Starting out

[tsimmns]

I have made a couple of post, that seem like the same question, but I'm wondering about starting out. I am hoping to take an upcoming job overseas doing maintenance work as my background is NDI and Avionics. My schedule would include 90 days on and 45 days off. I know that most say you invest a ton of money for little return when it comes to helicopter schools. Since I am hoping to keep a full time job, how long would it logically take for someone to achieve all their ratings? Could you do it in under 2 years and then hope to attain a teaching job as a Flight Instructor. I am not looking to get rich flying helo's however it is a dream I have.

[superstallion6113]

I'm in the middle of the same thing. I completed my private and most of my instrument training at Guidance Aviation in Prescott and am now working in Afghanistan on a State Dept contract as an A&P mechanic on a 90/30 schedule, with the plan to make enough money to finish my ratings after doing this for a year or so. I'll finally be doing my instrument check ride on my first 30 day break in the spring.

 

If you have the money/financial resources, you can absolutely finish all of your training in 2 years, providing you have no problem learning the aeronautical knowledge/ground school material or have any issues with learning to fly.

 

Do you plan to continue working overseas while doing your flight training on your 45 day breaks? If so then the timeline will def be stretched a bit longer. One thing to take into consideration is how much time you will have to dedicate to studying while you are working overseas. It's easy to let your knowledge go to the wayside and feel behind when you do get back into the cockpit after a break. I took a year off between finishing my private check ride and starting my instrument training. And when I did finally pick up with my instrument training, it honestly took a bit to get rid of that rusty feeling.

Edited January 23, 2014 by superstallion6113

[cburg]

Class Add-ons are easier and cheaper than obtaining Category Ratings…particularly Helicopter. You can get skip Private, go straight to Commercial Gyro and get Rotorcraft Category much cheaper than in a Helicopter. Then get a Class Add-on for Commercial Helicopter. This will save you lots of money. There are other short cuts you can take to save time and money.

[tsimmns]

Thanks guys for the insight provided. As for working overseas I'm not 100% locked into a job yet. My goal is to go over there and work, take the classes while home by either going to the Upper Limit school close to me in Memphis or just finding someone to give me the lessons, not sure what would be the best route to go.

 

Cburg you make it sound like just taking lessons from someone instead of the school would be better. The thing is I have the GI bill through the National guard so I'm hoping to let it pay for some of it after I get my Private.

 

There is just so much to learn and stuff to ask, however I don't want to be 3 or 4 years down the road and yet to complete a rating at all.

[cburg]

Class Add-ons are easier and cheaper than obtaining Category Ratings…particularly Helicopter. You can get skip Private, go straight to Commercial Gyro and get Rotorcraft Category much cheaper than in a Helicopter. Then get a Class Add-on for Commercial Helicopter. This will save you lots of money. There are other short cuts you can take to save time and money.

The biggest cost savings will be if you buy a used gyro for your training, then sell it afterwards. You’ll get most or all of your money back and will only cost you gas. I’ve done this with most of my ratings over the years. The approximate cost for all the aircraft I’ve owned is near $0.00…but bought lots of gas. You have to shop carefully for a low time aircraft that does not need ANY maintenance.

[cburg]

Thanks guys for the insight provided. As for working overseas I'm not 100% locked into a job yet. My goal is to go over there and work, take the classes while home by either going to the Upper Limit school close to me in Memphis or just finding someone to give me the lessons, not sure what would be the best route to go.

 

Cburg you make it sound like just taking lessons from someone instead of the school would be better. The thing is I have the GI bill through the National guard so I'm hoping to let it pay for some of it after I get my Private.

 

There is just so much to learn and stuff to ask, however I don't want to be 3 or 4 years down the road and yet to complete a rating at all.

Sorry...forget everything I said. This approach is for sombody who is doing it out of pocket on the cheap

[pilot#476398]

Class Add-ons are easier and cheaper than obtaining Category Ratings…particularly Helicopter. You can get skip Private, go straight to Commercial Gyro and get Rotorcraft Category much cheaper than in a Helicopter. Then get a Class Add-on for Commercial Helicopter. This will save you lots of money. There are other short cuts you can take to save time and money.

 

From what I've seen employers for that first job (flight instruction) want 200 hours in helicopters. So how would add-ons be cheaper?

[cburg]

 

From what I've seen employers for that first job (flight instruction) want 200 hours in helicopters. So how would add-ons be cheaper?

Here's what he said at first:

 

"hoping to keep a full time job, how long would it logically take for someone to achieve all their ratings? Could you do it in under 2 years and then hope to attain a teaching job as a Flight Instructor"

 

Sounded like he wanted his ratings fast and cheap. Said nothing initially about government paying for his training. He'd then need to get a gig as a low time CFI and build time, or buy his own to fly.

