More On Networking

[Nearly Retired]

We have often discussed the merits of networking on this forum. Most of us agree that it is of utmost importance, especially if you’re just starting out in this career. But one guy in particular never had a need for “networking” because employers always became aware by divine intervention of his stellar skills and abilities. So there you go- two sides of the coin.

 

I have a friend who I’ve known for many years. I met him in 2007 when he was a mechanic’s helper at an operation in Pensacola, FL. He had a commercial license but just didn’t have enough time for a PIC slot. So he worked as a helper and built his time riding along on maintenance test flights and, eventually, the odd ferry flight when the company felt they could trust him.

 

Great guy – we’ll call him “John.” Personable and fun. Knowledgeable but humble. Confident but not arrogant. And a damn good pilot. The kind of guy everyone likes having around.

 

From the day I met him, “John” has been working at getting a job in the Utility field. To that end, he weasled a deal to get long-line training in a LongRanger at his Pensacola employer and ultimately got “carded” by the USFS. It was expensive for the operator to do. Why did they do it when John never slung a load for them? Because they liked him – wanted him to succeed. He’s that kind of guy.

 

From the beginning, John also began getting to know everyone he could in the Utility field. He went everywhere and did everything, even if it meant getting only a few hours in a particular job. He did power-line patrol. He did cherry-drying. If he were traveling he’d stop in at operators just to say hi and let them get to know him. He networked relentlessly. Through his contacts he stepped from one job to another (not always gracefully, but you know how it goes…). He even crashed one and thankfully was not hurt or killed.

 

It took him a long time, but it paid off. For the last two years he’s working full-time for a Utility operator, doing all kinds of jobs from stringing powerlines to long-line hook work to fire-fighting. He is, as we say, “living the dream.” I couldn’t be more proud of him. He’s also become one of my closest friends. He’s one of the very few people who has a key to my house and can show up to “crash” even if I’m not there. And I’m not the only one who feels that way about him.

 

There’s another guy that both “John” and I know. Let’s call him “Jim.” (This is a tiny industry. It won’t take you fools long to figure out exactly who I’m talking about here.) “Jim” has about 2,000 hours; most of that was attained while he was a CFI. Jim would also like a career as a professional helicopter pilot, preferably in the Utility field.

 

Unfortunately, Jim has a bad attitude. Because of his total flight time and amount of personal time he’s already invested, he feels that by now he should be eligible for a “decent” full-time job. Either he refuses to network, or he is failing to take advantage of the contacts he’s already made. He is unwilling to do any serious legwork. He’d sent a resume off to an operator 350 miles away. The operator emailed him back and said, “Hey, you don’t meet our total time requirements but we’d like some more information about you.” A normal pilot would have grabbed his helmet, jumped in his car and went there to answer any questions in person. A normal pilot would’ve somehow wrangled a little pre-employment checkride – or at least done whatever it took to get an “in” with them.

 

Not Jim! Oh no, he let the opportunity pass. He did the same with another job – y’all remember the power-line patrol contract that came available not long ago in Kansas? Jim made it to the short list of candidates (from the hundreds of resumes they received). Financially unable to actually drive to Kansas, the understanding company set up a Skype interview between Jim and the Chief Pilot. The day of the interview Jim had a student to fly and blew them off. Then he called asking if they could reschedule it. They said, basically, “Don’t call us; we’ll call you.” There’s more – much more – but I won’t get into it. Let’s just say that Jim’s career has kind of…well…stalled.

 

One thing working against Jim is his personality. He’s annoying. He’s one of these “it’s all about me” guys. He asks a million “dumb” questions (questions that any 2,000-hour CFI should know…questions that you suspect he already knows the answer to but wants to see if *you* know). He talks and talks and talks about what he claims to know while simultaneously demonstrating how little he actually knows. If you try to tell him something, he doesn't want to listen if he's already heard something conflicting that he believes more. It’s sad to say, but unlike the other guy, Jim is actually the kind of person you *don’t* want hanging around.

