WOCS Senior TAC Essay

[USAR153D]

Neither the WOC SOP or the WOCC website outline the details. If there are any WO1's here who attended either this or the last FY and still have theirs, please PM me.

 

My class is trying to get ahead of the game.

 

V/r,

 

P

[Cantankerously]

Are you in the 5 week or 7 week class?

[Lindsey]

He's in the 7 week and I already told him not to worry about it, but sometimes he isn't a very good listener.

[USAR153D]

He's in the 7 week and I already told him not to worry about it, but sometimes he isn't a very good listener.

Must I screen shot that text message suggesting I inquire on here?

 

PS: I acquired the info requested. Thank you all for your time.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Marine4WOFT

[madcityjets]

Neither the WOC SOP or the WOCC website outline the details. If there are any WO1's here who attended either this or the last FY and still have theirs, please PM me.

 

My class is trying to get ahead of the game.

 

V/r,

 

P

Just write a simple one page essay on your own, it's supposed to be about you not copied. There is nothing difficult about what you're about to go through

[Cantankerously]

don't write it before hand. Write it at WOCS when you are assigned to write it.

[nightmare515]

I see so many people who try to get ahead of the game when it comes to flight school in general. I get it, everyone wants a leg up or to get a head start. But plenty of members have said this before and I will say it again.

 

Here is the best way to get ready for WOCS:

 

Head to Rucker early, go to Panama City Beach or Destin. Rent a hotel, and relax. It's winter time now so no beach for you, so go grab a hotel for cheap (its offseason) grab a few beers and watch TV with your feet up.

 

BCT, WOCS, Flight school etc are all designed for you to arrive there knowing absolutely nothing at all and having done no prep work. They are schools designed to TEACH you what you need to know. If they expected you to know the WOCSOP before you got there then they would send you one once you were selected and tell you to read it before arriving.

 

You have plenty of time to get your stencils made, stencil your stuff, learn the WOCSOP, etc. If you know NOTHING about the Army at all when you arrive at Basic then you will learn everything you need to know when you get there. Don't go start trying to read field manuals and battle drills before you arrive it's a waste of time and energy.

 

I even met a guy who was systematically starving himself on purpose to "prepare for SERE".

 

Relax guys you will be fine. I guarantee you that if you spend all of your time trying to prepare for these courses before you get there then you will be kicking yourself for wasting your time when you arrive and realize you could have been watching the ball game instead because you actually have time to learn what you need to know when you arrive.

 

Just make sure you are in decent shape when you arrive so you don't start dying on the runs they do (if you get a class that likes to run a lot, some do some don't).

 

Don't start cramming 5 and 9's, don't hunt the internet for a WOCSOP, don't ask people to help you write your letter, don't go to Home Depot and try to get stencils made, and for the love of God don't start starving yourself thinking it will give you a leg up at SERE (that was the most ridiculous one I heard).

 

Enjoy your freedom while you can and relax. I 100% promise you that you WILL NOT be the dumbest person there when you arrive. You will certainly meet some people there who you will wonder how the hell they even passed middle school let alone made it to WOCS.

[Yamer]

Best advice I've heard in a while on here...

[cwil7280]

Nightmare is right. WOCS isn't bad at all, and you are given more than enough time to do all your essays. Even if you write it now, it will probably be written wrong and you'll have to re-format it anyway. The best advice I can give is to not let stupid stuff get you in trouble. Keep your PSA locked, make sure you salute every TAC, and show up to PT with a FULL camelback and you'll be good. Stay off probation, the late night memos are the killer... Trust me..

[nightmare515]

Im going to go ahead and be brutally honest here but WOCS is a course designed for new members of the Army and lower enlisted. There shouldn't be a 5 week WOCS course in its current form for prior NCOs. It should be a gentleman's course for the 5 week people and the 7 week course should stay the same. I'm pretty sure every prior NCO who went through WOCS writes that on the critique. Even when speaking to the TAC officers after graduating they mostly said the same thing.

 

Military schools are supposed to teach you something. WOCS doesn't teach a prior NCO anything they don't already know about military leadership. We know how to write memo's, we know how to lead Soldiers we don't have to play pretend "Candidate Platoon Sergeant" roles we were mostly real Platoon Sergeants before getting there. We don't need to learn how to do an FTX every single person in the 5 week class had at least one deployment under their belt.

 

The only interesting part about WOCS was taking the history classes (that I already took because I went to college). All of which is information that can be gained by giving us a schedule and telling us to show up to class on time like college.

 

I've taken a lot of schools in my career and I have never honestly come out of a school having literally learned nothing new. To this day the only thing I have learned from WOCS was how to fold my t shirts into nice little squares. Thats literally it.

