Active Duty Selectees, please chime in.

[NCOtoWOplz]

So I am finally going to pursue becoming an Army Aviator after having it sit in the back of my mind for a long time and being urged in the past by other pilots to "just do it".

 

I have been surfing this forum quite a bit and have gone back pretty far but a lot of threads have to deal with civilian applicants and there issues with their recruiters that doesn't really apply to AD applicants. So please excuse me if the questions have been answered in the past...

 

 

1. Moral Waiver: After I enlisted and was in the DEP I was cited for underage consumption and not wearing a seatbelt "passenger". I went to court explained my situation with enlisting and the possible adverse affects of getting my secret security clearance revoked and the judge dropped the underage consumption and I paid the seatbelt ticket and was on my way, nothing serious on my record.

 

Also a "few" speeding tickets under the age of 18...

 

Since I have enlisted I have had no other infractions since prior to joining, +/- 5 years. Do I need to even address these issues with a waiver? how does USAREC know what is or is not in your "record"

 

2. How does the NC-NS work? If I understood it correctly you get your first look, If your determined FQ-NS you get a second look at the next board. If you don't get selected at the second board you get NC-NS? Can you get NC-NS on your first look?

 

When can you re-apply if at all once determined NC-NS? is there a max amount of times you can apply? I know for the SIFT you only get 2 chances...

 

Does anyone know why people get NC-NS? I've gone through past MILPER messages and there were PFC's getting Q-S over SSG's getting NC-NS, was it errors in the packet?

 

3. Is there a "Prime-Time" to submit a packet? like at the end of the fiscal year? I only ask because SEP2013 had a 89% selection rate for 153A and JAN2014 had about 50%. Is there a trend or just luck of the draw? Usually enlisted promotions rise around the fiscal year months.

 

I know the questions I am asking makes it look like I am not a "good" soldier but I can be OCD when it comes to paperwork and like I've read I really want to "submit the best possible packet I can produce"

 

My stats:

 

AGE: 22

ASVAB AFQT/GT: ____/114 Should I try and raise it?

SIFT: Studying...

APFT: 250-270

EDUCATION: High School

FLIGHT: Just rides lol

BOARD: N/A

LORS: Shooting for a CW5

OTHER INFO: SGT/E-5, 4 yrs TIS, OEF 11-12, Promoted in Secondary Zone, WLC: Commandants list

SELECTED: Hopefully!!!

 

Also on the APFT a lot of people have been posting 270-300 PT scores but in the regular army the amount of people who actually get 300+ is like less then 5% from my experience, Are people having there supervisors buff there scores to get selected? because in another thread I read that there were like 2 PT failures and some that busted height/weight in there WOC class, how is that possible if everyone selected is apparently scoring 270+ ???

 

Sorry for the long post, just want to get all my ducks in a row and make a "bulletproof" packet. This forum has had some awesome info so far providing a lot of insight.

 

[darkstarx87]

http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/topic/16558-active-duty-applicants/?fromsearch=1

 

Not sure about the moral waiver but it doesn't seem serious ... u can always just call a recruiter.

 

You're right, you would get second look ... then it would be a year.

 

As far as who's getting selected (pfc or ssg) I would assume that they had errors or weren't very competitive in the first place ... low scores, no/little accolades, poor writing abilities, etc.

 

Not sure about pencil whipping pt scores but I wouldn't worry about those people ... just do the best you can.

 

As far as a peak-time. I would say that its a good time but may be on the decline. The implementation of the sift meant less packets ... plus they cancelled some boards (a yr ago).

[darkstarx87]

I'd use this site to compare your stats to those (AD) who are selected. That may help you get close the "bulletproof" packet you want.

[Yamer]

I'm NG but I'll give my input if you want it.

I don't think your GT score is bad, if you get a good sift score the GT score will be overlooked IMO. Get great LORs and do a great essay and I think you'll be just fine. The PT score is better to be high but above a 250 is good in my eyes.

