What did you track, and why?

akscott60 · June 16, 2014

And would you do it again if you had to choose?

Velocity173 · June 16, 2014

IP. Get to pass knowledge on to others. Flew Mon-Fri almost the entire time I was an IP (not always a good thing). Was able to go to Rucker and have some stability for four years (not always a good thing either). Think the IP/IE route makes you more employable over other tracks in the civ world.

Without a doubt I'd do it again. Only thing I would've changed is I would have put in for FW when I had the chance. I was so set on getting out at 20 that I wasn't going to deal with the ADSO. Still, would've been nice to transition to something different.

Diesel5187 · June 16, 2014

IP. Get to pass knowledge on to others. Flew Mon-Fri almost the entire time I was an IP (not always a good thing). Was able to go to Rucker and have some stability for four years (not always a good thing either). Think the IP/IE route makes you more employable over other tracks in the civ world.

Without a doubt I'd do it again. Only thing I would've changed is I would have put in for FW when I had the chance. I was so set on getting out at 20 that I wasn't going to deal with the ADSO. Still, would've been nice to transition to something different.

What is "IE", "FW", and "ADSO"?

Thank you.

Rob Lyman · June 16, 2014

I originally tracked MTP. It is what was available at the time, and I had done FCP in the Navy. Also, IP jobs are VERY political in the guard so even though I had also done IP in the Navy, IP in the Army wasn't going to be an option until there was a need and I had proven myself.

After getting a full time MTP position at the facility, they decided I would get the next IP slot available so that I could get my ME status. A shortfall came open, but we did not have another qualified MTP to fill in while I was gone, so we had to let it go. While waiting for another IP slot I decided to study on my own. I took an FOI test from a DES designee and took my ME ride from the same guy while on deployment in 2011.

When another shortfall for the IPC at WAATS came up last year. I jumped on it. So now I am tracked MTP/ME/IP. I am on the list for the next IE course, but I am not in a hurry to attend.

BTW, having a civilian CFI made the FOI test a slam dunk.

I am not strongly interested in the Army FW course. With a civilian MEI the only thing the FW course would add is a C-12 qual and some more multi-engine time...maybe. I MUCH prefer flying helicopters.

IE - Instrument examiner

FW - Fixed wing

ADSO - Additional Duty Service Obligation

ME - Maintenance Examiner

FOI - Fundamentals of instruction

CFI - Certified flight instructor

MEI - Multi-engine instructor

Edited June 16, 2014 by Rob Lyman

Velocity173 · June 16, 2014

What is "IE", "FW", and "ADSO"?

Thank you.

IE-instrument examiner. Basically an instructor who teaches instrument procedures. What we refer to as a "water walker." Lol!

FW- Fixed wing. A transition to C-12s, C-35s, C-23s, RC-7. F27, DHC-6, PC-6. Probably a few others I forgot about.

ADSO- Active Duty Service Obligation. It adds to your time in service so you're not attending some expensive course (FW) and then getting out right after that wasting DOD money. FW is a 5 yr ADSO. By the time I wanted to go FW it would have taken me past 20 yrs. I wasn't about to do one more day past 20. Plus, I've been approved for flight school on my GI Bill to get my ME FW anyway.

CharyouTree · June 16, 2014

TACOPS/AMSO (Aviation Mission Survivability Officer): Because that's the slot they put me in...

IP: Because I wanted it, and took a Guard tour at Rucker to get it. I wanted the CFII for the civilian side, the hours available, and more job opportunities as a technician (GS-13 at a Guard flight facility). Unfortunately, I went back home early to go on a deployment with my unit, who decided not to have me continue being an IP.

I prefer being an IP. I'm not a fan of the lack of legitimacy that Tacops has had with the command, in my experience. I have (had, I left that unit) become the "planner" or "why isn't the printer working??" guy, etc, and I wasn't a fan.

On the other hand, Tacops did get me in a W3 slot, and promoted a year early, so...

Joe_P148 · June 16, 2014

TACOPS can be legitimate when implemented properly.

Unfortunately, the community has a bad reputation.

akscott60 · June 16, 2014

TACOPS is sh*t on mostly, and became the "Hey, the AMPS computer is f*cked up! Fix it!" job. Which is not fair. I spent two months in the Squadron TACOPS office. The job can be fairly interesting...

brackac · June 17, 2014

Safety. Job sucks while in the military but it opens multiple doors in the civilian sector. Every race team has a safety officer, every race team has a helicopter, and almost all of them have a twin engine fixed wing platform for short flights. I'm talking Nascar, F1, etc etc etc. I can provide multiple functions.

Rob Lyman · June 17, 2014

TACOPS is sh*t on mostly, and became the "Hey, the AMPS computer is f*cked up! Fix it!" job. Which is not fair. I spent two months in the Squadron TACOPS office. The job can be fairly interesting...

As opposed to the "Hey, the aircraft is f*cked up! Fix it!" job?

CharyouTree · June 17, 2014

As opposed to the "Hey, the aircraft is f*cked up! Fix it!" job?

More like "Hey, the plumbing in the men's room is f*cked up! Fix it!"

