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I have been reading these threads for some time now, and I finally decided to register and post here... I have a friend, who I will not name that goes to one of the california locations.  I have been considering starting flight training, and asked him/her about his/her experience with silver state...

 

He/she tells me that in the five months he/she has been there, they have only had one working simulator and one to two working helicopters for about 100 students... and people are getting upset.

 

This person also said that they (silverstate) have drawn waaayyy more on the loan than would be appropriate for the training received up to this point... he/she said in the tens of thousands more... I will provide no more details as I wish for my friend to remain as anonymous as possible...

 

Mabye this is part of the "creative" financing thing being  discussed... ???

 

Obviously I will not likely be going to this school... even tho the have one close by Phoenix... I will probably go to Quantum or Guidance, both are schools I have heard good things about.  

 

Yeah I know how these forums work... and someone is going to call me a troll for this being my first post, I have been reading them for about a month now, but I just haven't felt like I had anything relevant to add to this forum until now...

 

Edit - this is just hearsay from someone I know who I am quite sure is a student at the aforementioned school... I can't verify anything he/she said to be true, but why would someone would make that kind of thing up?

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Do you honestly believe that anyone employed by SSH makes less than $10,000? Minimum wage allows for greater prosperity. Our Instuctors begin at $18 per hour and top out at $25 per hour. These CFI's average about 30 hours per week. The lowest man on the totem-pole, whom we are very grateful for, provides us with clean restrooms and empty trash cans. This individual earns significantly more than $10,000 annually.

AO3

 

When I went to the Sacramento SSH location in September, I was told that the instructors were averaging around 35 hours a month. At $18 per hour that comes to a whopping $7560.00 per year.

 

My reason for saying this is to not slam anyone. I am simply passing along the facts that I was given by SSH.

 

Doug

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ok guys I think that is enough information for me to stay away from SSH. Can anyone tell me of any good schools that are around Ontario, Ca.

Patch,

 

If Van Nuys is close enough, I can get you the name and number of a flight school located there. It is owned by the instructor that I flew with when I went to the Robinson safety course.

 

Doug

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When I went to the Sacramento SSH location in September, I was told that the instructors were averaging around 35 hours a month. At $18 per hour that comes to a whopping $7560.00 per year.

 

My reason for saying this is to not slam anyone. I am simply passing along the facts that I was given by SSH.

 

Doug

Doug

 

You also have to factor in the $8-$10 an hour the CFI will be getting on the ground. Even if they only fly 35 hours a month they have to be getting paid for their time on the ground.

 

So the question is how many Total hours does the average SSH CFI work. But honest guys these figures are not figures that have to be release to the public.

Though I am interested to hear them.

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All Jeep

 

When you refer to time on the ground, do you mean time teaching Ground School or is time paid sitting around waiting?

 

I had heard from other sources that teaching ground school is paid at the same rate as flying and with the same hours! Of course, this would make a long week at a busy school but it would be useful to know what new CFII's earn as a total.

 

 

Col

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You also have to factor in the $8-$10 an hour the CFI will be getting on the ground. Even if they only fly 35 hours a month they have to be getting paid for their time on the ground.

 

So the question is how many Total hours does the average SSH CFI work. But honest guys these figures are not figures that have to be release to the public.

Though I am interested to hear them.

AllJeep,

 

If you factor in 20 hours per week at $8 per hour, that only adds $8,320 to the annual salary for a total of $15,880.

 

As for your comment about releasing these figures to the public, the 35 hour per month figure was given to me by SSH with no manipulation on my part. I simply walked into their location in Sacramento and asked them some questions, which they happily answered. Plus, I feel that it is important that pilots within the industry know what salaries are being offered by which companies. When salaries, especially for entry level positions, become secret, all parties suffer.

 

Doug

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Col

I doubt that most schools pay the CFI the same rate for "Ground School" as they do for "Flight Time" considering ground only cost $25 an hour. But yes if the CFI is working a 9-5 and only flies 4 hours, those other hours are paid the ground rate which is an average of $8-10 an hour.

I have heard of some schools that only pay the CFI for flight time and have them everything from office work to cleaning the hanger. But that is the CFI job that I'd walk away from and leave for the other guy.