 

I feel as though WOCS has become more of a right of passage rather than an actual teaching school. I believe it has fallen victim to the whole "well we had to go through it so everybody should go through it".

 

It's called the Warrant Officer Career College. It should operate like a college for prior NCOs and they can keep the basic training style setting for new Soldiers.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Yamer]

I went through the 7 week course as a prior e3 with less than two years in and it still felt like a gentlemans course and didn't teach much.

[electron_si]

I went through the 7 week course as a prior e3 with less than two years in and it still felt like a gentlemans course and didn't teach much.

 

 

I'm fairly certain you haven't been to a gentlemen's course then, because I went to the 5 week course and it was nothing like a gentlemen's course. Earning "caffeine rights" and having to sing songs and wear hats matching shoe laces, while having 10 minutes to shower and change after PT is nothing close to a gentlemen's course.

 

That being said, I found WLC to have more freedom than WOCS.

[nightmare515]

I believe there is some confusion of what a gentlemans course is. A gentleman's course is one where you are treated like a normal person without the basic training style regiment of a place like BCT or WOCS. Like a college course so to speak.

 

There are plenty of courses like that in the Army. IERW itself could be considered a gentleman's course. Show up to class at this time, show up to the flight line at this time, and go home.

 

That's the difference. WOCS is nothing at all like a gentleman's course. I believe WOCS is purely a right of passage for NCO's who are taught to "humble" themselves from being a Platoon Sgt, Squad Leader, Section Sgt, 1st Sgt etc, to a WOJ at the bottom of the barrel again.

 

Nothing in the course was even remotely hard. The most difficult thing by a long shot was holding your tongue because of how ridiculous most of the activities are. What got guys in trouble the most in my class was the fact that some people just couldn't accept being treated like that. The majority of our write ups didn't come from mistakes made it came from guys literally telling the TAC Officers exactly how they felt about them and the course.

 

It's hard to go from being a Senior NCO to being treated like a child especially when you likely have more time in service than the people who are yelling at you.

[goodfx]

 

 

I'm fairly certain you haven't been to a gentlemen's course then, because I went to the 5 week course and it was nothing like a gentlemen's course. Earning "caffeine rights" and having to sing songs and wear hats matching shoe laces, while having 10 minutes to shower and change after PT is nothing close to a gentlemen's course.

 

That being said, I found WLC to have more freedom than WOCS.

Totally agree. I still call it Silly School, as it was the dumbest school I've ever been to. The academics had some value, but only a complete moron would have trouble passing tests. The instructors did everything but stomp their feet when a review question was to appear on an exam. This really didn't aid all that much in overall comprehension.

 

We could have spent much more time studying our individual branches and relevant information, but instead we spent our free time writing essays for not locking PSA doors while studying at our desks, not routing our shoelaces properly, etc., and filling out 3x5 cards with asinine data.

 

WOCS exists much as WLC does: As one of the last authorized forms of hazing in the Army, i.e. "We all had to do it, so subsequent attendees should have to go through that crap too!".

 

That said, I feel that it should be mandatory in it's current state for all street to seaters/prior E4 and below;) Haha

 

For all you guys tripping out about being uber prepped: I say that if it keeps you stoked, go for it, but understand that so long as you show up ready to be diligent and keep your ego in check, you'll be absolutely fine with zero preparation. Anyone who fails WOCS has no business being an Officer, much less an Aviator.

[Lindsey]

So WOCS teaches nothing, is stupid, full of "hazing," and is a rite of passage school...but yet all street-to-seaters should still have to go through it? That makes total sense. You know, since we didn't just come from Basic Training where that's all that occurs. What is the benefit to the street-to-seaters then, by your arguments? It's funny; in our WOCS class the few people who struggled were prior service and they were discipline issues. Interesting.

[nightmare515]

So WOCS teaches nothing, is stupid, full of "hazing," and is a rite of passage school...but yet all street-to-seaters should still have to go through it? That makes total sense. You know, since we didn't just come from Basic Training where that's all that occurs. What is the benefit to the street-to-seaters then, by your arguments? It's funny; in our WOCS class the few people who struggled were prior service and they were discipline issues. Interesting.

 

WOCS can actually teach newcomers something. Many street to seat folks don't know how to write memo's or manage time in such a manner. It can also further reinforce the discipline required in the military. BCT teaches the bare minimum skills required to survive in the Army. Leadership and other such skills are acquired by actually being in the Army for awhile.

 

As you said, the few people who struggled in your class were prior service folks who had discipline issues. As a new Soldier you don't really yet know what's "stupid" and what is "stupid but necessary". A lot of things in the military seem stupid but are actually necessary. As you gain more experience in the military you will better be able to tell which is which.

