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Training on the Schweizer 300 & the Cabri


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Looking at going to a school that's training students using the Schweizer 300 and the new Cabri. Was wondering if by training on these platforms I'd be setting myself up for failure or if I'll still be marketable when it comes time to instruct(if not for the same school) and later for employment. Thanks for your help. And in case you're wondering, the school in question is Precision Aviation.

 

Any other suggestions for schools would also be greatly appreciated but they must meet the following criteria:

 

1. Working with a college degree program

 

2. In a larger city or within approx. 30/45 mins.

 

3. Able to accept VA funding

 

Thanks!

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Are you speaking from experience flying pig?

 

While anything other than r22 experience can be viewed as non traditional, I think the cabri may bring a breath of fresh air to the training market here in the states... Even the new Enstrom trainer.... As the r22 has numerous issues as a primary trainer. Still most schools use the r22 and your best odds are with it. I don't seem to find a disproportionate number of unemployed cfi's who used the 300 or any other primary trainer.

Who knows.. Many other schools may pick up the cabri and your skills could be useful in it.

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Are you speaking from experience flying pig?

 

While anything other than r22 experience can be viewed as non traditional, I think the cabri may bring a breath of fresh air to the training market here in the states... Even the new Enstrom trainer.... As the r22 has numerous issues as a primary trainer. Still most schools use the r22 and your best odds are with it. I don't seem to find a disproportionate number of unemployed cfi's who used the 300 or any other primary trainer.

Who knows.. Many other schools may pick up the cabri and your skills could be useful in it.

CFI's can't find jobs as it is. Learning in a helicopter nobody uses probably isn't the best option right now Do all of your training in the R22 and you can always go get some Cabri time later if you see it starting to sweep the industry.

 

Otherwise you'll end up just as marketable as the VA student with 175hrs of Jet Ranger time.

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Guest pokey

CFI's can't find jobs as it is. Learning in a helicopter nobody uses probably isn't the best option right now Do all of your training in the R22 and you can always go get some Cabri time later if you see it starting to sweep the industry.

 

Otherwise you'll end up just as marketable as the VA student with 175hrs of Jet Ranger time.

This is solid and sensible advice, but with the blades wanting to depart midspan? no way would i fly a robinson.

Are you speaking from experience flying pig?

 

While anything other than r22 experience can be viewed as non traditional, I think the cabri may bring a breath of fresh air to the training market here in the states... Even the new Enstrom trainer.... As the r22 has numerous issues as a primary trainer. Still most schools use the r22 and your best odds are with it. I don't seem to find a disproportionate number of unemployed cfi's who used the 300 or any other primary trainer.

Who knows.. Many other schools may pick up the cabri and your skills could be useful in it.

"As the r22 has numerous issues as a primary trainer."

 

which are?..besides that T-bar cyclic and the blades coming apart, & the use of "pal-nuts".... as frank has stated "i never intended it to be a trainer, just wanted everyone to have a helicopter in their garage" ok ok,, not gonna bash him for the millions he made. Now tho? time to give it back, maybe buy blades from Enstrom?--they have a live limit of? or even Schweizer----or maybe it is time for a new helicopter? Only time will tell, in the meanwhile? i not gonna fly no robbie blades :P

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The guys at Precision stopped by our school yesterday and showed off the cabri. Its a very impressive platform. Very versatile, has a heavier MGW, a baggage compartment, composite blades, bellyhook, and will be set up for instrument traininng. Cost to operate was somewhere like 360 an hour. Thats right down the middle of our R22 and R44 rates.

 

Still uses the O-360-J2A, so it needs an engine overhaul at 2200 hrs, but no frame overhaul needed. I didnt get to fly it but two senior CFi's and our Chief pilot did.

 

Being able to have a fully articulated and near indestructible flexable blades, full down auto capable at 30 KIAS, I see this as a great leap forward in aviation for us.

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The Cabri RFM is attached!

 

The Cabri was evaluated by the Bristow Academy staff for use in Titusville at sea level and rejected. They did not like "the way it portrayed the autorotational event in correlation to future autos in larger helicopters". Not my words or my evaluation!

 

Look thru the RFM, pages 5-4 & 5-5 and see if it works for flight schools at altitude.

 

I think it could be a good trainer at sea level but question the career path for CFIs to jobs available?

 

Any new helicopter/trainer will place CFIs in the same challenging career path for employment.