[Yamer]

Dark star has a great idea above

[NCOtoWOplz]

Yeah i took a look at the "what are my chances" thread and it was intimidating, everyone almost had perfect ASVAB, high SIFT, college, and suspiciously high PT scores minus a few lol

 

Many were also civilians too, this is where I would like to hear more from the AD crowd and hear there "story and stats"

 

Also a lot of people had LORs from CW5s from the 160th, does everyone have an in already or are they asking for an interview LOR?

[Joe_P148]

 

 

You will get LORs through building connections with warrant officers, find some near you and start networking. If you wanna be in this field your going to need to learn how to do that.

 

Good Luck.

[NCOtoWOplz]

Networking isn't really goin to be the issue I believe. I want to make progress in the packet though first ie: physical/SIFT to prove I am serious and not just some random joe asking for a LOR without doing any of the legwork first.

 

Out of all the AD that get selected every other month or so only about 1% post here, there are probably more lurkers then anything that I'm trying to draw out with this thread and get some input/advice in what made them Q-S. I've always been a first time go on everything I've done and I don't want this to be the first thing that trips me up.

[2ndGen]

I'm an active duty first time select. I was a SPC at the time of my selection and a CPL when I went. Now that I have been through the process, I can say a few things that I truly believe.

 

The warrant officer corps is looking for well rounded officers and pilots. If there is something that you lack, just make sure you offset it with something else. My APFT was low, but I had a college degree. My experience in the Army was low, but my civilian training was within the scope of aviation and possibly a little 'out there' (I'm an FAA licensed Airport Security Coordinator).

 

I did have a great LOR from a CW5 and a great one from my company commander. I'm pretty sure I did a good job impressing my CW5.

 

DO NOT WAIT until you're done with certain things in your packet before starting the next phase. I made that mistake. Everyone said my flight physical would take for ever to come back, so I kinda stopped actively pursuing anything once I took it with the thought of 'well if i'm not qualified then whats the point.' Well three days later when I got my stamp 2808, I was thoroughly surprised and at a dead stop.

 

As for the LOR, start looking now. No Warrant will write you one YET, not until your packet is complete, plus your LORs expire first, so get them last. I walked into the CAB career counselor and asked. He said "bring back your complete packet and I'll put you in touch with a CW4." I did that, he held up his end and that CW4 decided that my packet was good enough to send to the Brigade CW5. Start networking now.

[2ndGen]

What is your current MOS?

[egscharf]

1) Don't talk about "dropping a packet". Just do it. The one thing I've heard continuously throughout my career is "yeah man, I'm just gunna drop a packet", like it's an easy thing. It isn't. It takes time and you likely will hit some snags. Print out the packet checklist, keep it somewhere visible, and every single day look at it, prioritize, and get it done. It's easy to get caught up in your daily work life and forget about it.

2) Moral waivers are required if you check yes to being charged with any offense, or traffic fines in excess of $250. I would do one for anything on your enlistment application. You can find this in iPERMS.

3) I've never heard of NC-NS in a first board. And yeah I've often thought that a PFC being selected over a SSG was bogus, but then again the board is looking at potential and trainability, not experience and rank. I'd take a high speed PFC over a 15 year SSG any day. I'll be honest, as a SSG myself, many of my peers do not meet the standards.

4) Stop worrying about statistics and timelines, and just make a solid packet. Take your time. Polish your packet as best you can. Write your essay, rewrite your essay, send it to a few different leaders or WO's and have them review it, then rewrite it again.

5) I'll be honest, a 250 APFT for a SGT sucks. I won't even send a SPC to the board unless he has a 240. Focus on bettering your score, not dogging on other applicants scores.

Get a 300. It's the easiest thing you can do to better your packet.

[Flim]

No doubt, it is a process ! I've already hit snags myself, but you have to keep the pressure on.

[NCOtoWOplz]

While 250 isn't "awesome" then you start to fall into the thinking trap of "he scored a 300 let's promote him!" And then you have countless NCOs that are PT studs but suck overall.

 

My opinion has always been I'll take a soldier that scores a 200 and is squared away and knows there job vs a 300 S***bag. If they can do both then even better!

 

But maybe that's a difference in career field. I didn't need a outstanding PT score for my leaders to see my potential, but I know I need to raise the bar and lead by example and get a better score to be competitive with all the "300s"

[egscharf]

While 250 isn't "awesome" then you start to fall into the thinking trap of "he scored a 300 let's promote him!" And then you have countless NCOs that are PT studs but suck overall.

