000 + hr pilots out there. Most people with that amount of time go with higher paying multi engine IFR or overseas contract jobs. If I had a wife and kids spending all my money I might do that as well but I don't. If EMS paid 150 grand a year you wouldn't see any pilot shortages. You think someone is going to pick a job being away from home for weeks sometimes months at a time if EMS is paying the same money? Nope. No one says "Oh I love flying in the summers of Afghanistan or Saudi and living in a wooden box." They do it for money. Pure and simple.

For all the people you hear about leaving EMS for something else, there are just as many who came into EMS from somewhere else. EVERY single pilot I work with came from another segment. Some were even higher paying contract and GoM jobs.

Everyone gets tired of what they're doing eventually but a lot of people stick in EMS because it's their retirement job. You'll see some of the older guys who are actually working in the area that they plan on retiring in for good. This job works out perfectly for them. It's an easy job and they're home every night. If you're a young guy, looking to travel, build hours and make big bucks, this job ain't for you.

[Flint950]

Gentlemen, thanks for all of your input on this topic. This type of stuff really helps paint an accurate picture of what EMS pilot life is like. I agree that there are not that many 2-3 thousand hour helicopter pilots out there. I don't see that number increasing any time soon either. Have any of you noticed a shortage of qualified pilots? If there is a shortage I'm wondering if the salaries may increase. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part.