I can generally handle the Miltope issues (though they're making that harder and harder now, as they lock down the OS more. Thanks, Chelsea Manning). It's the other "tech" jobs, that you can't do anything with, for one reason or another.

"The Internet's not working" Well, it's not confined to that computer, I can't do anything for you. "Fix it!"

"The printer in the IP office isn't working" Well, that's a DOIM computer, I can't do anything for you. "Fix it!"

People that don't understand certain elements of technology don't understand WHY you can't fix something that's similar to something else you can. No amount of explanation will bring them to understand the limits, and at best, you're left with explaining that you can't fix THAT issue, every time they come to you with something.

Joe_P148 · June 18, 2014

Rob,

It's the fact that TACOPS rarely has a seat at the big boys table. Before the new commanders guide came out, people were getting the TACOPS and safety course with PC waivers. This is unacceptable and roped a lot of poor aviators who were tracking to get promoted as opposed to tracking in order to better themselves and support the command, the company and the mission.

TACOPS and Safety for a guy trying to eventually be an IP or get flight hours, is kinda a death sentence. Do I know dual tracked guys? Sure, even triple and quad tracked guys. They are the exception though.

At least as an MTP you have a seat at the table, the command listens to you and your job, significantly impacts the readiness of the company wether in peacetime or combat.

TACOPS is irrelevant when most of their job responsibilities are covered by S2 or brushed off as not important. The whole AMPS portion of the job is only 1/3 of it.

d10 · June 18, 2014

I tracked nothing. When I was a PI ready (IMO) to move on to PC, my company was dragging their feet with the process of PC boarding/checkrides. They offered me TACOPS because I was good with an AMPS computer. I said "Let me get this straight, you don't trust me to manage a helicopter on a routine mission, but you trust me to be the subject matter expert on the tactical environment and make recommendations to the commander about how we should fly given that expertise?" In reality I knew they just wanted me to be the AMPS bitch and take care of the TACOPS work on the upcoming ARMS inspection. Either the TACOPS position as a whole was a joke or my company had no respect for it, and I felt like tracking in general before you're allowed a good 1-2 years as an untracked PC is bad for your development as an aviator, so I declined the position. It also didn't help that they tried to strongarm me into the position by further delaying the PC process and implying that I could get it back on track by accepting TACOPS. I don't respond to those kinds of tactics by giving in. My career wasn't a consideration at that point because selection rates to W3 were around 99% and I assumed they would stay that way for a few more years. I even saw a guy make W4 without ever tracking.

Eventually I made PC, felt ready to take an impactful track like IP or MTP, and moved to a company that I had a bit more respect for. I was nearing my W3 board by then but I still believed selection rates would be good. I wanted to hold out for an IP slot. I would have been happy with MTP towards the end of my career, but my company didn't utilize MTPs as primary mission pilots in Afghanistan and I wasn't going to give that up so early. Unfortunately there were no IP slots open at my unit and I didn't want to PCS to Rucker where I may or may not even end up on the flight line, so I went to my W3 board untracked. That was the first year selection rates really plummeted and I didn't make it. Branch wouldn't approve track producing schools for guys who may or may not still be around next year so that was effectively the end of my career.

If I could do it again I'd do it the same.

SBuzzkill · June 18, 2014

We have guys taking tracks purely to take one. I was offered and turned down TACOPs because it has no relevance to my career goals.

Edited June 18, 2014 by SBuzzkill

Joe_P148 · June 18, 2014

I tracked nothing. When I was a PI ready (IMO) to move on to PC, my company was dragging their feet with the process of PC boarding/checkrides. They offered me TACOPS because I was good with an AMPS computer. I said "Let me get this straight, you don't trust me to manage a helicopter on a routine mission, but you trust me to be the subject matter expert on the tactical environment and make recommendations to the commander about how we should fly given that expertise?" In reality I knew they just wanted me to be the AMPS bitch and take care of the TACOPS work on the upcoming ARMS inspection. Either the TACOPS position as a whole was a joke or my company had no respect for it, and I felt like tracking in general before you're allowed a good 1-2 years as an untracked PC is bad for your development as an aviator, so I declined the position. It also didn't help that they tried to strongarm me into the position by further delaying the PC process and implying that I could get it back on track by accepting TACOPS. I don't respond to those kinds of tactics by giving in. My career wasn't a consideration at that point because selection rates to W3 were around 99% and I assumed they would stay that way for a few more years. I even saw a guy make W4 without ever tracking.

Eventually I made PC, felt ready to take an impactful track like IP or MTP, and moved to a company that I had a bit more respect for. I was nearing my W3 board by then but I still believed selection rates would be good. I wanted to hold out for an IP slot. I would have been happy with MTP towards the end of my career, but my company didn't utilize MTPs as primary mission pilots in Afghanistan and I wasn't going to give that up so early. Unfortunately there were no IP slots open at my unit and I didn't want to PCS to Rucker where I may or may not even end up on the flight line, so I went to my W3 board untracked. That was the first year selection rates really plummeted and I didn't make it. Branch wouldn't approve track producing schools for guys who may or may not still be around next year so that was effectively the end of my career.

If I could do it again I'd do it the same.

.

So what are you doing now? How many hours did you end up getting out with?