 

My opinion has always been I'll take a soldier that scores a 200 and is squared away and knows there job vs a 300 S***bag. If they can do both then even better!

 

But maybe that's a difference in career field. I didn't need a outstanding PT score for my leaders to see my potential, but I know I need to raise the bar and lead by example and get a better score to be competitive with all the "300s"

Stop being defensive dude. I didn't need a high PT score for my leaders to see my potential either. But I've always had one because I give a crap about my readiness.

If your APFT score sucks, raise it....or don't. It's your packet. Yeah, we all know PT studs who suck in every other category and still got promoted. Who cares? This doesn't negate the fact that you need a good score to be competitive. Or you could submit with a crappy score and explanation to the board that anyone who scored higher than you is lying. Stop insinuating that everyone is bullsh*&ing their scores just because you're not on that level. My packet had a 300 APFT. Because I lied and got someone to cosign my BS? No, because I cared enough to get my ass in the best condition possible and EARNED it. I also had a lot of other things going for me, and some against me. But I did EVERYTHING within my power to make my packet stand out because I wanted a shot at Aviation more than I've ever wanted anything in my life.

 

And there is no such thing as a squared away Soldier with a 200. The only guys who score 200's are guys who couldn't care less about physical readiness.

 

PT isn't everything, but like I said, it's the easiest thing you can do to better your chances of being selected. And you don't have to wait for a Company level APFT. Ask your 1SG, PSG's, or even S/L's if they can administer an APFT for you. Try to schedule it a month or so out and then backwards plan.

[Joe_P148]

You aren't trying out for SFAS guys... APFT is important but not the end all.

 

If you care to know NCO, my perspective of you is that you are being defensive about it. Don't let it bother you it's his opinion. No offense to any of the NCOs or selectees on the forums but the warrant officer corp outside of ft Rucker doesn't care about your pt score as long as you can hold your own and your not a fat ass, there's even plenty of those hanging around that are excellent pilots. It's important, but not the most important. It is however the one thing you can do to increase your chances of getting selected other than getting a 4 star LOR and I think that's what egshardf was getting at.

[NCOtoWOplz]

I understand, my reply probably came off as somewhat defensive but I was just trying to state my point that it seems like we all can agree on is PT doesn't make the soldier.

 

My hats off to everyone who can score a legit 300 but I was initially referring to the people who had great scores and then get to WOCS and are all of sudden failures or don't pass tape.

 

But I'm here for advice and I know you guys have some worthy knowledge already being selected so I'm sorry if I came off as a douche lol

[egscharf]

No PT doesn't make a Soldier, but it's one more thing that can help you get that Q-S.

Like you and others in here already said, be well rounded. On that note, if your COC lets you attend GT improvement, I'd go for it. 114 isn't bad, but most people don't really try too hard on their initial ASVAB so you can probably do even better I'm guessing. Just one more thing you can do to polish up your packet.

Also, check the thread entitled "SIFT is primed and ready to go". Lots of good SIFT advice. Study lots of math in addition to the FAA Rotorcraft Flying Handbook.

Start writing your USAREC 1935 now. You'd be amazed how hard it can be to quantify your entire career in just a couple small boxes.

Most of all man, just don't stop working on your packet because of whatever reason or hardship.

[cwil7280]

Egscharf is right, a good PT score will help. I am Air Force National Guard and just got selected as an E-4. My APFT was only 274 in my packet. Honestly, I agree that APFT is not what makes a soldier, however, you are not only going to be a soldier, but a Warrant Officer as well. The way I see it, I am going into a career of highly motivated and dedicated people. Military aviation has been a lifetime dream for many of the candidates who have been accepted, and there is no way an APFT score will stand between them and their dream. Even after being accepted with a 274, I did the math on how fast I need to run to get a 300 because I don't want to be left behind on a run in flight school or WOCS. (especially since I'm 22, that would be embarrassing.) I have no flight experience whatsoever, and only have an associates degree from a community college in general education. When I am competing against candidates with bachelors, even masters, AND flight hours, the last thing I will want is to be struggling with my PT as well. Max out everything in your control. Obviously you can't squeeze in 4 years of college by the next board, so do what you can to squeeze in the best APFT score possible. Study the book "ASVAB for Dummies" as well. It will help you if you retake the ASVAB and it will also help with the math portion of the SIFT. Awesome resource. The other book I studied was "Military Flight Aptitude Tests".

