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SFAR 73 Flight Review - A Very Deep Regulatory Question


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I am probably splitting hairs on this one, and I'm leaning more toward the more conservative options, but I wanted to solicit insight from the group:

 

SFAR 73 to Part 61, Paragraph 2c(1) and 2c(2) state that No flight review completed to satisfy 61.56 by an individual after becoming eligible to function as pilot in command in a Robinson R-22 [R-44] helicopter shall be valid for the operation of R-22 [R-44] helicopter unless that flight review was taken in an R-22 [R-44].

 

61.56, Paragraph (a) states that ...a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training...

 

My first question is:

If I am taking my (24 month) flight review for both the R-22 and R-44 at the same time, do I need to do an hour in each aircraft or can I do 0.5 hours in each aircraft to meet the hour requirement?

 

Secondly, 61.56, Paragraph (d) states that, a person who has within the period specified in paragraph c of this section, passed any of the following need not accomplish the flight review required by this section...a pilot proficiency check or practical test conducted by...a U.S. Armed Force.

 

My second question is:

It appears that I am not obligated to complete a flight review because I am a current and qualified military pilot; and SFAR 73 doesn't state that I need a flight review, only that if I do need a flight review, that it needs to be in an R-22/R-44. Therefore, do I still need a flight review in an R-22/R44 if I am a current and qualified military pilot?

 

Any insight is appreciated, especially if you know of any FAA Letters of Interpretation.

 

Thanks.

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I'm not sure about the first part of your question, the hour flight split. I will look into it though. I am going to be prudent though and assume that the entire hour would have to be in one or the other. And then it will only be good for that same aircraft. I would think that if you could mix time, it would expressly say that, the same way it allows you to credit 50% of R22 time towards much of the R44 time required by the SFAR.

 

The second half should go like this:

 

Yes, you are current for a flight review with your military qualifications. However, this will not allow you to operate Robinson products, the exception to fly them is still there.

 

This is the very reason that many people simply complete all of their flight reviews in Robinson helicopters. It satisfies the requirement for the flight review, and for Robinson's at the same time. In fact, lots of people go to the Robinson course when they are due just for that reason. The cost of the course is about what you would end up paying for a flight review anywhere else anyway, so you might as well get the additional background and knowledge at the course.

 

Hope this helps, and I hope it's all right! If not, I'm sure someone will be by soon to correct me.

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Well in twelve and a half years I've done six BFRs in the R-44 and in about four months I'll be doing my sixth in the R-22, and I've always done an hour in each and understood that to fly a Robby I must have a current flight review in one/both.

 

However, for the best chance at the correct answer I would email Tim Tucker over at Robinson. SFAR 73 has enough "interpretations", better to go to the source to get it right!

:)

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An SFAR review just has to be the maneuvers specified in the SFAR In each aircraft and can be done in as little time as it takes to be proficient in the SFAR maneuvers in 22/44 and has nothing to do with 61.56 regulation wise.

Most people combine them though. You'll get a PIC endorsement depending on your Robby time (12/24) as well as one for 61.56 if you meet the requirements for a flight review.

 

I haven't read it in a while though. Just how I did them for military guys.

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SFAR 73 (5) (iv) 1-3 Very specifically states the requirements to satisfy the flight review. FAR 61.56 very much applies R22139RJ. If you dont do 1 hour of flight, it wont count legally. The only difference is that there are additions to the basic 61.56 BFR.

 

1) For current review in an R-22 it has to be in the R-22, any checkride in the R-22 will also count.

2) For current review in an R-44 it has to be in the R-44, any checkride in the R-44 will also count.

3) SFAR 73 awareness training must be covered in the 1 hr ground, as well as any information the examining instructor deems pertinent for review. ( the exception to the ground is someone who recently has completed a CFI checkride, however SFAR 73 awareness training should still be covered along the review)

4) Pilot proficiency checks also cover the BFR, such as a 141 check ride for example. This one exception, may, and I repeat, may, except you from the 1 hr required flight time. However a regular BFR requires that 1 hour.

 

I teach in Robinson helicopters for a living currently and cover this topic often with students and pilots.

