Category "A" & "B" take-off and landing

[codeen]

If NOT following Category "A" or "B" take-off and landing procedures taken from the RFM while taking off or landing, where are other APPROVED procedures written, certified or otherwise deemed reasonable and prudent to use? What is the procedure to use in order to obtain the highest level of safety during t/o and landing?

 

 

Pros, please chime in.....

[Pohi]

We use PC2 procedures

 

http://www.eurocopter.com/mailing2/doc_wsw/oil_gaz_14/pc214.pdf

 

http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2139.pdf (TL:DR)

Edited February 15, 2014 by Pohi

[Spike]

If NOT following Category "A" or "B" take-off and landing procedures taken from the RFM while taking off or landing, where are other APPROVED procedures written, certified or otherwise deemed reasonable and prudent to use? What is the procedure to use in order to obtain the highest level of safety during t/o and landing?

 

 

Take-off or landing from where?

[jjsemperfi]

I'm with ya Spike, not sure if they're talking about IAP's or what?

[Pohi]

The cat A in my RFM doesn't have much to do with IAP's. Only a footnote about being able to accelerate/decelerate to Vy in VMC when using cat A in conjunction with IFR.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Pohi

[jjsemperfi]

So Vy in VMC while simulating IFR? Sorry but I'm lost.

[WolftalonID]

Maybe its in reference to a scary departure where its VMC, but the pilot might be scared and closes their eyes... ?

[Joe_P148]

Yeah I'm lost too, are you talking about the rfm for a specific aircraft to and from an oil platform in VMC conditions? I would be under the impression that, that is more of a local / company procedure or specific to the individual aircraft. Can you elaborate your question?

[Joe_P148]

Maybe its in reference to a scary departure where its VMC, but the pilot might be scared and closes their eyes... ?

A hooded departure?

[Pohi]

So Vy in VMC while simulating IFR? Sorry but I'm lost.

I'm just repeating what the RFM says. I'm guessing they want you to be able to do an aborted takeoff while you are still VMC and land VMC after an approach. Aka, still visual reference to the surface and not zero/zero vis.

 

 

If you can't understand what that means, don't fly cat A in conjunction with IFR :-)

Edited February 17, 2014 by Pohi

[Pohi]

Double post

Edited February 17, 2014 by Pohi

[Eggbeater]

Allright, bear with me as this stuff can be pretty dry; I use it as my sleeping aid, works like a charm.

 

Cat A and Cat B in this case refer to the performance of a twin engine helicopter after an OEI(one engine inop) event. This is completely different from the Category A B C and D on an Instrument approach as those refer to the speed that the approach is flown.

 

The way I understand it is the only difference between Cat A, PC2, and Cat B is weight.

 

A Cat A takeoff profile guarantees that if an engine should fail at any point in the takeoff, the aircraft can either be safely rolled onto a long paved surface or flown away using the remaining engine. Let's say you don't have a 10,000 ft runway to use and are limited to a 1000 ft flyway for example; in this case you would have to download your takeoff weight to have the performance required to fly Cat A.

 

A Cat B makes no guarantee, and is basically the airspeed over altitude takeoff that most of us are trained to do as a Private Pilot.

 

PC2(performance class 2) is a procedure developed by customers to allow heavier takeoffs from shorter flyways while minimizing exposure to the risk of an engine failure. By following a standardized takeoff/landing profile and following a weight limit chart that isn't quite as restrictive as Cat A, the exposure time for an engine failure resulting in bent metal is limited(usually only a couple seconds). This gives the customer more payload while being safer than Cat B.

 

Cat A and PC2 profiles are usually established for onshore and offshore elevated helideck takeoffs and landings. Some customers require PC2 at all times, while some request that it is done whenever possible.

 

So, if you don't have the performance to do a Cat A or PC2 departure, you should do a Cat B takeoff. I believe the RFM reference that was posted is there to ensure that you maintain VFR while doing a Cat A takeoff or landing. Popping into the soup while trying to follow the nose down profile of a Cat A takeoff could prove harmful to your health. Hope this helped, anyone with more information please chime in...

Edited February 19, 2014 by Eggbeater

[Joe_P148]

Egg beater, thank you for this info I had no idea there's takeoff procedure were named. What RFM are you referencing?

[codeen]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion. Please keep it going, any and all replies are appreciated!

[Eggbeater]

I'm just repeating what the RFM says. I'm guessing they want you to be able to do an aborted takeoff while you are still VMC and land VMC after an approach. Aka, still visual reference to the surface and not zero/zero vis.

 

image.jpg

 

If you can't understand what that means, don't fly cat A in conjunction with IFR :-)

NP Joe, this RFM snippet is what I was referencing in the post.

[Eggbeater]

Just to give an idea of the takeoff profile differences between Cat A and B, I pulled these two pictures from the S-92 RFM. There are also plenty of performance charts to accompany these, and they help determine things like max weight for takeoff and minimum flyway distance.

 

The first chart is Cat A. "TDP" refers to Takeoff Decision Point. If you had an engine failure before this predetermined point, you would do the rejected takeoff and land to the surface and if you had it after you continue on the one engine and fly away. You would always have one of these two options during a Cat A takeoff, provided you met the performance standards.

 

This next one is Cat B and it is just the normal takeoff that most of us know from training, with none of the guarantees for a safe landing or fly away.

 

[apiaguy]

Category A and cat B are listed in FAR part 1 definitions

Eggbeater did a good job defining them.

 

Category A, with respect to transport category rotorcraft, means multiengine rotorcraft designed with engine and system isolation features specified in Part 29 and utilizing scheduled takeoff and landing operations under a critical engine failure concept which assures adequate designated surface area and adequate performance capability for continued safe flight in the event of engine failure.

 

Category B, with respect to transport category rotorcraft, means single-engine or multiengine rotorcraft which do not fully meet all Category A standards. Category B rotorcraft have no guaranteed stay-up ability in the event of engine failure and unscheduled landing is assumed.