[Creep0321]

Question on the 1935. I am stuck on ship deployed right now and have started to fill this out. When it comes to military education, I have seen examples that list schools such as airborne, and other places it says not to list these schools. Since I am not Army, would I be better off putting all my schools? or just the PME? If anyone is willing to give advice on this topic, feel free to PM me and I will list all schools, and you can tell me to leave all of them off, or add them, or whatever. Thanks.

.....

Start writing your USAREC 1935 now. You'd be amazed how hard it can be to quantify your entire career in just a couple small boxes....

[NCOtoWOplz]

That was going to be my next question(s)...

 

1. Are any of the study guide's that are out there right now helpful when it applies to the SIFT such as:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Military-Flight-Aptitude-Tests-Dummies/dp/0470600322

 

or...

 

http://www.amazon.com/SIFT-Study-Guide-Practice-Questions/dp/0991316509/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0R0GQ62P3Z63G13BWAW0

 

Ive already downloaded the FAA handbook on PDF and plan to dedicate about 1hr a night reading through that whole thing.

 

I would say i am in a rush but not at the same time, I'm shooting for possibly July's board or if i cant get everything done by mid may i guess just shoot for the first board of the next fiscal year since 153A apparently isnt being boarded in september this year. I just need to stay vigilant and actively pursue finishing a well rounded packet in a timely manner

[Creep0321]

I had the military flight aptitude test for dummies book, studied that for a few hours, and read through the FAA rotocraft handbook once and passed. I dont see any reason with an hour a night and those two resources you couldnt pass the SIFT with flying colors.

[egscharf]

I had the military flight aptitude test for dummies book, studied that for a few hours, and read through the FAA rotocraft handbook once and passed. I dont see any reason with an hour a night and those two resources you couldnt pass the SIFT with flying colors.

I studied the FAA Handbook, the Naval Spatial Apperception Test, the AFOQT Hidden Figures test, some mechanical comprehension, and a bit of math for over a month. Scored a 63, not the best score ever, but I got selected.

 

Also regarding your 1935, if it isn't an Army school, I'd list everything you have. Just my opinion though.

[cwil7280]

1. Are any of the study guide's that are out there right now helpful when it applies to the SIFT such as:

This is the the study guide I used for the SIFT, although your two options also looked great, possibly even more up to date than this one:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Military-Flight-Aptitude-Tests/dp/0768936055/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392774932&sr=1-2&keywords=military+flight+aptitude+test

 

Since I have never flown an aircraft before, I thought it would be a good idea to read this book as well:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Helicopter-Handbook-Federal-Aviation-Administration/dp/162087492X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392775110&sr=1-1&keywords=helicopter+flying+handbook

 

Also, this book is amazing. Mine came with a CD full of timed practice tests that really let me know where I need to hone my skills, especially in the math section. This one is an online test rather than CD, but same concept. Probably more up to date as well.

 

http://www.amazon.com/ASVAB-For-Dummies-Premier-Education/dp/1118525531/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392775628&sr=8-2&keywords=asvab+3rd+edition+for+dummies

[ftxag76]

If any of y'all need some study materials Ive got some digital copies

 

 

 

On a different note, if any of y'all decide to invade Switzerland in your future world domination plans, make sure its during their not working hours

 

http://theaviationist.com/2014/02/18/ethiopian-air-def-response/

[NCOtoWOplz]

I talked with the Ed center today, made a little progress today in the start to a long journey and apparently the AFCT(?) only let's you keep your current ASVAB so let's say I had 114 and then scored a 105 I would be S.O.L and it seemed like they were urging me to keep what I have like it was pretty good so idk???

 

I would appreciate any digital copies, I already have the helicopter flying handbook on PDF, studying it as we speak lol