Needing some advice

[he_monkey]

Well, first a bit of history on me. I've been flying for years, I've taught for all of those and I've accumulated over 1500 hours and mountains of debt. I received many awards and kudos for my training and a 100% pass rate, but the left seat has deteriorated my flying skills. Now I'm traveling the country trying for 500 hour jobs and my flying simply isn't good enough to get a job. I'm a great interviewer, I have plenty of satisfied students and make friends easily, but I'm starting to break down and feel like I'm simply not good enough to get a job. I'm feeling pretty defeated and can't afford to rent an R44 and I'm worried I'm going to miss the hiring season because of this and remain unemployed for an entire year. I've never had an accident. Recently I drove 13 hours, slept in my car and put my life on hold for yet another job that I didn't get. I feel at a complete loss and not sure where my life and my career are going and don't know what to do.

[aeroscout]

As in all careers, having a plan "B" is prudent. In case your plan A doesn't work out like you want it to.

Could it be that if you put some more thought into a plan "B", you could come up with something.

Plan "B" doesn't need to compete with or interfere with plan A.

It could even be incidental to it.

[Whistlerpilot]

Keep on keeping on. You made the hardest part, instructing... and have 1500 hours. Way to go! The next step will happen, just don't give up. Be ready to go anywhere and you will...

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

Well, first a bit of history on me. I've been flying for years, I've taught for all of those and I've accumulated over 1500 hours and mountains of debt. I received many awards and kudos for my training and a 100% pass rate, but the left seat has deteriorated my flying skills. Now I'm traveling the country trying for 500 hour jobs and my flying simply isn't good enough to get a job. I'm a great interviewer, I have plenty of satisfied students and make friends easily, but I'm starting to break down and feel like I'm simply not good enough to get a job. I'm feeling pretty defeated and can't afford to rent an R44 and I'm worried I'm going to miss the hiring season because of this and remain unemployed for an entire year. I've never had an accident. Recently I drove 13 hours, slept in my car and put my life on hold for yet another job that I didn't get. I feel at a complete loss and not sure where my life and my career are going and don't know what to do.

 

What makes you say that your flying skills are unsatisfactory for employment? Are you still working as a flight instructor or has there been a significant time lapse in flying?

[he_monkey]

I stopped flight instruction for a long period (about 6 months) when my family moved and I haven't been flying. I know the best thing is to pay out of pocket and rent some time but it's hard to find the money meanwhile my skills aren't getting any better. The advantage of not getting the last 3 jobs I've gone to is that I'm getting a bit of flight time and kicking off the dust, but man do I feel cruddy not getting another job that I applied for and didn't get because of something I can't afford to fix right now.

[cburg]

I stopped flight instruction for a long period (about 6 months) when my family moved and I haven't been flying. I know the best thing is to pay out of pocket and rent some time but it's hard to find the money meanwhile my skills aren't getting any better. The advantage of not getting the last 3 jobs I've gone to is that I'm getting a bit of flight time and kicking off the dust, but man do I feel cruddy not getting another job that I applied for and didn't get because of something I can't afford to fix right now.

What did you instruct in? Where do you live?

[Wally]

I stopped flight instruction for a long period (about 6 months) when my family moved and I haven't been flying. I know the best thing is to pay out of pocket and rent some time but it's hard to find the money meanwhile my skills aren't getting any better. The advantage of not getting the last 3 jobs I've gone to is that I'm getting a bit of flight time and kicking off the dust, but man do I feel cruddy not getting another job that I applied for and didn't get because of something I can't afford to fix right now.

 

They can kill you but they can't eat you- that's against the law. It sucks being fired, been there, did that. Mistakes and mishaps are the most efficient teachers (pain makes immediate strong neurological connections) if you ain't dead- and nobody's making soup from your bones.

 

If you were teaching you, you the instructor would recognize that almost any mentally intact human being can fly a helicopter. I (you) would fly that student (you) at whatever was last done, best, make the "any idiot can mechanically fly a helicopter" message obvious, and gradually expand that horizon. You have to get back on that horse.

[pilot#476398]

I fly one hour every six weeks!

 

Two days before my last interview I did my BFR in the 44, yet I still f*cked up the interview flight! The previous year I hadn't flown a 44 in over six months (and only once at all in the past month) yet I passed the interview flight with flying colors!

 

So all I can say from my own experience with this is that, its all in your head. Just keep your eyes outside and let your subconcious take over and fly the way you know you can. Personally I feel being distracted is when I fly best, so try to think about anything other than flying.

