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jjsemperfi

Logging Hobbs or VEMD

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For all of you Airbus pilots out there... Do you log Hobbs or VEMD? Or do you just hit your timer before you pull pitch and then afterwards when you're done with the mission. To add to this...does the time you spent picking up a patient (running on the ground at the LZ) or hot fueling count as that total flight time?

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VEMD. When you depart for a patient pickup the clock keeps running unless you shut down somewhere (POI or refuel).

 

That was the standard at our unit though army regs may allow for some other techniques.

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Doing tours I logged hobbs time, which was rigged to the collective. Now in EMS I log skids up to skids down via my watch. That's how my company logs time so that's how I do it. It's always nice to have matching numbers if anyone goes looking for it. Besides, we fly for a living so it's not like we're busting our balls to rack up flight time.

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Our company records (daily and monthly close outs) log our time based on skids up to skids down (fed from the EFB). The vemd times at the end of a mission are significantly more (at least 30%) every day than what I log as flight. It used to make me kinda sad.

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For all of you Airbus pilots out there... Do you log Hobbs or VEMD? Or do you just hit your timer before you pull pitch and then afterwards when you're done with the mission. To add to this...does the time you spent picking up a patient (running on the ground at the LZ) or hot fueling count as that total flight time?

 

Note time of lift and landing on daily flight log per company policy. Those specific points in time are significant to the medical/business bean counters, and will also define actual flight time. I've always done it that way. Engine, rotor, or even seat time are not flight time, so unless you know how to correct your Hobbs and/or VEMD, you can't log those times. Logging time is your personal statement of flight experience.

On the infrequent occasions that I've missed recording one or the other exact time, I'll check my transponder, which has the control settings and integrates nav equipment. The transponder records time at or above 30 knots, so hover time isn't included. Less embarrassing than calling dispatch for their versions of reality.

Edited by Wally

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The FAA hires lawyers to write the FARs for a reason. Flight time means exactly what the FARs say. Now, what the FAA actually MEANS, who the hell knows. No one knows what that lawyerspeak means. That's why we get into arguments all the time.

 

No aircraft has an FAA-approved-flight-time meter. You, the pilot, log FAA flight time. When you're paying for Hobbs time out of your own pocket because you're a young, raw aviator with dreams, somehow you always end up logging Hobbs time. When you're a well-seasoned, almost braised aviator, you end up logging whatever your company wants to bill their customer because it's hard enough to keep all the numbers straight at the end of the shift anyway. Both ways are technically illegal, but neither are particularly WRONG.

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A re-repost from the Antique Examiner………

 

 

This responds to your letter dated December 13, 2006, in which you ask three questions concerning the logging of flight time in a helicopter. The answers all flow from the definition of "flight time" found in section 1.1 of Title l4 Code of Federal Regulations. Your three questions are:

 

1. May a pilot log as "flight time" to qualify for a certificate or rating under 14 CFR Part 61, or for purposes of qualifying under 14 CFR 135.243(2), that time accrued in a helicopter when the aircraft is sitting on the ground with the engine running and rotor blades turning, but the aircraft has not moved from its parking place and flight has not yet commenced?

 

2. May a pilot log as "flight time" to qualify for a certificate or rating under 14 CFR Part 61, or for purposes of qualifying under 14 CFR 135.243(2), that time accrued in a helicopter after the end of a flight prior to shut down when the helicopter has set down and come to a rest at its parking place, flight has ceased, but the engine is still running and rotor blades are still turning?

 

3. If a helicopter is equipped with a "time in service" meter that is actuated only by the collective pitch control, may a pilot add a couple of tenths of an hour of "flight time" to their log book in excess of the aircraft "time in service" meter reading, to account for the time that the aircraft is starting and running up at the beginning of the training period prior to lift off, and that time the engine is idling and cooling down after the last landing, prior to the engine being shut off?

 

The regulations in pertinent part define "flight time" as “pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing." 14 C.F.R. § 1.1. As with fixed-wing aircraft, flight time in a helicopter commences the moment that it moves under its own power away from its parking place for the purpose of flight- whether departure is commenced by lifting off or taxiing. (Helicopters can be equipped with different types of landing gear; and those equipped with wheels or pontoons have the option of a vertical lift-off or taxiing before lift-off.) Flight time ends for any helicopter operation when the helicopter comes to rest after landing. It follows from the plain words of the regulation that the circumstances you described could not be logged as flight time. The answer to all three questions is that flight time may not be logged. This response was prepared by Viola Pando, Attorney in the Regulations Division of the Chief Counsel and has been coordinated with General Aviation Division of Flight Standards Service. If you have additional questions regarding this matter, please contact us at your convenience at (202) 267-3073. Sincerely, Rebecca MacPherson Assistant Chief Counsel Regulations Division”.

 

This is why I use my watch.....

Edited by Spike

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Didn't think pilots at this level would care that much about flight time. I'd just ask my boss how to log it, since he'll be the one verifying it when my next potential boss calls.

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I'd just ask my boss how to log it, since he'll be the one verifying it when my next potential boss calls.

 

Please praytell, how does your boss tell you to log it?

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"Use your bladder". When I have to pee its been an hour, really pee an hour and a half, ready to hang it out the door two hours!

Edited by eagle5

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Kinda sounds like your current boss isn’t involved in aviation…. Plus, I think the “next potential boss” would remain “potential”………

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I'd just ask my boss how to log it, since he'll be the one verifying it when my next potential boss calls.

 

For reference purposes... how many aviation jobs have you had ?

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So here is a follow up. Anyone log PIC and Flight Time as two seperate events? Ex... The flight was .8 hobbs but I hot fueled for 6 mins, and spent 12 mins sitting (blades spinning) at an LZ loading a patient. So could you log 1 hr of PIC? Or is it implied that in order for me to log PIC I have to be acting as PIC during flight.... Which leads me to another question.....what if I accidently tip the disk forward and chop someone's head off? Would I be held accountable as PIC if I wasn't allowed to log PIC on the ground?

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If you tip the disk forward and chop someone's head off that may fall under "sole manipulator of the controls", depends on who's head!

 

Get this though. My Hobbs meter goes out to the hundredths place, so I get to log that flight as .84 :D

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