 

Those prior service folks got in trouble for discipline likely because they have been in the military before and they believe that the course is pointless to them. It's hard to "play the game" when you aren't actually learning anything.

 

It would be like taking a rated rotary wing aviator with 2000 hours of flight time and making them go through IERW to "learn" how to fly. They would be unmotivated and annoyed at having to sit through months of classes on aviation and "learn" how to hover again when they already know how to fly as well as the instructors who are trying to "teach" them. For someone who has never touched a helo before IERW is necessary, for someone who knows how to fly already IERW is pointless. That same logic can be applied to WOCS when talking about Senior NCO's going through it.

[UH60L-IP]

Looking back, there were a lot of silly things at WOC school. Like others, I liked the history and a few other things. In other areas, it was an exercise in humility. At the same time, if you can't hold your tongue for a few short weeks in a not very difficult course, you probably shouldn't be a warrant officer. You're pretty much learning the main job of a WO1. To hold your tongue because nobody is listening to you anyway.

 

And I was a rated aviator when I went through flight school. In fact, a helicopter CFII with more than enough hours to qualify for the job at Rucker. I didn't think it was pointless. Honing your skills under the watch of another instructor, even if it's one with just the same qualifications as yourself (and sometimes less), is worthwhile. I learn a lot from the other instructors in my flight right here as I teach new UH-60 students. The fact that I have the same ratings doesn't mean I am done learning from them.

 

I don't know what my whole point is other than to say this. So what? WOC school is easy, or hard, or an exercise in humility, or pointless, or just a right of passage. Do your best, chalk it up to another experience, and when you are in a position to do so, make it better if you feel that strongly about it. Like so many things, what you get out of it depends largely upon what you put into it.

[USCav19D]

If it's as easy as everyone says, then why not just sit back shut up and color?

 

I can't speak for everyone, but the cavalry had me doing stupid sh*t on a daily basis. I'd think the Army on whole would be the same.

[nightmare515]

You're pretty much learning the main job of a WO1. To hold your tongue because nobody is listening to you anyway.

 

 

This is a BIG one. Depending on what type of unit you go to as a WO1 you will experience different things. Some units are great and don't play the whole "new guy gets treated like trash" thing. Other units are rough on the new guys and that can be a tough pill to swallow especially for prior enlisted.

 

Fortunately for me I have a GREAT unit. I'm still technically the new guy but my unit was nothing but supportive when I first arrived. I immediately felt part of the unit and various people took me under their wing and were just overall very approachable. I'll never forget the first day I arrived after hearing the horror stories about being the "new guy" in an aviation unit. I was greeted by everyone and told "welcome, don't hesitate if you have any questions we're all here to help you". And everyone made it a point to come over and introduce themselves and shake my hand. Everyone from the crew chiefs to the IPs made me feel like part of the family right away. That feeling took me months to achieve when I first joined the Army years ago at my very first unit. It literally took about 20 mins after arriving at my new unit for the tension to fly off of my shoulders. These guys are cool, the units down the hall...not so much.

 

That's my unit. My friends went to different units and they all received the traditional WOJ welcome. You're the new guy, sit down and shut up and stock the fridge. Those are the situations where you have to bite your tongue. Yes you used to be an E-6 or an E-7 or in my good friends case an E-8. But now you are a WO1, the bottom of the barrel in a new field. Even though you were in Iraq when most of these CW2's were chasing girls in high school it doesn't matter anymore. That's where the humility comes in to play.

 

Now of course it's easy for me to say that because I didn't get that treatment. But from what Im hearing it seems like the majority of people do. That's where a course like WOCS can be beneficial. If you can deal with the BS in WOCS then you can deal with the BS of being the new guy in a new unit. Just have to bite your tongue and call your friends and complain every couple nights like my friends do me at least 3 times a week.

[Diesel5187]

This is a BIG one. Depending on what type of unit you go to as a WO1 you will experience different things. Some units are great and don't play the whole "new guy gets treated like trash" thing. Other units are rough on the new guys and that can be a tough pill to swallow especially for prior enlisted.

 

Fortunately for me I have a GREAT unit. I'm still technically the new guy but my unit was nothing but supportive when I first arrived. I immediately felt part of the unit and various people took me under their wing and were just overall very approachable. I'll never forget the first day I arrived after hearing the horror stories about being the "new guy" in an aviation unit. I was greeted by everyone and told "welcome, don't hesitate if you have any questions we're all here to help you". And everyone made it a point to come over and introduce themselves and shake my hand. Everyone from the crew chiefs to the IPs made me feel like part of the family right away. That feeling took me months to achieve when I first joined the Army years ago at my very first unit. It literally took about 20 mins after arriving at my new unit for the tension to fly off of my shoulders. These guys are cool, the units down the hall...not so much.