 

My flying only sucks when I'm concentrating on flying.

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

I stopped flight instruction for a long period (about 6 months) when my family moved and I haven't been flying. I know the best thing is to pay out of pocket and rent some time but it's hard to find the money meanwhile my skills aren't getting any better. The advantage of not getting the last 3 jobs I've gone to is that I'm getting a bit of flight time and kicking off the dust, but man do I feel cruddy not getting another job that I applied for and didn't get because of something I can't afford to fix right now.

 

Without personally knowing you, it's hard to give any worthwhile advice. That being said, it sounds like you are psyching yourself out. Your performance will be less than spectacular anytime you're transitioning into a new type of helicopter. My first introduction to a turbine aircraft was an Astar350 BA model and I flew like sh*t. I looked like a rookie trying to pick it up, hover it and set it down. As I flew more and more, I became more and more comfortable w/ the aircraft. You eventually develop the muscle memory and everything works out fine.

 

While taking big breaks from flying puts you at a slight disadvantage, you are still a professional pilot. It's not like you just got out of flight school and haven't flown in a year. You have 1,500 hours of 'there I was' and 'oh sh*t' moments to draw upon. Certainly, there is still much for you to learn but you have more experience as an instructor than I think you're giving yourself credit for.

 

Finally, you're applying for tour jobs. As a Tour Pilot, I can say without a doubt that this is the easiest job in the industry. A well trained chimpanzee could do what I do. If you could succeed as a flight instructor, you can no doubt do this.

[rotornut67]

Go back to your very first student, and remember the mentality you had. YOU had to be THE MAN in that situation. You were a low time CFI to whom that student was looking to too keep from getting both of you killed! And you obviously succeeded.

 

Go to your next interview with that same mentality and fly the paint off that bird! Deep down you KNOW you can do it, and so do we.

 

Good luck

[SToL]

Spend a season doing tours in Alaska for any of the operators there, Temsco, Coastal, Era, etc... You exceed the time they require for new hires.

 

That will give you 135 experience, turbine experience and Alaska time which is looked on favorably by the majority of operators. This will help to open the door to your future career.

 

There are also several operators in AK who utilise R-44s if you want to start your 135 career that way.

 

Best of luck.

[cburg]

Spend a season doing tours in Alaska for any of the operators there, Temsco, Coastal, Era, etc... You exceed the time they require for new hires.

 

That will give you 135 experience, turbine experience and Alaska time which is looked on favorably by the majority of operators. This will help to open the door to your future career.

 

There are also several operators in AK who utilise R-44s if you want to start your 135 career that way.

 

Best of luck.

A friend called from there this morning, he's doing training and a checkride this week for a two-weeks on and two-weeks off schedule.

[heligirl03]

I used to do interview flights and training, and sometimes candidates hadn't flown in awhile. It's not the end of the end and although it's not ideal, if you are knowledgeable, teachable, and personable, it will happen for you eventually. Maybe spend some $$ for a real refresher flight in something you ARE comfortable in shortly before interview. A pre-employment flight in something you have no experience in isn't about raw stick skill, it's about everything else...all in your head. Keep at it, try a new angle, there's a "yes" out there waiting for you!

[he_monkey]

I don't know if I somehow come across as unteachable or what, I feel like I've got a friendly can-do and will-learn attitude.

I'll admit that I was let go by my flight school after being there for 2 years and I fell like I've been paying for it ever since. I've learned from my mistakes and I just need someone to give me a chance to prove myself.

 

The question regarding what I've flown and where I am is that I have 1500 hours almost all in the R22 and R44 and I'm on the East Coast but obviously willing to go wherever I can drive to an interview. I'm willing to even work at a flight school and I'm willing to take a job only requiring 300 hours.

 

I'm not above starting over and dedicating myself to a flight school and I certainly don't feel entitled to something better. I just need a job so I can prove that I'm not recognized by a previous mistake that I made in my career, which I worry may be happening.

[Wally]

Don't know you, hence I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. Anyhow- two thoughts:

 

As I said, being a 'run off (fired) mo fo' stings. You can't draw any conclusions from that singular fact in isolation. I was 'runned off' by a manager who bragged that he hated all pilots, except two (who secretly hated him). It meant nothing to anybody.

You can also be terminated for sound business reasons that could be hurtful, but shouldn't be. The stress builds, and sometimes it works against you. Every pilot has seen this, in little doses. For me, it shows in precise landings- the harder I work, the worse I do until I pull back, shake it off, and just fly it to the ground next time.