 

Jim was instructing a student in a Bell 206. We sat in a restaurant one day and he was bragging to me about how much he was banging this wealthy kid for his services. At the same time he was pumping me for information about the 206 (an aircraft he had relatively little experience in), all of which he wanted for free, of course…come on, as a friend! I told him what *my* daily rate was, and that any “official” 206 instruction/information would be given at that rate. He thought I was joking. I wasn’t. That was about the last time I spoke to him.

 

Not saying we shouldn’t be paid fairly and appropriately for our time, but I don’t like people who brag about taking advantage of others. Hey, whatever your deal is, that’s between you and the client. And if you tell me, try not to gloat, okay?

 

Right now, “John” is trying to help “Jim” get another job. We all know that in this industry you have to go where the work is. But Jim will not go. John told him to go to Louisiana, rent a car and stop in at Era, PHI and Bristow – “Hey, I was in the area…” Jim prefers to send resumes off and have jobs come to him.

 

The bottom line is that yes, networking is important. No doubt about that in my book. But there’s more to it. It's not always about numbers in a logbook or your magnificent stick skills. You have to be someone people want to hire and work with and have around. That’s an intangible. We all like to think we're Jay Leno, but we're not. And sometimes that intangible is worth more than the numbers in your logbook.

 

Sometimes if you show up and people immediately like you, you might get a job you are otherwise not really qualified for. I’ve seen it happen more than once. But sometimes you don't get the job and you never know why. It could be...could be...that you're not making a good first impression. I feel badly for this guy, "Jim." On the other hand, if he keeps plugging away, I'm sure he'll eventually land some sort of flying gig. I've seen that happen more than once as well.

[Jaybee]

One other thing I've heard people say is - "Luck". As in that guy is "lucky". That guy got three job offers in the middle of the winter due to "luck". Well, maybe.... probably... I'd like to think though that "luck" is created - just in the same way as you described your friend "John" created his "luck".

 

[rotornut67]

No such thing as luck..."luck is where preparation meets opportunity"

[Jaybee]

Yea ! that's what I was trying to say

[RACKMAN]

Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated.

-R

[Azhigher]

That was legitimately a decent story and I feel like I really got to know both "John" and "Jim". Excellent character development, a gripping plot, and a nice lesson at the end. I think your post had just about everything.

 

One criticism, your story needs a love interest. Maybe throw in a girl who works at an FBO or something. Oh, I've got it! Maybe "Jim" secretly is in love with "John"! Wouldn't that be a juicy plot twist!? Or maybe later you could reveal that "John" is secretly an atheist who overcame all odds and achieved a modicum of success.

 

Anywho, I'm just spitballing here. Feel free to take any of this and run with it.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Azhigher

[Nearly Retired]

LOL, Azhigher, too funny. And actually...there is a love interest. I didn't want to put it in because, a) It's not absolutely relevant to the networking theme, and the story was long enough as it was. Maybe I'll explore it in future episodes though.

 

UPDATE: Ironically, I heard last night that the pilot I referred to as "Jim" has gotten himself a couple of interviews lined up. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he not only gets hired but that the job works out too. Those of us who know him are cautious. He has a way of shooting himself in the foot. I will, of course, let you all know.

[Azhigher]

Keeping it socked away for a sequel? Oh man, I've underestimated you good sir. Well played =)

[HighCountry]

Great story. I enjoyed the details in this post that did not make it into our emails back and forth on the topic.

 

Some great suggestions on how to turn a possible employer into a job offer. I can honestly say that I have not met the minimums on the majority of the jobs I've had over the past 20 years. If all you're doing is relying on your flight time to get a job, you're either missing out on other opportunities or your not challenging yourself professionally.

 

"John" will go as far as he wants. "Jim" will stagnate and be the guy complaining about how horrible a career aviation is.

[aeroscout]

LOL, Azhigher, too funny. And actually...there is a love interest. I didn't want to put it in because, a) It's not absolutely relevant to the networking theme, and the story was long enough as it was. Maybe I'll explore it in future episodes though.

 

UPDATE: Ironically, I heard last night that the pilot I referred to as "Jim" has gotten himself a couple of interviews lined up. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he not only gets hired but that the job works out too. Those of us who know him are cautious. He has a way of shooting himself in the foot. I will, of course, let you all know.

You do know what the perfect job/opportunity would be for "Jim" ? I am thinking cherry drying.

