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Will civilian ratings give me a chance at my age?


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Sorry if this is somewhat redundant, but I decided to start a new thread on the age thing since my situation might be a little unique. I'm a CFI (rotary) with R-22/44 time and 482 hrs total. I'm prior servce, 4 yrs AD Army w/ a B.S. in economics.

 

So I do have some credentials, but I'm also 37 years old. I know the military is slimming down, but would I have a shot at an age waiver through the Guard? A buddy of mine got one, but that was some years ago. Not sure if they are approving any these days?

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yes sir, sweet home S. Carolina.

I'm a Charlestonian myself. Listen lots of people on the boards say civilian time doesn't matter all that much. I think my civilian time and ratings along with solid letters of recommendation were the only things that made me stand out. That being said the SC Guard (at least when I looked into it) didn't take street to seaters.

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I'm a Charlestonian myself. Listen lots of people on the boards say civilian time doesn't matter all that much. I think my civilian time and ratings along with solid letters of recommendation were the only things that made me stand out. That being said the SC Guard (at least when I looked into it) didn't take street to seaters.

 

I understand I won't get a waiver from street to seat, but wondering if I have a shot if I were to enlist. Not sure why civ time wouldn't matter?

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I understand I won't get a waiver from street to seat, but wondering if I have a shot if I were to enlist. Not sure why civ time wouldn't matter?

From what I understand since the program is designed to teach somebody to 0 hours it seems not to make a difference to them.

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I don't have much info on what the respective Guard/States are wavering right now. What I can say is nothing is set in stone, you just have to find the one person who will say "yes". Maybe this is your state's Guard Aviation Officer. You intent should be to convince whomever the "yes" person is, that your maturity, qualifications, education, leadership potential, etc far outweighs what they will get with the high school graduate competing for the same flight school slot. The guard in particular places more weight on your compatibility with the unit, and their perception of how much service you'll provide (i.e. don't get back from flight school and immediately start pursuing other opportunities outside the guard unit.)

 

As for your ratings, I've said before a PVT license a 50 hours doesn't mean much to me when I review a packet, a CFI and several hundred hours catches a reviewer's eye and can be a tie breaker when all other criteria are equal. What may have been misinterpreted in the past, is that civilian ratings and flight time won't bring a poorly constructed or otherwise weak packet out of the hole. If your PFT and SIFT scores are average, the guy who has the prerequisites nailed will probably get the nod over someone who has flight time. Spend time mastering the basic requirements.

 

The Army is teaching you how to fly, amazingly, the intricate, and frustrating requirements to submit a competitive WOC application are by design already indicating through elimination whether or not you'll make a good aviator, probably more so than a wallet full of ratings.

 

Mike-

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From what I understand since the program is designed to teach somebody to 0 hours it seems not to make a difference to them.

This^. Doesn't really matter if you come in with a CFI. While you might be easier to train, there's still X number of hours built into the syllabus. You won't check any faster than your stick buddy with 0 time so you won't be saving the Army any $.

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I realize what you are saying with how the program is setup. But I would think an experienced pilot would give the Army more confidence in one's ability to complete flight school vs. someone with little or no flight time. For those who have never flown, I sure hope they don't realize their uneasiness 1000 ft above ground at Ft Rucker. But maybe the SIFT is a better indicator? That's an exam I still have to take.

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I do believe it varies by state on the street to seat, but I believe most select from within.

 

Also, I checked on Washington state, since my next duty station is Lewis. I figured if I don't make it in with my current packet, I would look at the Guard route. They actually have a lower age requirement. For them it was 27. This could also vary by state, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's across the board. They are paying for your training and want a certain amount of time back from you.

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I realize what you are saying with how the program is setup. But I would think an experienced pilot would give the Army more confidence in one's ability to complete flight school vs. someone with little or no flight time. For those who have never flown, I sure hope they don't realize their uneasiness 1000 ft above ground at Ft Rucker.