 

Personally, I would like to go thru an initial pilot transition course in it to form a valid opinion.

 

Mike

Guimbal Cabri G2 Flight Manual Rev 05.pdf

Edited by Mikemv
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I can speak from experience….

 

I got my private in a 300C. Commercial and CFI in the R22. Hired to teach in the R22. While teaching at a very large flight school, the majority of CFI graduates went on to be hired at flight schools that operated Robinson products. After which, I gained employment a 2 additional flight schools that operated the R22. Oddly enough, of the 3 flight schools I worked at, 2 switched the majority of their fleet to 300’s. However, they both incorporated the R22 within the commercial training which allowed graduates the flexibility to teach in both airframes…. At no additional cost I might add…..

 

With that, fly whatever floats-your-boat. Just understand, if you do not meet the Robinson SFAR, then you are limiting your marketability for entry-level employment…….. Big time……

 

Operators and students choose the R22 simply because it’s the cheapest certificated machine to operate, and fly. After that, it’s a simple math equation based on dollars and sense……….

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The guys at Precision stopped by our school yesterday and showed off the cabri. Its a very impressive platform. Very versatile, has a heavier MGW, a baggage compartment, composite blades, bellyhook, and will be set up for instrument traininng. Cost to operate was somewhere like 360 an hour. Thats right down the middle of our R22 and R44 rates.

Still uses the O-360-J2A, so it needs an engine overhaul at 2200 hrs, but no frame overhaul needed. I didnt get to fly it but two senior CFi's and our Chief pilot did.

Being able to have a fully articulated and near indestructible flexable blades, full down auto capable at 30 KIAS, I see this as a great leap forward in aviation for us.

Not sure what's so great about a fully articulated rotor?, but anyway...

 

Next time I'm near Portland I'll definitely take one up, just so I can say, "yeah I've flown that". Kinda like I did with the 300..."been there done that don't need to do it again" :D

 

However at $360 its going to have to be a half hour demo!

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But 500 plus for a 44 somehow seems reasonable?

No it does not!

 

I've always felt that the 44 was too expensive for training. It really irritates me when schools push it on students, especially when they're above 200lbs but still below 240lbs!

 

If you want time in the 44 someone always comes along with discounted offers. The latest is $280 dual, wet...and it ain't no gay ass ferry flight either!

Edited by eagle5
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As stated, it would behoove any student to get the minimum hours required to teach in the R22 and R44. With that said, I learned in a Bell 47. Stopped my training after Comm and went to work specifically because I had Bell 47 experience. This was a few years ago, not last century. I was given R44 "PIC transition" on the job. I can think of 5 friends off the top off my head that paid all the way to "double eye" and never worked the first day as an instructor. Right place, right time, right friends all kinds of reasons why someone might say they got the opportunities. I would say dedicated, hard working, willing to work as ground crew and mow grass, pick up dog poop etc, etc etc just to get a chance to fly and they did. People don't talk about it happening because its not really all that hard to figure out where tourists go for vacation and pay for helicopter rides. They don't talk about it because they figured it out themselves, made up a resume, got in a car, put on a suit and made the effort to get the job. There is plenty of opportunity out there for people willing to go get it and plenty of good people willing to help someone get it when they see that those people put forth the effort to get it.

 

At the end of the day, if you meet the minimum requirements and show that you want it and are willing to do what it takes to get it - then most likely you will.

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As stated, it would behoove any student to get the minimum hours required to teach in the R22 and R44. With that said, I learned in a Bell 47. Stopped my training after Comm and went to work specifically because I had Bell 47 experience. This was a few years ago, not last century. I was given R44 "PIC transition" on the job. I can think of 5 friends off the top off my head that paid all the way to "double eye" and never worked the first day as an instructor. Right place, right time, right friends all kinds of reasons why someone might say they got the opportunities. I would say dedicated, hard working, willing to work as ground crew and mow grass, pick up dog poop etc, etc etc just to get a chance to fly and they did. People don't talk about it happening because its not really all that hard to figure out where tourists go for vacation and pay for helicopter rides. They don't talk about it because they figured it out themselves, made up a resume, got in a car, put on a suit and made the effort to get the job. There is plenty of opportunity out there for people willing to go get it and plenty of good people willing to help someone get it when they see that those people put forth the effort to get it.

 

At the end of the day, if you meet the minimum requirements and show that you want it and are willing to do what it takes to get it - then most likely you will.