 

 

As for luck, I have seen that the harder people work, the luckier they get.

 

 

edit add.

Edited January 20, 2014 by aeroscout

[Nearly Retired]

Hey Scout, the problem with cherry-drying is that you don't build a bunch of flight time. Basically, we sit around drinking beer and eating too much and waiting for it to rain...or, more correctly, wait for it to stop raining although some farmers do want us out there while it's still raining. And it doesn't rain often, which is why the growers grow cherries there. Temperate climate, lotsa water from the rivers for irrigation and not a whole lot of rain. Perfect! Well...almost perfect, because it does sometimes rain. And for that eventuality there is a whole damn fleet of helicopters parked in (or near) orchards in central Washington with bored and sometimes very drunk pilots. Hey, when it's severe-clear with a 0% chance of rain forecast for the next two weeks, what else is there to do? I mean, there's only so much porn you can watch in a day. Trust me, I know!

 

But more than that, cherry-dryers are pretty cut-off from the rest of the helicopter industry. We're up there in the middle of nowhere. Have I used this joke? One of the guys who lives up there year-round describes it this way: "It's not Bumphuck, Egypt, but we get their mail." Cute. And so it's hard to keep tabs on what's going on in the rest of the world. Oh, I surf JH and VR and that other website run by those insufferable, know-it-all, stick-up-their-ass Brits (PPRUNE), and OF COURSE there's always Facebook surfing and picture-posting to do. But mostly I sit around dreaming up new ways of pissing-off people who are easily pissoffable, like writing about faith and...you know...that woman (speaking of insufferable!) who thinks she's the biggest expert on helicopters when in reality we all know *I* am...

 

But I digress.

 

Perhaps "Jim" should come up and dry cherries. They're certainly not going to dry themselves, and the job - to be perfectly frank...may I be Frank?...doesn't take a whole lot of talent or skill. Or people-skills. Then again, we had one guy working with us last season who spent the ENTIRE time looking...and I mean actively seeking...and telling us he was looking for...another job. He had to take a day off (we're typically on continuous-duty from 15 June to the end of the season) to go take his ag test or something. Then he did get slot with some spray company and had to leave early. We were, like, "Why even commit to work for us if you're constantly trying to find something else before the season is over?" And he's been texting me every now and then, making noises like he wants to come back this coming season. As if! You think the boss is going to hire him back? Not broddy rikery!

 

So anyways Aeroscout, long story short, yeah "Jim" should probably dry cherries.

[avbug]

But one guy in particular never had a need for “networking” because employers always became aware by divine intervention of his stellar skills and abilities.

 

 

You just can't open your mouth without vile crap pouring out, can you?

 

To be clear, your'e referring to me, and I said no such thing. If you can't speak the truth, keep your unnerved bible bashing trap shut.

 

Networking is necessary (was necessary…you lost your nerve to fly, remember) for you because apparently it's the only way you could find employment. Not so for everyone. The traditional method of forwarding a resume and getting a response still works just fine.

[aeroscout]

Let's be polite, and not be like the impolite forum.

 

 

edit punc.

Edited January 21, 2014 by aeroscout

[Azhigher]

This thread just took an interesting turn...

[avbug]

Polite starts with not telling lies. Nearly Retired can't come on this site without badmouthing someone, telling lies, or spouting off with his religious venom. It's tiresome.

 

This thread is nothing more than the same.

 

"Jim" didn't network Nearly Retired, and now look at the poor sad sack. That's what he gets for not coming on bended knee to Nearly Retired.

 

Today it's politely referred to as "humble bragging," but it's arrogance, venom, and more crap spewing forth from the self-proclaimed coward of the sky.

 

What's the matter, NR, was the poor kid not a believer in God, or did he just not give you the groveling respect you think you deserve? Hard to imagine someone not going out there on their own and getting a job without you, or you just can't imagine that it's possible, because you can't find employment without doing the same?

[Nearly Retired]

Wow. Just wow. Avnut, you have managed to COMPLETELY miss the point of my original post in this thread. But why am I not surprised?