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SFAR 73 (5) (iv) 1-3 Very specifically states the requirements to satisfy the flight review. FAR 61.56 very much applies R22139RJ. If you dont do 1 hour of flight, it wont count legally. The only difference is that there are additions to the basic 61.56 BFR.

 

1) For current review in an R-22 it has to be in the R-22, any checkride in the R-22 will also count.

2) For current review in an R-44 it has to be in the R-44, any checkride in the R-44 will also count.

3) SFAR 73 awareness training must be covered in the 1 hr ground, as well as any information the examining instructor deems pertinent for review. ( the exception to the ground is someone who recently has completed a CFI checkride, however SFAR 73 awareness training should still be covered along the review)

4) Pilot proficiency checks also cover the BFR, such as a 141 check ride for example. This one exception, may, and I repeat, may, except you from the 1 hr required flight time. However a regular BFR requires that 1 hour.

 

I teach in Robinson helicopters for a living currently and cover this topic often with students and pilots.

 

So.... if you already have your BFR done, and you want to fly a 22, all you need is awareness training (no stated time requirements per the SFAR) and a SFAR flight review (again, no stated time requirements per the SFAR)?

 

If you don't need to satisfy 61.56 and just want to cruise around in a 22, according to sfar 73, there is no stated time requirements?

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SFAR 73 superceedes with additional training requirements. It does not take away from 61.56

 

You have to satisfy 61.56 with the additional requirements in SFAR 73 to count towards PIC eligibility in Robinson R-22 or R-44 helicopters.

Edited by WolftalonID
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Pohi, I know you know this stuff....why toy with it?

 

The SFAR ground material is the same for both ships. There may be some desire of the examining instructor to test you on the different EP's between the models. If one was so inclined to do a BFR for both models in one sitting, I would do ground for the minimum 1 hour if required and cover both models in the same ground. More time maybe required if the pilot isnt able to get through the needed topics effectively.

 

And yes, you would need to fly each model for the one hour. They are very different ships, and have very different handling. Especially in autos...one falls like a rock, the other glides like one. :)

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They are very different ships, and have very different handling. Especially in autos...one falls like a rock, the other glides like one.

 

 

Funny, I'd say they were very similar, and the R-22 glides more like a brick with wings. You want a rock, auto the 300!

:wacko:

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SFAR 73 superceedes with additional training requirements. It does not take away from 61.56

 

You have to satisfy 61.56 with the additional requirements in SFAR 73 to count towards PIC eligibility in Robinson R-22 or R-44 helicopters.

I'm not trying to satisfy 61.56 with a military pilot, just SFAR 73 PIC endorsement.

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I teach in Robinson helicopters for a living currently and cover this topic often with students and pilots.

Cool story bro. I have PIC endorsements for the 22/44, flight review in a 206 and that satisfied the ferry pilot requirements for Robinson. Tucker is gonna be pissed he let one of his babies go and I didn't get a 61.56 in a 22 and 44.

Edited by R22139RJ
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After reading the sfar again (its been years) i'd agree with r22139rj. The sfar doesn't state anything about time requirements. If you don't need a bfr by 61.56 there's no 1 hour requirement. It seems to me that as a current military guy, 135 guy, etc you dont need a full hour.

 

Truthfully i'm not sure any flight review is required in a r22/r44 once you have 200 total helicopter hours and 50 r22/r44 time. One just needs the awareness training endorsement. This is as long as one doesn't need a bfr.

 

The only flight review i'm reading required by the sfar is

if you don't have 200 total heli then one just needs 10 hours dual and a 12 month review.

 

 

This is the first time i've read this sfar in about 8 years but that's how i'd interpret it. If i need to fly an r22/r44 again, i'd probably reread it a few more times.

 

I think the only thing for the 135 guy or military guy to watch out for is to make sure they had 3 t/o landings for night and day pax carrying requirements.

Edited by rotormandan
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After reading the sfar again (its been years) i'd agree with r22139rj. The sfar doesn't state anything about time requirements. If you don't need a bfr by 61.56 there's no 1 hour requirement. It seems to me that as a current military guy, 135 guy, etc you dont need a full hour.