 

Doug

I don't disagree with you. I was just making a stating that this information does not have to be given to the public. The tone around here is insinuating that all figures must be out in the open if requested.

 

What is considered a small school? I think my school is a small school with 4 R22 and 3 CFI's. A CFI at my school can average 80 flight hours and up to 96 hours a month.

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oooohhhh man, nine pages pure mudslinging fun! I should know better, but this is a subject that gets allot of attention between time slots at my school and some occasional tidbits do come our way so here goes....

 

 

    many years ago when I was pushing snow on the gravy train to nowhere up beutifull big cottonwood canyon outside Salt lake City Utah i too had my interest piqued by Silver States Incessant radio adds (All night! as if all graveyard workers were losers badly in need of a career change?!) offering up the promise of jobs and wealth for all!  Anyway the big to -do was one of SSH's now famouse Seminars and the real enticer back then was a free chopper ride if you showed up! Flying had been on the back of my mind for years now so i was soooo there. The hanger was PACKED - Fancy turbines everywhere a bunch of Dudes were standing about in Super Corpo cut Silver State duds Answering Questions. soon, the owner came out (can you say well tanned millionare) and gave his schpeel  he'd made his Millions (and I mean Millions) in the Hydro - Electric industry, but got bored, bought a helicopter and fell in love with aviation, and then got the bright Idea he could really change the way the whole industry works for the better with his Hydro know how. He went on about what he'd learned about trianing from within from the ground up so he knew who is employees were and that that would cut out having to get old salts in line with how SSH would be run. Because he would be self insured he could take much lower time pilots and put em' to work on all the fun stuff. Apparently that also makes the Robbie TT hours a whole lot less as well. Anyway It did'nt take to long before I felt like I was at some sort of Corperate power point psycology motivational speeker/good car salesman seminars. I swallowed my pride and sat through the rest to get my Free Ride coupon, and went home to look up my other options as far as training. They did make good on the free ride (once around the pattern! and some fun hover menuevors) My pilot was very nice and answered allot of questions he and the other instructor were up from vegas with the R-22 and were returning in a week. Neither really new who would actually be running the school. both were recent CFI graduates from the vegas operation.

 

 

 That was my intro to Silver State I went on to start training in CA at Sierra Academy (I can personally testify that getting your loan in dispersments will save your ass when things go south for schools- another thread someday though) SSH was mentioned now and again, always with rumors of not enough choppers and months of ground school. I now train at HAI's concord operation and recent events have brought Silver state back on the front burner. Namely in the past 4-5 months they started operations in Sac, Los Banos, and now Oakland! thats 3 schools in a 70 mile radius.... a circle that already includes a well established operation and at least two smaller ones.... and they are scrambeling for CFI's. two good friends just took CFI II positions at the new Oakland operation - they were called in for interviews and hired in the span of a week and both start work soon. They were brought on at competetive pay rates by a guy they both agreed seemed well suited to the cheif instructor postion, who is also getting his DPE rating to become the in house guy for all three Norcal operations. I'm going to be interested to see how things go for those two at SSH. Both had no major complaints - the building is now SSH's and Helicopters were going to be forthcoming. (all SSH students spend 10 -20 hous intially in  a fly -it sim allong side the initial ground) so I'll be interested to see how things go for them.

 

 

   Those are just my outside observations. My opinion? I was not impressed with the Seminar i attended in SLC. It was to flashy and VERY corperate. now in retrospect I see just how many false promises were made - I need not repeat them- they are the same ones always listed. I also think it goes a little deaper then that. you can't be pushing the prospect of big dollars AND a Dream job to a bunch of people who are  (IF they stick with it) going to be shouldering a HUGE responcibility upon becoming the PIC of any Rotocraft. I went into this with some knowledge that it was not going to be a walk in the park, and that I would probably never get rich from doing it. But once i got on the controls I knew this was it and from then I wanted nothing more than to be the best Pilot I could be. If a guys simply looks at a helicopter as a way to make allot of money, then somewhere down the line he's gonna make a choice that he should'nt have. Fortunatly the nature of flying dictates that some attention be paid to these aspects in the course of training and those who thought of an easy buck will not stick around long and the rest will hopefully continue under the pretence that the money won't be great but still liveable and that the secret to success is constant diligence and a never ending learning process. I know the two guys that just started there know that and will pass it along. from a pure business aspect though,  you simply cannot make false promises like that and bring a bunch of people in, take there money have them quit cause you lied ( Or worse go through with it under false pretenses and be a bitter pilot who just scrapes through with the minumum) then have to give it back, even though you might have used it to say... open another school. Thats my two bits. I hope for ther sake of all the people that have started there, and made one of the biggest commitments of there lives, that it all works out. On the other hand I come from a long line of Real small biz owners and when (place mega corperation name here) opens up and takes over everybody loses. Happy trails!