 

That's my unit. My friends went to different units and they all received the traditional WOJ welcome. You're the new guy, sit down and shut up and stock the fridge. Those are the situations where you have to bite your tongue. Yes you used to be an E-6 or an E-7 or in my good friends case an E-8. But now you are a WO1, the bottom of the barrel in a new field. Even though you were in Iraq when most of these CW2's were chasing girls in high school it doesn't matter anymore. That's where the humility comes in to play.

 

Now of course it's easy for me to say that because I didn't get that treatment. But from what Im hearing it seems like the majority of people do. That's where a course like WOCS can be beneficial. If you can deal with the BS in WOCS then you can deal with the BS of being the new guy in a new unit. Just have to bite your tongue and call your friends and complain every couple nights like my friends do me at least 3 times a week.

Which unit is that? That is a team I'd like to be a part of.

[goodfx]

Don't get all butthurt Lindsey. Not my fault you spend all of GWOT pursuing your own personal goals and not learning about the military. Make no mistake, your 9 weeks of basic in no way equate to years of combat and garrison experience as a Noncommissioned Officer.

So WOCS teaches nothing, is stupid, full of "hazing," and is a rite of passage school...but yet all street-to-seaters should still have to go through it? That makes total sense. You know, since we didn't just come from Basic Training where that's all that occurs. What is the benefit to the street-to-seaters then, by your arguments? It's funny; in our WOCS class the few people who struggled were prior service and they were discipline issues. Interesting.

[nightmare515]

Lets keep the name calling and personal attacks out of the discussion, there is no place for such things here. We are all here to share our experiences and help each other along our route to Army Aviation.

 

After seeing multiple members complaining about a particular course it is only rational that a newer member of the military may wonder why they should have to go through such a course while veterans believe they should be exempt.

 

A simple explanation of your opinion would suffice. The same point could have been made without the personal attacks on members here.

[stearmann4]

Goodfx,

One aspect that makes the WO Corps uniquely effective is the diversity of experiences within a given room of officers.

Having almost 13 years enlisted time (E-7 P), when I was selected for WOFT I had your same thoughts on the potential value of civilian candidates. The truth is, the standardized training we all complained about enables most every WO regardless of background to be at about the same (pertinent) experience level by the time they pin W3.

However, I'll caution you that your current attitude will cause you problems in your first unit. Ironically, you and Lindsey could potentially report together, you with your wealth of NCO experience, she with her Masters, and helicopter CFI. Other than credibility with the NRCMs, there's not much your NCO background will do for you at the junior WO level. Meanwhile a handful of you will be competing with each other for an OML to progress to PC. I know which one I'd invest my time in first...and it's not the one who can recite the NCO Creed and lead a detail.

Lastly, I happen to know Lindsey was 12 in 2001 and spent 4 years applying for WOFT. The same question could be asked as to why you spent so long as an NCO before applying? I'd be Interested to know your assignment and combat experience which you feel accelerates you past your peers. I guarantee if you look left and right there are pipe-hitters all around you. You made yourself look like an incredible jackass,

Choose your response wisely, Anonymity is for perverts, I'll be down at Rucker Thursday and Friday if you wish to discuss it.

Mike-

C(360) 485-7207
Michael.g.rutledge@soar.army.mil

[stearmann4]

Please forgive my spelling errors, voice activated software while I'm driving.

Mike-

[Lindsey]

After seeing multiple members complaining about a particular course it is only rational that a newer member of the military may wonder why they should have to go through such a course while veterans believe they should be exempt.

 

To be clear, too, I understand your point about WOCS and how it appears fairly ridiculous at times. I mainly had a contention with the idea that the 7 week course should maintain it's "basic-training-style atmosphere" while the 5 week should be more of a gentleman's course. The 7 week course could certainly maintain it's length due to the extra classes us non-priors require to get us up to speed in Army leadership lingo, but let's be honest, really. WOCS was not that bad. BCT is clearly not equivalent to years of NCO experience, but coming straight from BCT made WOCS feel like a joke in terms of punishment, lack of freedoms, etc. It was much more lax, which makes sense--the focus is on producing Warrant Officers, not Privates. In my experience, non-priors struggled or didn't struggle with time management, lack of caffeine rights, etc equally to the priors. So, if it should be a gentleman's course, make it so for both. Or don't. My opinion, of course, from the other side of the fence. Obviously I've no ball in the court since that's history now. I suppose we can agree to disagree.

 

What airframe did you end up in, by the way?