 

My post was not about me; it was about two guys I know, one of whom has become a close friend. That guy...the one I called "John" built his career with no help from me. From day-one he wanted to work in the Utility sector - and I have exactly zero contacts in Utility. "John" did all the legwork and networking himself (I thought I made that clear). I was just lucky enough to meet him early in his career...and in him I found someone who loves to fly as much as I do - maybe more, if that's even possible, which it isn't...someone who's such a good pilot already that he makes me want to be a better pilot just so he doesn't get better than me, if that's even possible, which it is.

 

And if anything, it was *he* who helped me get into this deal flying the S-55s in Washington when he called me up all giggity one day back in 2010. "Hey, these guys have an S-55 painted up in Marine Corps colors, just like the ones your dad flew! You've GOT to come up here and fly this thing!" See, he and I have that in common - helicopter pilot fathers. We're like the aviation equivalent of Julian Lennon and Dhani Harrison. Or Dweezil Zappa and Jason Bonham. You get the idea.

 

And I did go up to Washington...three years ago...and I'll go back up again this summer. (Oh and by the way, "John" called me today. "Did you write about me on Vertical?" he asked. "One of my friends read it and recognized me." Uhhhh, well...yeah, I did. Hey, it's a tiny industry.)

 

The other pilot ("Jim") also wants a career in Utility. Again, since I don't know anyone in the Utility field, I can't help him. So it's no skin off my nose if he doesn't "network" with the mighty Nearly Retarded. My problem with the guy is that he doesn't network at all. He's got 2,000 hours, mostly all as a CFI, he thinks he knows everything, and he expects to be handed a job as if he's entitled to one. And he kind of pisses people off because he comes across as someone who has zero humility.

 

Avnut, you're a real piece of work. You apparently think I was writing about me - that the focus of my original post was about me. I think that's because when you write stuff, it's ALL about you. So you assume that everyone else just writes about themself as well. But lookee here, pal, I'm not like other guys. I know that life isn't all about me. It's a lesson you should learn there, Reverend. Or father. Or preacher...or whatever it is you call yourself in your church. Go in peace, my son.

 

Can I get an amen?

 

 

[avbug]

The other pilot ("Jim") also wants a career in Utility. Again, since I don't know anyone in the Utility field, I can't help him. So it's no skin off my nose if he doesn't "network" with the mighty Nearly Retarded. My problem with the guy is that he doesn't network at all. He's got 2,000 hours, mostly all as a CFI, he thinks he knows everything, and he expects to be handed a job as if he's entitled to one. And he kind of pisses people off because he comes across as someone who has zero humility.

 

So…the "other pilot" has a bad attitude and can't get hired. Nothing at all to do with networking, then. Whether he chooses to network or not, if he's got a bad attitude, then getting hired isn't in the cards for him.

 

Networking, of course, isn't necessary. It's helpful to some, and some find it absolutely essential, but it's hardly necessary to find work. If one is breathing, competent, certificated, and has the requisite experience for the job, one can apply just like every other person and compete for the job in the traditional, time-honored manner.

 

You seem to have a problem with those who might do so. Why is that?

 

You apparently think I was writing about me - that the focus of my original post was about me. I think that's because when you write stuff, it's ALL about you.

 

No, I included your quote in my first statement: you wrote about me. You were very specifically referring to me, and you know it. Don't try to deny that. You've had a fit in the past when told I don't network and that it isn't necessary, and you still haven't gotten over that. Hence your taking a potshot at me when you began this thread.

 

Your posts are always all about you. It's you smearing another pilot because you don't like her religion, or taking some other underhanded, alcohol-induced potshot at some slice of the industry (as you've stated later, after the fact), and always the underlying theme is you.

 

In this case you decided to make very inaccurate statements about me. You didn't name me, but we both know exactly who your target was when you wrote "But one guy in particular never had a need for “networking” because employers always became aware by divine intervention of his stellar skills and abilities." You were taking a potshot at me, though I've never once remotely suggested my own skils or abilities are anything other than average. I've never suggested in any way, shape or form that I've been hired for any special reason, other than the ability to compete for a job like anyone else, and because I applied for the job. That's really the point, though. Networking is NOT necessary. What is necessary is the ability to fill out an application. That's the big secret.

 

That YOU seem to think networking is absolutely essential doesn't speak well of your own ability to compete for a job, but that's no reflection on anyone but yourself.

