Important to get hired at the school that trained you?

Rosco99 · January 23, 2014

OK, so I have always thought that it was like a death sentence for your career if you don't get hired on to instruct at the school where you trained. I have been talking to a couple guys WAY smarter than me about all of this and they are saying it's not a big deal at all.

How many of you out there are flying today that didn't get hired on at the school where you trained???

Azhigher · January 24, 2014

So, the standard flight training model is a pyramid scheme. 1 instructor needs to train 4-6 students all the way through to CFI before he/she can move on, and then there are 4-6 students fighting for that one opening.

So, I ask you, what are the chances a flight school is going to have a lack of instructors trying to get hired by them?

Fwiw I knew one guy who got hired as an instructor at a school he didn't get all his ratings from. He was required to do a bunch of flying so the school could make sure he was performing to the school's standards and teaching things the way they wanted him to. It was a rare thing, and they only let him teach certain programs. I wouldn't say it's a death sentence not to get hired at your school, but it's going to make your life a hell of a lot more difficult.

Flying Pig · January 24, 2014

So by your model, only 1 out of 6 students will get hired by THEIR school?

pilot#476398 · January 24, 2014

In order for a pyramid scheme to work it must give the appearance that it is successful, so I think its probably a lot better than 1 out of 6. CFIs usually get paid only when they're teaching, not by the clock hour, so if you have no students you're not really a working CFI. However your school can still hire you and thus keep its spotless success rate even though you aren't actually working. This means that schools can hire as many graduates as they want, even if they don't need them.

Just passed your CFII, congradulations you're hired,...now if you want to get paid, go out there and find some students!

Rosco99 · January 24, 2014

I guess a more effective way to word the question would've been to ask, what happens to those instructors that are hired at their school? How do they build time?

supergokougt · January 24, 2014

I did not get hired at my main school. They were a one helicopter operation.

But I also went to three schools I wanted to get time to teach in each helicopter 300, 22, 44. I wanted to meet more people and make relationships at different schools. The one school that would have hired me was at a place I no longer was willing to move to. Eventually my CFI instructor helped me find a job at another nearby school. After that I kept working and building time.

Rotorhead84 · February 20, 2014

I would consider being relegated to instructing right away a career death sentence.

Rosco99 · February 20, 2014

You would??? What other options are there to build time?

UH60L-IP · February 21, 2014

Truly, why would instructing be a career death sentence? For those that are civilian trained, that is how 99% of them have gained time to go onto bigger and better jobs.

UH60L-IP · February 21, 2014

Flight instructing is not a pyramid scheme.

When I was a CFII in the civilian world students came to train for a few different reasons.

- Some wanted to get their private rating to say that they did it, perhaps with the intention of renting an aircraft once per month for the joy of it. They were not competing for a CFI job.

- Some were doing a helicopter add-on to a fixed wing rating, with no intention of truly going helicopter. They were not competing for a CFI job.

- Some had the intention of buying their own helicopter (some already bought one) and simply wanted to be trained to fly it. One guy I am thinking of was planning to fly it from one job site to another (he owned a large construction company). They were not competing for a CFI job.

- I flatly told everyone that started training that there was a pretty good chance that they would lose interest, or money, before completing training. They were not ultimately competing for a CFI job.

- Those that planned to become a CFI, and ultimately did, therefore stood a decent chance of getting hired, even at a smaller operation.

Did everyone that completed the program get hired? Nope. Absolutely not. I remember one guy that was consistently late, no-showed, and came up with all kinds of excuses. He was a good stick but obviously didn't study more than the minimum. I told him many times that if he intended to get hired, he was not doing very well on his 200 hour long interview. When he completed training, he applied for a job. We said no - and we actually needed a CFI at the time.

Rotorhead84 · February 21, 2014

Come on guys, I was being sarcastic. For 90% of guys it is really the only option.

pilot#476398 · February 21, 2014

Its not really the fault of flight schools that they sometimes resemble a pyramid scheme. After all they're just doing their job, making pilots. Its the rest of the industry that places absolutely no value what so ever on the low time entry level pilot, which forces 99% of us to work at just one place, the flight school!

That is until we reach 500 hours when 1% of us may find work flying tours in a 44?

Back on topic, I've actually known 3 CFIs who were hired at schools who didn't train them.