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What is considered a small school? I think my school is a small school with 4 R22 and 3 CFI's. A CFI at my school can average 80 flight hours and up to 96 hours a month.

I would call that a small school and a helluva lot of flying. But, to me, that is the way that it should be. The CFI's get more money and the hours they need to get into a job that pays a living wage in a shorter time.

 

Doug

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I think there were some eirlier Questions about Silver States Financiall loan contract - got this little tidbit from one of our instructors yesterday - makes an interesting read....

 

   We had a young couple walk in to the school yesterday asking if they were required to sign a contract that required them to pay a 3 -4,000(!)  dollar breakaway fee if for any reason he were to decide it was not for him or was dissatisfied in any way. Of course everyone looked at him like he was from a different planet and asked where he'd heard that.

 

   From what I understand they had been out to Silver States Operation in Sac for the usual Demo ride and said it was intense sales pitch from the minute they walked in till the minute they left, The demo flight itself was straight and level, and that he never even got to touch the controls! on top of that it was more sales pitch banter from take-off to set down. as if that were'nt bad enough, he walks in after the flight and they already have a loan contract drawn up and want him to sign! fortunatly they had the smarts to go in another room and actually read it from top to bottom and thats when red flags started popping up and they decided to explore other options. Scary! I'd really like to see that contract. Another funny thing I know they used to do is make you call key bank, and go through the application process with them and if key says yes, you say well, I'll think on it, then you go back to Silver state and they'll give you their loan based on keys credit report.   Cheers ::potty::  A little bird told me!

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trust me, after going to #### and back with f@#$ing keybank to get the money for flight school there is no way you would ever say "i'll think about it". That company is evil, pure evil.

 

For the size of the SSH operation, you'd think there would be a few more 'vocal' students posting here. Surely they don't have to sign a nondisclosure agreement?

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I know that I just registered so please do not think that it means what I will post is false and I want you all to know that I am looking at attending training with this company. After reading all 9 pages I started to search. I found numerous stories in newspaper articles, etc that do not support half of the negative claims here. I did also see that there were some complaints filed with the BBB in Las Vegas. I also found 3 employees in a matter of a few hours and sent them an email in regards to their company. Some very pointed questions were asked by me I received the same in answers. Here is what 2 of the responses were:

 

Email response #1:

I am currently a teacher at Sliver State and I love my job and people I work with and for.

 

Some of the statements that you read are absolutely out of control and blown out of proportion.  They actually piss me off.  There is a lot of jealousy and hate out there, Silver State helicopters is making a lot of companies jealous because they have become so successful in such a short period of time. You can't believe everything you read!  "Moving trend of companies not hiring Silver State students because of their immoral practices or poor training." This statement really hits the heart.  I think that we provide the best training there is.  I provide the best training I can.  

 

    My advice to you is stop reading that bull #### and get to know Silver State before you judge.  Working in this field you take chances, this is one chance you will have to take.

 

2nd email response:

I do work there and am enjoying it a lot.  I teach IFR mostly in the R44.  There are good and bad things about anywhere you work (at least in my experience) but as far as flight schools are concerned, Silver State treats us well.  Lots of opportunity for commercial work too.