Edited January 22, 2014 by avbug

[Jaybee]

I can guarantee for 1000% that he was not talking about you Avbug, because I know exactly who he was talking about and that guy can jump in a pile of poo and come out smelling like roses.

 

Paranoid delusional much ?

[avbug]

I can guarantee for 1000% that he was not talking about you Avbug, because I know exactly who he was talking about and that guy can jump in a pile of poo and come out smelling like roses.

Paranoid delusional much ?

 

Not at all. NR knows he referenced me when he stated "But one guy in particular never had a need for “networking” because employers always became aware by divine intervention of his stellar skills and abilities." He's made the same comments in the past, usually accompanied by very unprofessional name calling and adjectives.

 

We've had this discussion before. Networking can be used; many do. It's entirely unnecessary, and one can have a long and prosperous career without any need for name dropping, pulling strings, or using buddies to get an "in" at this company or that. It can be done as simply as filling out the application and putting one's name in the hat, along with everyone else. It really is that simple. NR had heartburn about it the first time I said it, and he's brought it up a few times since. The present is no different.

 

Whom "John" or "Jim" might be, I don't know, and don't care.

[Nearly Retired]

Oh Avi...may I call you Avi? I mean, we're friends now, right? You know...you're right in that I think networking is essential for up-and-coming low-time pilots who at this point in their careers haven't done too much to differentiate themselves from all the other guys who are in the same boat. You know, the guys who don't have much longline or firefighting experience...guys like my friends "John" and "Jim"...guys who need more than just their resume to get a job. You, on the other hand, express an opposing view.

 

I thought I made it clear in the lead paragraph of my story that there *were* two opposing views. Which was my point. However you chose to take it as a huge personal insult and focus solely on that. I'll tell ya man, you have the most easily-bunchable panties of any girl I've ever met.

 

And in fact, a friend called me the other day and asked if the VR poster who calls himself "Avbug" wasn't actually a certain female R-44 atheist/pilot who used to live in a town hilariously called Wiccanburg? (Oh, we should explain that in 1946 the Chamber of Commerce forced the town council to clean up the name and change the spelling to the less offensive "Wickenburg" but let's not be coy, 'kay?) And you know...I had to think about that! Maybe he's a she! I mean, "Avbug" does pretend to be a man and all (I think)...but he certainly has female sensibilities when it comes to being offended. And wouldn't it be interesting if an atheist took an opposing view on Christianity merely for argument's sake? Hey...wait a minute...where have we seen that before? So...bottom line...I don't know. Maybe so.

 

And that's the problem with internet forums like these. Everybody's a tough guy...everybody's an expert...everybody knows more and has done more than me...but nobody wants to say who they are. Everybody is so afraid of having their identity known. But yet they want you to respect my authori-tie! "By God, I know what I'm talking about!! But...you can't know who I am...you'll just have to take my word that I am what I say I am, without actually knowing anything about me." Uhhhhh yeaaaaahhhhh. You know, that doesn't work for me.

 

I write from the heart and from the soul. I write about the human aspects of being a pilot - we're not cold, calculating, unfeeling robots!

 

Sometimes I'll fly along, hungover, slouched in the seat, feet up on top of the pedals, picking my nose or something...and I'll see some achingly beautiful scene...like, the sun will suddenly shine down through the broken clouds causing that spectacular radiant effect...and I'll reach up and hit the "Pause" button on the panel just so I can take a moment and go, "My God..." and think to myself how lucky I am to be a pilot and see this earth that was created especially for us. Why, it can bring a tear to my eye. Or it would...if I were a little girl. So I keep that in, because manly men aren't moved emotionally by things of great beauty. At least, manly men(?) like Avbug aren't.

 

So, while others bask in their anonymity, you guys know who I am - it's no secret. Some of you who are members here know me personally. I'm not ashamed of who I am. I'm not embarrassed or ashamed of being wrong (I call it "temporarily mistaken") on those very, very, very rare occasions when that happens.

 

You don't want to network? Fine. Be a lone wolf. You still might make it in this business. But there are those who do appreciate the value of networking...like my friend, "John." And guys like him will not only go far, but they'll make some awesome, lifelong friends along the way.