Rosco99 · February 21, 2014

My obvious plan A is to get hired on at my school, but I'll be damned if I can formulate a plan B, C, D, or anything else!! LOL

Rosco99 · February 21, 2014

One hurdle at a time, I guess.

rotormandan · February 21, 2014

I taught at a school i didn't go to. I got lucky. I got turned down after calling and emailing every school in the states for a few months. Then got a random call because they found my resume on vertical reference. The school that hired me turned me down 3 x's by phone/email but unknowingly picked my resume off of here and called me out of the blue. I was blown away they picked the generic version and none of the personalized versions i gave them. I did use Lynn's resume book so i think hat made it look good.

Edited February 21, 2014 by rotormandan

Eric Hunt · February 21, 2014

Being hired by the school that trained you is like incest - it breeds faults and doesn't introduce new thoughts or new styles.

You need to cross-pollinate by going to a different school. You might find (as one reader above did) that his own school had left a few holes in his knowledge and skills, and the new school fixed those faults. Imagine what happens when the bits that are lacking also get left out of the students that he trained, and the big hole continues on and slowly grows bigger with each generation trained.

Go to a different school. You might find that your skills fill in a hole in that school's knowledge, and they love you for it. Or, your own skills get improved.

Azhigher · February 21, 2014

^Risky proposition. I'd rather have the holes in my training be filled with training at different employers' expense as I move up through the ranks. In flight school I had one goal: Get hired. You can say there backup plans and ways to get around that, and there are, but not easily or comfortably. I watched as cfi after cfi applied and didn't get an instructing job only to go back to IT, construction, finance, whatever they were doing before as they couldn't afford to be a non-working aspiring pilot.

Perhaps I'm just a student of a different generation but there's no way I would risk school hopping and missing that first CFI job because I wasn't groomed for that position at that school. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. After spending 80k on training I didn't want to take any chances. Maybe things are different down under.

Eric Hunt · February 21, 2014

Yes, Azhigher, things are vastly different Dunnunda - you cannot start an instructor course until you have 360 hours (though this is changing).

This meant that the trainee instructor had been in the industry for a year or two, learning at the coalface, and gaining a bit of life experience, before turning around to teach a student. These hours were gained wherever he could do so, perhaps flying simple tourist ops or going bush to learn cattle mustering. he usually has to move around the country to get this work, and when he had the hours to start instructing, he might go to the nearest school, which probably isn't where he learned.

In the military, you needed a full tour (2-3 years in a squadron, and it used to be 1000hrs min) before starting instructor training.

Azhigher · February 21, 2014

I gotcha, makes sense then.

Spike · February 21, 2014

Being hired by the school that trained you is like incest - it breeds faults and doesn't introduce new thoughts or new styles.

This would depend on the school and staff. That is, the “standard” of the school is only limited by the imagination of the CFI’s. If management attempts to hinder that creativity though risk aversion, then sure, the standard will suffer and holes will develop. Additionally, even the schools which have these so-called holes or faults can flourish simply because the Feds are only interested in the “minimum standard” set forth by the PTS….. Meaning; it’s not brain surgery……

pilot#476398 · February 21, 2014

Yes, Azhigher, things are vastly different Dunnunda - you cannot start an instructor course until you have 360 hours (though this is changing).

This meant that the trainee instructor had been in the industry for a year or two, learning at the coalface, and gaining a bit of life experience, before turning around to teach a student. These hours were gained wherever he could do so, perhaps flying simple tourist ops or going bush to learn cattle mustering. he usually has to move around the country to get this work, and when he had the hours to start instructing, he might go to the nearest school, which probably isn't where he learned.

In the military, you needed a full tour (2-3 years in a squadron, and it used to be 1000hrs min) before starting instructor training.

Not sure what a coalface is, but a fresh new pilot flying simple tourist ops or cattle mustering? What a dream that would have been! If I could have done that I certainly wouldn't turn around to teach!

Guess I trained in the wrong country?

MurderedOutTaco · April 22, 2014

I agree with UH60L-IP's post. I would guess that in most cases a relatively small percentage of students make it to the point of applying for a CFI job. As an instructor, you will have a lot of intro flight one hit wonders walking thru the door, you will have some who want to just get one certificate or rating, some who will get discouraged or break their bank account part way thru their training, etc, etc. You don't "need" 6 students who go from 0 to CFI in order to have an attractive resume.

Insofar as to how to build time other than instructing, it will always be to your benefit to get an instructor job at an outfit that also uses their instructors to fly tours in piston powered equipment. My instructor probably instructs in 22's 40% of the time and flies tours in 44's the remaining 60%. Those tour hours can take up a lot of slack in building time, and also doesn't hurt the resume to have tour experience, especially considering your first turbine job has a decent likelihood of flying tours.