 

Finally, I think you might have some expectations at 1500 hours of significant change that are disappointing you by not materializing in a timely fashion. Those changes can happen, eventually, if you keep trying but won't happen if you quit. Only the last is guaranteed.

[cburg]

I used to work for a guy who used to say “I don’t get ulcers…I give em!”

 

“There…I said it and I’m glad” - my old boss

 

“stress…pass it on” - my old boss

 

“Nothing is too hard for the man who doesn’t have to do it” poster in my old boss’s office.

 

“When you’ve got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow” poster in another of my old bosses office.

[pilot#476398]

I just need someone to give me a chance to prove myself.

 

 

Welcome to the club.

 

Have you tried Helicopter Adventures? They just posted on JSfirm for 500 hour pilots to fly R44 tours in Myrtle Beach.

 

Air Photo Inc. also posted there looking for 700 hour pilots to fly photos in an R22.

[Nearly Retired]

Well...you did ask for it...

 

As others have said, none of us can give specific advice because we don't know you personally. But as a long-time pilot who's hired a pilot or two in my day, let me give you my thoughts:

 

1. From reading your words I see some red flags. Whether they are serious or not is open to question. But I always get wary when somebody tells me, "I'm a great interviewer." Oh yeah? Maybe not, son. Maybe there is "something" you're putting out that is sabotaging your best efforts. (And maybe that "something" is merely that you're trying too hard?)

 

2. If I call a 1500-hour pilot in for an interview, I assume that he can fly the helicopter. What I'm looking for is his/her general knowledge and overall attitude. Those of us who've been around a while can usually tell pretty quickly whether the applicant and his resume "match up." For instance, there are certain things a 1500-hour pilot "should" know. Usually...usually... the pre-employment checkride is a formality. By admitting that your flying skills have "deteriorated" makes me wonder if they were ever there in the first place. Of course you're going to be rusty - we understand that. But is it more than just rust that needs to be knocked off?

 

By this stage of the game (1500 hours and however many years you've been doing this) you should have figured out by now that this is a horrible industry that really doesn't care how much effort in terms of blood, sweat and tears you've put in to get even this far. The industry doesn't care how much you love to fly, or how much you really, really, really will be a good employee with so much to give to a company. Those are the minimum requirements. They are expected.

 

But! All is not lost. Every summer there is a friggin' fleet of helicopters contracted to dry cherries up in Washington State. In the "town" of Brewster there are two such operators: One uses the Sikorsky S-55 and one uses the S-58. I would call both of them up and shoot them a resume. I can almost guarantee that you'll be invited up for an interview/ride. But be warned! Not every pilot get hired. We're pretty good at weeding out the pretenders.

 

Or, and I hate to even suggest this, but perhaps you could take a lesson from the late, great Harry Chapin.

 

http://youtu.be/upZB5VlbC6o

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

I don't know if I somehow come across as unteachable or what, I feel like I've got a friendly can-do and will-learn attitude.

I'll admit that I was let go by my flight school after being there for 2 years and I fell like I've been paying for it ever since. I've learned from my mistakes and I just need someone to give me a chance to prove myself.

 

The question regarding what I've flown and where I am is that I have 1500 hours almost all in the R22 and R44 and I'm on the East Coast but obviously willing to go wherever I can drive to an interview. I'm willing to even work at a flight school and I'm willing to take a job only requiring 300 hours.

 

I'm not above starting over and dedicating myself to a flight school and I certainly don't feel entitled to something better. I just need a job so I can prove that I'm not recognized by a previous mistake that I made in my career, which I worry may be happening.

 

Contrary to what you originally posted, it sounds like the real problem is that you burned your old boss. No judgement from me; I don't know you or the story behind it all. I will say though that it is definitely in your best interest to make amends w/ your former employer (even if it doesn't lead to them taking you back). Everyone you hand your resume to is going to look into prior work history, and will certainly call your old Chief Pilot or Boss. If they're badmouthing you, your chances of succeeding are highly unlikely when there are dozens of other applicants with impeccable reviews from prior employers.

 

Fixing a damaged reputation is obviously much easier said then done. But a simple, sincere apology to your old boss could go a long way in improving your chances of being hired.

[he_monkey]

Perhaps I should try to reconcile with my old boss. It's the only thing that I haven't tried yet. However I never meant any negativity toward my boss or the school. I still recommend it to people who ask, I've stayed in contact with students and convinced a few to stay. I worked there for years without any problems or incidents (well except the one that led to my termination which I fully accept responsibility for. Nobody got me fired but me.)