 

Example:

 

I bought a Twin Comanche to get ratings in. Got my Multi, Instrument, Commercial, MEI, and ATP in it and sold it for what I paid for it 900 hours later. Just paid for gas.

 

It was really easy and cheap to get Instructors...they were desperately building multi-time.

 

In his case, it doesn't apply since his training is paid for.

[cburg]

Here's what he said at first:

 

"hoping to keep a full time job, how long would it logically take for someone to achieve all their ratings? Could you do it in under 2 years and then hope to attain a teaching job as a Flight Instructor"

 

Sounded like he wanted his ratings fast and cheap. Said nothing initially about government paying for his training. He'd then need to get a gig as a low time CFI and build time, or buy his own to fly.

 

Example:

 

I bought a Twin Comanche to get ratings in. Got my Multi, Instrument, Commercial, MEI, and ATP in it and sold it for what I paid for it 900 hours later. Just paid for gas.

 

It was really easy and cheap to get Instructors...they were desperately building multi-time.

 

In his case, it doesn't apply since his training is paid for.

I was then qualified to get $19,000 a year at the regionals ;-)

[aeroscout]

I thought about getting some gyro time, but no helicopter employers will count it as rotary time.

[pilot#476398]

Here's what he said at first:

 

"hoping to keep a full time job, how long would it logically take for someone to achieve all their ratings? Could you do it in under 2 years and then hope to attain a teaching job as a Flight Instructor"

 

Sounded like he wanted his ratings fast and cheap. Said nothing initially about government paying for his training. He'd then need to get a gig as a low time CFI and build time, or buy his own to fly.

 

Example:

 

I bought a Twin Comanche to get ratings in. Got my Multi, Instrument, Commercial, MEI, and ATP in it and sold it for what I paid for it 900 hours later. Just paid for gas.

 

It was really easy and cheap to get Instructors...they were desperately building multi-time.

 

In his case, it doesn't apply since his training is paid for.

 

I don't know how the average wanabee pilot can afford to buy his own aircraft? Even then it would still have to be a helicopter, because even with 5000 hours in a twin comanche and helicopter add-ons I'd still need to get to 200 hours in helicopters to get a job in one! Which means buying more helicopter time! So the add-on method just doesn't make sense. As for buying a helicopter to train in and then selling it afterwards, well,...?

[pilot#476398]

 

 

I bought a Twin Comanche to get ratings in. Got my Multi, Instrument, Commercial, MEI, and ATP in it and sold it for what I paid for it 900 hours later. Just paid for gas.

 

 

 

What about insurance costs?,...maintenance inspections? Seems like you would have to sell it for more than what you bought it for to "just pay for gas"?

[Mikemv]

Be fore warned that Part 61 may be changing to require "200 hrs. in helicopters" as an initial CFI-RH requirement.

[pilot#476398]

Be fore warned that Part 61 may be changing to require "200 hrs. in helicopters" as an initial CFI-RH requirement.

 

Seems to me that would only effect the guys who train in the 300 or enstrom (since we robbie rangers already need 200hrs to teach). Any idea what percentage they are?

[aeroscout]

 

What about insurance costs?,...maintenance inspections? Seems like you would have to sell it for more than what you bought it for to "just pay for gas"?

The no insurance option is being used more for owners who own their aircraft outright.

[Mikemv]

 

Seems to me that would only effect the guys who train in the 300 or enstrom (since we robbie rangers already need 200hrs to teach). Any idea what percentage they are?

P#47,

 

This recommendation+ comes from the USHST JHSIT trng. work group as we address accidents from NTSB reports. It is about reducing instructional accidents (a high %) and we do not look at R's, 300s or E's, others as a percentage of which helicopter is used (who reports/compiles that info?) in the 200 hour recommendation but eliminating the 50 hr. additional cat. add on and then no additional training required to CFI-RH.

 

Tim Tucker initiated this after presenting other countries Helicopter instructor levels and requirements to attain those levels (CFI-H LI, LII,LIII,

L-IV.

 

We did note that R22/44 pilots would meet this via the SFAR.

 

I posted the heads up for those thinking of going the airplane or gyro (flown like an airplane) add on to RH.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Mikemv

[ericcbohn]

Be fore warned that Part 61 may be changing to require "200 hrs. in helicopters" as an initial CFI-RH requirement.

 

Do you have a link explaining this?

[cburg]

 

I don't know how the average wanabee pilot can afford to buy his own aircraft? Even then it would still have to be a helicopter, because even with 5000 hours in a twin comanche and helicopter add-ons I'd still need to get to 200 hours in helicopters to get a job in one! Which means buying more helicopter time! So the add-on method just doesn't make sense. As for buying a helicopter to train in and then selling it afterwards, well,...?