 

And then there are guys like Avbug...

[pilot#476398]

Wait, wait wait...I thought the guy who "never had a need for networking" was avbug and "Jim" was that chick with the 44?

 

Damn! Get up to take a wiz, and miss half the movie!

 

...and what's offensive about the spelling Wiccanburg?

[WolftalonID]

I swear i hijacked this thread this morning.....maybe I dremt it.

 

This thread is seriously pathetic. Men who are grown argueing like bitchy housewives. I grew up, found life isnt really full of bullshit, just life. Everyone has a right to live life for themselves.

 

Noone has the right to shove their life down the throats of others. Those seeking advise should listen to the advise given. However those giving advise should first adhere to the wise words of their mothers.

 

That advise is simply.... If you have nothing positive to say, say nothing at all.

 

We as Americans have watched so damn much drama on TV, we think we need to start our own.

 

So as grown men, and or women, shut the F up, grow up, and try to help grow this industry like professionals, not drama queens from jersey.

 

I am not a badass forum poster, I live in Nampa Idaho, and will say this to your face if you feel the need to fly down and discuss it.

 

So lets just let guys figure it out for themselves, and go on with our personal business. Lets not shove our nose deep up someones ass and tell them we are there to help. Lets be wise, and offer professional advise along our path in life and ignore the drama, its not real guys.....its bullshit, and i dont have boots that deep.

[Nearly Retired]

WolftalonID:

No one has the right to shove their life down the throats of others. Those seeking advise should listen to the advise given. However those giving advise should first adhere to the wise words of their mothers.

That advise is simply.... If you have nothing positive to say, say nothing at all.

 

 

Well, my first piece of advice to you would be that it's spelled A-D-V-I-C-E. Easy mistake.

 

Secondly, ummm, you better go back and retake that Social Studies course you evidently slept through in high school. I most certainly do have the right to shove anything down your throat. It's in the Constitution; it's called freedom of speech. In fact it's the FIRST article. You might not like it, and you might not agree with it, but too bad. Nowhere in the Constitution does it give you the right to *not* be offended. Men have fought and died protecting the right of Avbug to piss me off by shoving his sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, I'm-a-Christian-and-you're-not lifestyle down my throat. I may have to take it, but I don't have to swallow it. And thank God! I'm not a very good swallower.

 

Boy, *this* post sure took a weird turn all of a sudden.

 

Pilot#476398:

Wait, wait wait...I thought the guy who "never had a need for networking" was avbug and "Jim" was that chick with the 44?

 

 

Yes, yes, the guy who never had a need for networking *is* Avbug. I guess I didn't disguise his identity well enough. Damn, saw right through it, he did! What a clever lad. But no, "Jim" is not the R-44 lady. He's just a guy I happen to have met.

 

My friend "John" called me tonight. "Hey, I was talking with 'Jim' today, and he pissed me off so I read him your post."

 

**crickets**

 

***more crickets***

 

Me: You did what?

 

"I read him your post, man. He needed to hear it."

 

Oh boy.

 

Okay, since the cat's out of the bag, I might as well get everything out in the open and name the names...starting with Avbug!

 

Naaaahhhh, I can't do that. Just wouldn't be sporting.

 

 

[Azhigher]

Oh snap! A new challenger enters the fray! Thanks for the plot twist wolftalonID.

 

You can't deny that NR has a kind of genuine charm to him. Everyone knows who he is, he's not trying to hide from anyone. Thats kind of refreshing

 

Also: Forums aren't necessarily the place to be professional. If you can't have a little fun online hiding behind a semi-private identity where can you?

 

Keep on posting NR. I'm really starting to enjoy this.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Azhigher

[aeroscout]

Oh snap! A new challenger enters the fray! Thanks for the plot twist wolftalonID.

 

You can't deny that NR has a kind of genuine charm to him. Everyone knows who he is, he's not trying to hide from anyone. Thats kind of refreshing

 

Also: Forums aren't necessarily the place to be professional. If you can't have a little fun online hiding behind a semi-private identity where can you?

 

Keep on posting NR. I'm really starting to enjoy this.

I'm all for the having a little fun. I never want it to be at someone's expense, except for maybe being intentionally self deprecating.