I've been on two selection boards, I'm tellin' ya how it is first hand. Flight time is great, but at the end of flight school the aviator with 500 hours coming in isn't appreciably more advanced than those with no prior experience. At that, the Army may be inclined to take the 20 year old who is more likely to give 20 years of service, the guard may be a different animal. Just expedite submitting an application and let the Army tell you know.

 

You're already working against the clock as most guard units I know require you to be on station as an enlisted Soldier for at least a year before submitting a fight school application.

 

Mike-

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Fair enough. At the end of the day, it's obviously how the Board views flight time, not me. I spoke with a WOSM who said the State is open to age waivers but they are difficult to get. No surprise there.

 

I'm going to join up anyway - I sorta miss the Army environment. Am I better off going in as 09S (officer) in any branch or just enlisting if my ultimate goal is trying to get flight? Not sure if the Army would want to keep me as an Infantry Officer, for example, if I was placed there. But then again being an Officer I'd have BOLC, etc done and leadership ability.

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All braches age limit is 42 as mandated by congress.

 

Each branch/state lowers them to meet recruiting needs. A few years ago, Active duty was 42, then 35, but I don't think the Guard here ever went past 35. USAF and USMC are almost always in the 20s.

 

Your prior service time gets subtracted off your max age for enlisting. OCS age is a hard age though.

 

 

cut from a briefing I received

 

Complete Application
Submit Complete Application to SAAO Office
Attend Flight School Selection Board (February each year)
Board determines eligibility to attend IERW
Board will determine OML for IERW Quotas
Personnel selected to attend IERW must maintain current Class 1 flight physical
Birth Certificate (If over 32 at start of common core IERW you must have an age waiver) Age waiver will be requested by SAAO thru NGB to DA
Verification of Security Clearance
OER's / NCOER's ( 3 years )
BIO Summary, formatted IAW NGR 600-100, Appendix G.
DD Form 214 / 215
DA 1059s
SIFT Score Letter (Minimum Score 40)
DA Form 2-1 / ORB / ERB (Verification of GT score, min. 110)
DD FORM 2808 & 2807-1 ( Report of Medical Examination)
Class 1A Approved by Ft. Rucker
DA Form 705 (APFT Scorecard)
Unit Commanders Endorsement with attached counseling statement per SMDR 95-1, Appendix B.
College Diploma or Certified Transcript
Application for Flight Training (SMDR 95-1, Appendix B-2 or B-3)
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I realize what you are saying with how the program is setup. But I would think an experienced pilot would give the Army more confidence in one's ability to complete flight school vs. someone with little or no flight time. For those who have never flown, I sure hope they don't realize their uneasiness 1000 ft above ground at Ft Rucker. But maybe the SIFT is a better indicator? That's an exam I still have to take.

It's not like students are dropping like flies from the program. The washout rate is ridiculously low when compared to other services. You'd have to be completely clueless to get dropped from the flight portion. I'd be willing to bet you have more dropped from honor violations or physical issues than the actual flying.

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Yamer, How many LORs are needed for the Guard? Do you have a checklist example?

it's the same I believe. As far as packet contents, that varies by state so your WOSM will be able to provide the packet info. My state required one letter be from my company commander and the other two be whoever I wanted. I used the state SP and a CW5 IP from my unit who has been there since dirt was placed on earth which apparently held high regard because he doesn't just hand out lors, but when your commander takes you to the state sp who writes one and then takes you to the cw5 as a hand off to write for I guess that looks good... All I did was ask my commander and talk with him in his office and he did the rest for me with organizing the other two. I had backups in place though just in case Edited by Yamer
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I spoke with a few strength managers. Age waivers are being accepted, but it all depends on the state and the odds are stacked against me which I always knew.

 

I'm going to join again anyway. To increase my chances for flight, would it be better to enlist and then apply, or go straight to being an non-aviation officer, and then put in a flight packet?

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  • 7 months later...

I'm a Charlestonian myself. Listen lots of people on the boards say civilian time doesn't matter all that much. I think my civilian time and ratings along with solid letters of recommendation were the only things that made me stand out. That being said the SC Guard (at least when I looked into it) didn't take street to seaters.

I'm from Summerville SC, lived in Charleston for a few years! Small world!

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