 

 

I know this may open up another can of worms or dispel some fears. I feel more comfortable in my possible future with them. I have an interview with them in a couple of hours. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Michael

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My favorite SSH article of all time:

 

Sunday, February 02, 2003

Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

 

NEVADAN AT WORK: JERRY AIROLA -- Owner and president of Silver State Helicopters

 

 

Answer: They start at about $350,000, for a small one. We've got six Sikorsky S-92s on order, and they're $15 million each. The first one won't be here until March 2004. It's the ultimate passenger helicopter. They carry 19 passengers, and we're going to do taxi service to Southern California and Phoenix and Northern California. We've also ordered four S-76s for short tours. They hold nine passengers.>>

 

Whole article:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho....68.html

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  • 1 month later...
Started school at silver state a month ago. Yah!!!, now the 3 past week ive had my nose stuck in a POH or FARAIM or 3 other books, just to keep up my 90% quiz scores (89% = retake),,,,,,,so ive heard all the glory about silver state i was just cerious if they have any skelitons they havent told me about,,,,maybe you might know about?
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Only a couple of things I truely dislike about Silverstate.

 

1. They hype up flying like your going to be making hundreds of thousands of dollar each year. In reality entry level jobs are going to pay anywhere from 15/18 an hour. (Silverstates personal payscale).

 

2. Takes forever to get your training done. 18 months is a rediculous amount of time for a serious student. Flying once a week makes it very difficult for the student to retain and improve on post flight critiquing if you dont get to apply it for another week.

 

3. They only factor in 175 hours in your training costs. You need to get 25 more hours per SFAR73 to teach. To get these hours it will require that you:

A) Pay for it

B) Pray for this free flight time people have said comes around with ferrying helicopters from location to location. But look how many students they have. Do you think everyone will get that "free" flight time. If your not that lucky see part A.

 

4. With the money your spending your not getting an instrument instructor ticket. You could go to other schools and get this at about the same price in 2/3 less time spent in school if you want to go full time.

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Azpilot,

 

Just wanted to respond to what you wrote with my personal experience.

 

I am a current student at SSH out in Chino, CA. I have been a student since June and i'm in Commercial Ground School right now (which is really like CFI school actually). Anyway, from what I know - from my SSH CFI's - they start at $15/hour I believe to teach in the sim, $18 when in the helicopter.

 

My experience with SSH right now is great. I have a good CFI and a great CFI. Each of them teach well and I'm sure I'm on my way to becoming a great and safe pilot. As for the time frame that it takes for students to finish, I bet you that it will be getting less and less in length very soon. I have been watching SSH expand OUTWARD rather than UPWARD - and I actually wish they did it the other way around. What I mean is that they are taking the Robinsons that they are buying and distributing them amongst tons of new opening locations. Unfortunately, that means that the acquisition of new R22's isn't as fast at each location as the students would like. But, what it DOES mean is that when I am done, there will be more locations hungry for CFIs which means WORK! I'm actually getting my loggable instrument sim hours out of the way right now - 4 hours per week. And, flying twice per week at roughly 1.1 hours per flight. I bet you that I'll be done quicker than 18 mos. but if it takes that long I"m ok with it. Afterall, we aren't all blessed enough to have a sugar mama or parents to support us while we go to SSH full time. Most of us work a full time job and for any healthy rate of learning to take place, 18 months is a pretty good pace. I hope though that if you are at SSH that you are finding your experience to be as great as mine or if you're elsewhere that you have a safe and fun career.

 

Peace,

 

Kyler ::rotorhead::

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Someone who frequents this forum (not I) took the post from the above silverstate student and placed it on the www.justhelicopters.com and this was a reply I thought would be worthwhile to move back over here.

POSTED BY JOHNL

"...when I am done, there will be more locations hungry for CFIs which means WORK!"

 

But what happens to the current CFIs who are teaching this guy and the other current trainees? The flaw in SSH's business plan appears to be that it relies on a never ending supply of new students. That is, after blowing into a new town and soaking up all the interested participants will there be another group, eighteen or so months later, of sufficient size to provide employment for the new CFIs and their trainers (especially in a market like Butte, MT)? It seems that the company needs an exponential increase in students to make its business work.

 

If student enrollments do not maintain this kind of growth might SSH run out of resources before it can provide 18 months of training for the next (or maybe even the current) group of students. If most students are taking 18 months to complete the program then a significant portion of the fixed amount they pay for 175 hours of flight training is going to cover the company's overhead.

 

And is SSH living mostly on the student loan money advanced to it (it appears that it is because the company has no other significant operations)? Is SSH spending those loan advances to build other parts of the business? If so, don't they run the risk of running out of resources if new student enrollments decline, students take longer to complete the program and/or new business operations do not generate sufficient revenues fast enough?