 

Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but it seems as if you are implying that "double eyes" who can't find work aren't dedicated/hard working,...or at least as dedicated/hard working as you?

:huh:

 

I read that LA Times article. There's an ex-Navy mechanic working in a gold mine because he can't find work flying. Someone working in a mine kinda sounds like a guy who's hard working and willing to pick up dog sh*t!

<_<

 

A commercial pilot who trained in a helicopter that not many use anymore who got hired right away,...you got lucky dude, plain and simple!

:rolleyes:

 

To the OP. Get ALL your ratings in the r-22/r-44 and maybe you'll find work?

:huh:

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And, once again, I can’t emphasize the significance of working as a CFI. To wit, recently, while having a casual conversation with a potential future employer, he asked; “do you have your CFI and have you taught before?” and, this is after 23 years in the business…… In my opinion, it’s just as important today as it was on my first day as a working pilot…….

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Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but it seems as if you are implying that "double eyes" who can't find work aren't dedicated/hard working,...or at least as dedicated/hard working as you?

:huh:

 

I read that LA Times article. There's an ex-Navy mechanic working in a gold mine because he can't find work flying. Someone working in a mine kinda sounds like a guy who's hard working and willing to pick up dog sh*t!

<_<

 

A commercial pilot who trained in a helicopter that not many use anymore who got hired right away,...you got lucky dude, plain and simple!

:rolleyes:

 

To the OP. Get ALL your ratings in the r-22/r-44 and maybe you'll find work?

1 - Yes, you are reading it wrong.

2 - Maybe he wasn't willing to work for minimum wage picking up dog poop ? Don't know the guy couldn't tell you. I can only tell you about the guys I know and I already did. Plenty of guys and gals who applied who were not willing to work ground crew pumping fuel, loading passengers, cutting grass that did not get hired.

3 - Probably, or maybe a combination of doing my homework, choosing to find the most qualified instructor I could - a 40 year veteran - who had the industry contacts that would get me a job. No need to roll eyes like a little girl. I prefaced all of my statements by saying to get R22 and R44 qualified.

4 - Not necessary to do all your ratings in R22 and R44, only meet the minimums. Maybe that is why you have trouble finding work ? You don't even understand the language of a simple SFAR. I can tell you from first hand experience that 75% of the people that we tried to check out in the Bell 47 who only had Robinson experience didn't make the cut. This is the employer I worked at not where I trained.

 

To the OP don't listen to disgruntled people who have never worked a day in this industry.

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And, once again, I can’t emphasize the significance of working as a CFI. To wit, recently, while having a casual conversation with a potential future employer, he asked; “do you have your CFI and have you taught before?” and, this is after 23 years in the business…… In my opinion, it’s just as important today as it was on my first day as a working pilot…….

 

Meh, not everyone is cut out to be a teacher number one, number two not everyone has the same career aspirations.

 

For the record, never said not to get it or that it wasn't important - just relaying my first hand experience that there is probably more opportunity out there then people think there is. Don't read more into this than what was said.

 

Also for the record, I did go on to get my AGI and when I get back from the sandbox this summer I will have the money to finally do my CFI-I.

 

Shoot I still know some guys working in the GoM that still don't have an IFR rating. That would be unheard of these days.

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To the OP don't listen to disgruntled people who have never worked a day in this industry.

 

As oppossed to a guy who just got his commercial in a Bell47 and was UNBELIEVABLY LUCKY!

:rolleyes:

 

On second thought OP, just get your commercial in the Cabri, if you're dedicated and hard working enough all will work out for you!

:rolleyes:

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As oppossed to a guy who just got his commercial in a Bell47 and was UNBELIEVABLY LUCKY!

:rolleyes:

 

On second thought OP, just get your commercial in the Cabri, if you're dedicated and hard working enough all will work out for you!

:rolleyes:

 

I can tell you right now why you never worked a day in this industry. You are ignorant.

 

How many times do I have to say get qualified in a R22 and R44 before you acknowledge it ?

 

You are probably still whining about momma breaking you off the teat.

 

Just because you didn't have the forethought to actually meet people in this industry and develop job leads before you plopped down the money for your ratings doesn't mean someone else didn't - but that just luck in your book. Only reason I stopped at Comm was because I was offered a job. I was offered the job specifically because I had Bell 47 experience. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

When you grow up maybe you will quit playing the poor victim and take control of your life.

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