I'm not a bad person. I hope my previous boss isn't blacklisting me. I certainly didn't do anything bad enough to have my entire career ruined. But I did make mistakes, and I've payed for those and I'll probably always strive to become a better person. Because of those mistakes, I've learned so much about myself. But I'm worried that I'll never get a chance to prove it.

 

As far as my interview skills are concerned, I've studied interview questions, techniques and public speaking to a high degree in order to put my best foot forward. I've received many compliments from managers about my interviews. They always seem very interested until I don't get the call about becoming a member of their team.

I would like to reiterate that the reason I was let go wasn't horrible, I didn't have an accident or incident, I didn't drive away business or sexually harass anyone I didn't do anything that would have harmed anybody or the companies reputation. Just so nobody thinks that I'm a really bad guy or something.

 

At the same time, my career may already be over if this is the case. I've applied everywhere that I'm qualified, and if all these companies that I've interviewed for now think of me as a poor candidate, without a new opportunity to prove myself, I'll never have anything else to add to my resume to give them a different idea than the one my first employer states about me.

[helipilotm]

As somebody who interviewed a decent amount of pilots I can give a few tips. My number one pet peve is when an applicant talks to much. Almost to the point of bragging. Now I get it, your nervous, trying to sell yourself etc. Tone down your experience if that makes sense. You have to realize how many resumes and applicants these companies see and talk to. Attitude is everything!

 

Even if your rusty, own your skills. Your not going to hide the fact your rusty but do the best you can while being confident. Don't get too beat down, it happens to everybody. I interviewed for 5 jobs before I got my first turbine job. I was extremely frustrated, and to the point of giving up. If you haven't make phone calls. Even if you sent a résumé awhile ago and didn't get anywhere keep trying. Show the company your interested. Good luck!

[Jaybee]

My number one pet peve is when an applicant talks to much.

 

All the jobs I got, the boss did all the talking (bosses like to talk...)

[Jaybee]

I just wanted to add (and like others I don't know you personally so take with a grain of salt) - I'm not a hiring authority but I've helped a few guys get jobs and at 40 years young, retired civilian mechanic, Air Force guy who's been selected(interviewed) for special duties and as a rotorcraft pilot began working the business with the ink still wet on my comm and 100 rotorcraft hours in the book I think I may have an idea what not to say and what to say (add in that I've gotten every job I've ever interviewed for).

 

So first of all don't do this - I post some pictures of the beautiful landscape I get to fly over once in a while. I appreciate the "that's cool, etc, etc" comments of Facebook but for the love of God don't follow that up with "where do you work". One click on my name and a quick look at my profile will tell you that. Same attitude goes for any where you apply - do your own homework. If you want my help, come well informed and based on my life experience that same truism works anywhere.

 

Secondly, shut up. Seriously. The less you talk the better. Bosses like to talk, let them. Answer questions directly and succinctly. If it takes more than a sentence you are talking too much.

 

Lastly, no BS. Most any meat servo can do the job, no reason to talk on and on about how good you are. What skills do you have that other meat servos don't have ? Are you a whiz with MS Excel ? Can you sell an ice cream cone to an Eskimo (important if you a Robbie tour pilot dealing with the general public)? Do have aircraft maintenance experience (even doing oil changes and spark plus is allowed per Part 43)?

 

Now is this the end all be all of advice ? No. Its worked very well for me however.

[BH206L3]

Well, so you got let go from a flight school with 1500 hours in you logbook. Maybe he just wanted to make room for another soon to be a CFI student. Been known to happen. Like Nearly Retired and I know him, he is a good guy, I been in this for a long long time. I will tell you right off I have never seen Aviation in the dumpster as bad as been and I was around in the late 1970's its worst. A lot of your problem is not new or you its just the lack of jobs and a lot of pilots chasing those jobs. We all go thru dry spells. I don't fly R-44's but there are a few guys in Alaska that look for pilots this time of year thou its getting late. Most every body has gotten there pilots nailed down by now. But keep looking something will turn up. I don't bad mouth anybody and I don't ever take anybodies word about another as gospel either. I also fly airplanes too-its the same sort of bs too. I hired a few pilots in my day and the quickest way for a prospect to get hired by me was to ask me my weight and were the W+B numbers for the aircraft are. Oh and the quickest way not to get hired is show up with out a pen to write with. How are you dressing when you go to interview if I might ask?

[Flying Pig]

I talked to an owner a few years back who was complaining about the "X-Games mentality" with new pilots. "Why does everyone feel the need to show up looking like an Olympic snowboarder?"