 

Certainly a prospective student should consider that if the company does run into financial straights, is the student still on the hook to the bank for the money advanced to the company?

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In my opinion, it is obvious that SSH is feasting on the supply of people wanting to become helicopter pilots and is making a great deal on that. But, being in personal contact with employees at Silver State gives one a heads up on what the company is really up to - not just what people on the outside are speculating.

 

Locations such as Washington state, Butte, MT and the locations on the southern portions of Southwest states are actually intended to be used for operations with border patrol which is just one of the huge jobs that SSH is going to be working on. Honestly, I can tell you that there really is a need for many pilots at least in this company. They have more work than they know what to do with and I can see the managers sweating over hiring qualified pilots.

 

Anyhoo... thats what I know.

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  • 2 months later...

I attended the recent seminar in Washington State.  I'm a fixed wing pilot with just over 500 hours.  I held a CFI cert. about 6 years ago.  I got out of aviation because of the lack of jobs (I couldn't support myself on $150 a week my CFI job avg'd)  I wanted out (temporarily) and joined the Navy to have a "backup" plan with a technical career which has proved good.  I make good money now and fly for fun.  I was intrigued by the helicopter ads on the radio and always wanted to fly rotocraft.  I was skeptical at first and initially thought it was a flight school promising the same line that has been used in the industry since I started flying in 1989.  "The aviation industry is having a pilot shortage, learn to fly now!", B.S.  So I went to check it out.  Sure enough, this is what it appeared to be.  But I decided to stick around since I was in the area anyway (I was working in Bellingham that day and live in Federal Way, which is about an hour away).  At first all my aviation defenses were up, but as we were standing around waiting for Jerry to speak some of the CFI's and managers were answering questions.  One question arose: How much do the CFI's make after they get hired?  I heard "Oh, I think our lowest paid guys are at the $52,000 mark right now.  I thought to myself...does he mean they start at $52,000 on salary?  I continued to listen around the bustling crowd for more info.  By that time, Jerry finally got on stage and told about his water purification plant he owned and sold and started flying helicopters story.  When he got to the part about financing, he told us it would be about $55,000.  To pay this back, if you made it thru the program and were (most likely, because they pretty much hire 94% of the students) offered a job as a CFI you'd be making....well, $52,000.  The lowest paid CFI they had.  Again, this gave me the impression they start you at $52,000 a year SALARY.  He compared the price of the loan by quickly saying: "well, you'll be making $1000 a week minus $125 for the loan payback and you still have $875 for yourself".  This diminished any thoughts of my negative aviation promises I've had in the past.  Hmmm...wow, this is cool.  The company seems to know what it's doing.  My only receeding thoughts I had in the back of my mind was:

 

1) How could they hire 70 some CFI's.  I understand the CURRENT CFI's will have business.  But who am _I_ going to teach?  How could the comapny stay in business if all the CFI's were paid a salary of $52,000?

 

2)  Looking at their website it shows about 30 open positions compay wide for CFI's.  11 of those in Washington.

 

3) Something wasn't adding up.  The flight training seemed pretty aggressive even by my standards.  I've been thru the fixed wing course at Auburn Academy from pvt to CFI.  It took a lot longer then the 12 mos they were saying.  (9 if you were unusually quick.)  My instrument alone took about 6 mos.  I understand fixed and rotor are obviously different but the concepts are the same.

 

4) I saw a similar addon course at Boeing helicopters for about $12,000 (didn't include turbine or ext lift) and my GI bill would knock it down to about $5000 for my cost.  $50,000?   Hmmm....maybe SSH would credit me somehow for my past experience.

 

So, I don't know what to think now.  My big question is:  Once you get hired, how much do the CFI's really make?  $50,000?? (I would be giving up a similiar paying job for this)  I don't want a suprise of only making $30,000 a year (or most likely less) and expecting to payback a $50,000 school loan.

 

Looks like Jerry may have got me all fired up again and prayed on my love and dream of flying.  

 

As I was walking thru the parking lot to leave, there was a guy on the phone telling someone: "I don't see how anyone WOULDN'T do this!"  I think Jerry got him too.

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