Training in your own aircraft was the point of my example...not logging FW time.

 

If you have all of your ratings to get...then training in your own aircraft MAY save money. If the government is paying for all of your training...the point is moot.

 

Please note that a Class Add-on (Gyro to Heli) is what was was talking about in a previous post. It's another way to save money on training.

 

One size does not fit all...and there are numerous strategies for flight training. It's good to be familiar with all of them.

[Mikemv]

 

Do you have a link explaining this?

No link available.

 

This is part of a new CFI RH Enhancement program being tested by the FAA thru the Orlando FSDO and accident reduction recommendations from the USHST about Part 61 in the CFI-RH area.

 

There is more to the recs. and we are exploring a voluntary acceptance with recognition by USHST.

[pilot#476398]

P#47,

 

This recommendation+ comes from the USHST JHSIT trng. work group as we address accidents from NTSB reports. It is about reducing instructional accidents (a high %) and we do not look at R's, 300s or E's, others as a percentage of which helicopter is used (who reports/compiles that info?) in the 200 hour recommendation but eliminating the 50 hr. additional cat. add on and then no additional training required to CFI-RH.

 

Tim Tucker initiated this after presenting other countries Helicopter instructor levels and requirements to attain those levels (CFI-H LI, LII,LIII,

L-IV.

 

We did note that R22/44 pilots would meet this via the SFAR.

 

I posted the heads up for those thinking of going the airplane or gyro (flown like an airplane) add on to RH.

 

I didn't know the helicopter add-on route was popular enough to warrent regulation change? Still, if the guys who train in 300s also need 200 hours to be CFIs then that would kinda suck for them, since it generally costs more per hour to fly that than the 22!

[pilot#476398]

Training in your own aircraft was the point of my example...not logging FW time.

 

If you have all of your ratings to get...then training in your own aircraft MAY save money. If the government is paying for all of your training...the point is moot.

 

Please note that a Class Add-on (Gyro to Heli) is what was was talking about in a previous post. It's another way to save money on training.

 

One size does not fit all...and there are numerous strategies for flight training. It's good to be familiar with all of them.

 

My point was that the percentage of wannabee career pilots who can buy their own aircraft has got to be very, very, very, small!

 

Believe me, if I could buy a helicopter to knock out the remaining 350 hours I need to be able to apply for entry level jobs in the Grand Canyon and Alasaka, I would!

[cburg]

 

My point was that the percentage of wannabee career pilots who can buy their own aircraft has got to be very, very, very, small!

 

Believe me, if I could buy a helicopter to knock out the remaining 350 hours I need to be able to apply for entry level jobs in the Grand Canyon and Alasaka, I would!

I've only taken out a loan on one aircraft...don't recall it being too bad...but that was quite a while ago. I learned then that re-sellabilty (and no maintenance) is the key...not the price...because hopefully you'll be getting rid of it in six months or perhaps less.

 

It would be a great help to have a partner or two. Be safety pilots and get the cost down.

[cburg]

Here are a few informative threads about Add-ons and general cost saving:

 

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18873

 

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37014

 

http://vps.zoniehosting.com/~rotary/forum/showthread.php?t=39717&page=2

 

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28574

 

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14485

[Spike]

I have made a couple of post, that seem like the same question, but I'm wondering about starting out. I am hoping to take an upcoming job overseas doing maintenance work as my background is NDI and Avionics. My schedule would include 90 days on and 45 days off. I know that most say you invest a ton of money for little return when it comes to helicopter schools. Since I am hoping to keep a full time job, how long would it logically take for someone to achieve all their ratings? Could you do it in under 2 years and then hope to attain a teaching job as a Flight Instructor. I am not looking to get rich flying helo's however it is a dream I have.

 

If you go in with the appropriate amount of cash to pay for your training, living expenses, books and materials, food, examiner and testing fees, time building expenses, with some additional funds let over for whatever, you can finish in 9 to 14 months as a full time student….. The 2 year estimate is for “other than” a full-timer…..

 

Flight schools often “let the chips fall where they may” when discussing graduation timeframes. Students usually find themselves running way over the original timeframe estimation, for whatever reason, which by-the-way, highly benefits the school. This is poor execution. If you have all of the funds available, it is possible for a school to give you a graduation date and hit that date +/- 2 weeks… If they can’t do this, it means they simply “let the chips fall where they may” with your training program and that’s not a school I’d want to sink my gazillion dollars in…..

Edited January 25, 2014 by Spike

[tsimmns]

Spike thanks for this info. I plan to have all the funds/cash available when I start this. I want all my dots in order. I don't want to have to stop halfway through because of money issues. I want to start and train right through, without even possilby having to work during this time. If when I get out I can find a job instructing great. I just want there to be some job out there when I finish. I am not looking for a 60k job having 200 hours or so.