 

Truthfully i'm not sure any flight review is required in a r22/r44 once you have 200 total helicopter hours and 50 r22/r44 time. One just needs the awareness training endorsement. This is as long as one doesn't need a bfr.

 

The only flight review i'm reading required by the sfar is

if you don't have 200 total heli then one just needs 10 hours dual and a 12 month review.

 

 

This is the first time i've read this sfar in about 8 years but that's how i'd interpret it. If i need to fly an r22/r44 again, i'd probably reread it a few more times.

 

I think the only thing for the 135 guy or military guy to watch out for is to make sure they had 3 t/o landings for night and day pax carrying requirements.

 

 

 

 

© Flight Review:

(1) No flight review completed to satisfy §61.56 by an individual after becoming eligible to function as pilot in command in a Robinson R-22 helicopter shall be valid for the operation of R-22 helicopter unless that flight review was taken in an R-22.

(2) No flight review completed to satisfy §61.56 by individual after becoming eligible to function as pilot in command in a Robinson R-44 helicopter shall be valid for the operation of R-44 helicopter unless that flight review was taken in the R-44.

(3) The flight review will include a review of the awareness training subject areas of paragraph 2(a)(3) of this SFAR and the flight training identified in paragraph 2( B) of this SFAR.

This is at the end of the SFAR. If you did a Flight Review 2 months ago in a 206 and were NOT PIC endorsed to fly the 22/44, you would not need another Flight Review in the 22/44 until the next one is required (22 months later, or 10 months later if less than 200 hrs/50 R22/44). However, according to that SFAR, if you want to fly the 22 or 44 AFTER getting the PIC endorsement, you need a Flight Review in the respective aircraft if you want to fly it again after your Flight Review "expires."

With the little background I have on R22139RJ, I'd assume that he was not PIC endorsed in the 22/44 prior to doing that ferry flight. Did a flight review in the 206 as mentioned, and THEN got his PIC endorsement prior to doing the ferry flight and before his previous BFR had "expired." I'm spit balling here, but I'm guessing you flew around with an instructor for 10 hours and that LAST flight before getting the endorsement was less than an hour. If not, I'm curious as to your specific situation.

Edited by ridethisbike
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I assume everyone has seen Tim in this video explain the SFAR?

 

http://www.gyronimosystems.com/SFAR/

Thanks Goldy...his videos pretty much point out exactly what I was trying to explain. Hopefully the OP sees this too. I forgot to mention they have published all these on their website, we use these videos often to help clarify to students questions that come up from people trying to interpret vs read.

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I have about 2600 hours in a Robby and my endorsements never expires. Just keeping up on them. So every 2 years I do a .3 in both to keep my PIC endorsement since I do my flight reviews with my current employer.

 

Whatever your interpretation is on this topic, I submitted all my info to Robinson with a PIC endorsement for 22/44 and a flight review that had no mention of aircraft and I flew off the lot. There are people you say you can do an add on in 13 hours and FSDOs who apparently accept it.

Edited by R22139RJ
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I have about 2600 hours in a Robby and my endorsements never expires. Just keeping up on them. So every 2 years I do a .3 in both to keep my PIC endorsement since I do my flight reviews with my current employer.

 

Whatever your interpretation is on this topic, I submitted all my info to Robinson with a PIC endorsement for 22/44 and a flight review that had no mention of aircraft and I flew off the lot. There are people you say you can do an add on in 13 hours and FSDOs who apparently accept it.

 

Don't let your first hand experience interfere with internet facts !

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Don't let your first hand experience interfere with internet facts !

I don't have to be right but I'm near certain it works haha. Until the Feds lock me up I'm probably going to keep on trucking. I just need to get rich so I don't have to fly the Robby for fun anymore. Someday.....

 

It is nice to see so many people good with regulations. Where were these students when u taught?! Da hell?!?

Edited by R22139RJ
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I'm sure everyone means well. I defer to my instructor, who's been doing this for 40 years.

His take is - "most people look for regs saying they can do something, if there isn't one that says I can't do it - then I can."

That exact quote is what kept the FAA from not allowing him to tow a glider with a helicopter.

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