ATP Add-on

[cburg]

I’m an ATP airplane and Private helicopter. Can I skip Commercial and add-on Helicopter ATP if I meet all the experience requirements?

[Bootcamp]

I’m an ATP airplane and Private helicopter. Can I skip Commercial and add-on Helicopter ATP if I meet all the experience requirements?

 

Is there any chance you're the student asking around in the Enterprise, AL area? I was listening to an instructor and an examiner discuss this very issue on Saturday. If you look at the regs, assuming you received your ATP under Part 61, I think it's Kosher; however the examiner disagreed and said he would have to consult the Birmingham FSDO.

[PitchLink]

Good question, take a look at 61.153 and 61.161. You can do what you're asking because you already meet the eligibility requirements of 61.153 as a fixed wing ATP. You will need to meet the experience requirements listed in 61.161 and take the add-on, FAA helicopter ATP written exam. I can explain in more detail if need be, but that should answer your question. Good luck!

[Retreating Brain Stall]

Review the requirements for a commercial and an instrument vs. the ATP. Depending on your aeronautical experience you'll have to evaluate which will be cost effective and which you desire more. You'd be just fine with a commercial/instrument vs the ATP if money and aeronautical experience become an issue. Remember to read the parts that say in a helicopter like instrument 15 hours and a few other requirements and the ATP requires 25 instrument in a helicopter (provided you already have the 40 or 75 hours total instrument. Since you are already a rated pilot, the choice is yours which way you go:)

Good luck.

[cburg]

 

Is there any chance you're the student asking around in the Enterprise, AL area? I was listening to an instructor and an examiner discuss this very issue on Saturday. If you look at the regs, assuming you received your ATP under Part 61, I think it's Kosher; however the examiner disagreed and said he would have to consult the Birmingham FSDO.

I'm in Texas, but let us know if you hear about the outcome. Thanks.

[iChris]

I’m an ATP airplane and Private helicopter. Can I skip Commercial and add-on Helicopter ATP if I meet all the experience requirements?

 

The confusion with some DPEs has been over the wording in §61.153[d][1]:

 

“Holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating issued under this part;”

 

In some other parts the wording is more direct, instead of just “holds” it states, “holds at least.”

 

Also note that under §61.153[d][3] it allows for a foreign ATP holder to do exactly what you’re asking; “Holds either a foreign airline transport pilot license with instrument privileges, or a foreign commercial pilot license with an instrument rating, …“

 

However, Some DPEs understand the issue and your current ATP will allow a direct add-on to your ATP, if you meet all the requirements of §61.165.

 

Specific knowledge, flight proficiency, flight experience, and endorsement requirements for additional category, class, or type rating (at the ATP certification level) are located in section §61.165.

 

§61.165 Additional aircraft category and class ratings.

 

[a] Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating. A person applying for an airline transport certificate with a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating who holds an airline transport pilot certificate with another aircraft category rating must:

 

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this part;

 

(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of §61.155[c] of this part;

 

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157 of this part, if appropriate;

 

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements of §61.161 of this part; and

 

(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of §61.157[e][4] of this part.

 

§61.153 Eligibility requirements: General.

 

[d] Meet at least one of the following requirements:

 

(1) Holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating issued under this part;

 

(2) Meet the military experience requirements under §61.73 of this part to qualify for a commercial pilot

certificate, and an instrument rating if the person is a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot of an Armed Force of the United States; or

 

(3) Holds either a foreign airline transport pilot license with instrument privileges, or a foreign commercial pilot license with an instrument rating, that—

 

You previously met the requirement of §61.153[d][1] in order to obtain your current ATP and as a current holder of an ATP (issued under Part 61) you are afforded the same privileges as a commercial pilot with an instrument rating under section §61.167.

 

You also have backup in the FAA’s own guidance in the 8900.1 Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 18, Paragraph 5-713 Procedures - Conducting an Airline Transport Pilot Certification, Including Additional Category/Class Ratings were it states:

 

“At least a commercial pilot certificate and an instrument rating, or as permitted by §61.153[d][2] or [3];” REF: 8900.1

Edited January 10, 2014 by iChris

[aeroscout]

iChris, are you a DPE ? If not you would probably make a great one.

[iChris]

iChris, are you a DPE ? If not you would probably make a great one.

 

Thanks for the compliment; however, I’ve not filled the DPE role. Done time as Engineering Representative (DER), Chief Pilot, Director of Operations, General Manager, etc. In the course of dealing with the FAA, various companies, various aircraft, and various pilot issues you cover lots of regulatory topics, problems, and bones of contention.