3 Fatal Army Helicopter Accidents within 10 Days

[zaurus]

For the future Army Aviators take note, military flying is extremely unforgiving for mistakes even in a peacetime environment. We lost a total of 8 crew members including 6 pilots the last ten days. Most members were married with children.

 

Ft Hood - UH-60 training mission, 4 killed

 

Korea - AH-64 training mission, 2 killed

 

Ft Campbell - AH-64 training mission, 2 killed

 

In the military flying business, complacency kills quite often.

 

My prayers go out to the soldiers and their love ones.

[WolftalonID]

One of the hardest faults of a pilot to admit to. Complacency.

 

It takes extreme dedication to step into your flight box and then evaluate if your all the way in or only partially. As alpha type personalities its an internal battle going on in the mind regarding the agreement to go/no go.

 

When ever you step into your flight box and you find your thoughts on anything but the flight, step out of it and take time to regroup, or if in flight, speakout to your crew and say something so they can help keep focus.

 

SRM is the common scenario among civilian flying, and with that comes a larger challenge to stay vigilant.

 

Its sad anytime I hear of a fellow aviator gone....

[cofranc]

This is very sad to hear. My thoughts and prayers go out to the affected families.

 

Flying helicopters is a dangerous job, but I am aware of the consequences. Being in the right state of mind before flying is essential to minimize the risk.

[apacheguy]

RIP brothers.

 

Fly safe out there folks.

[brackac]

Know the facts before you come in here insinuating complacency was the killer. I just left the memorial of CW4 McCormack, and found out Cabby died enroute to McCormack's memorial. There are a multitude of reasons why fatal accidents happen in our line of work. Material failure, IIMC, unknown hazards, etc etc etc. To come in here and speak of the dead and complacency in one breath is in poor taste, especially without the findings or facts. Even more so in this case.

[brackac]

Zaurus,

 

Are you currently at Rucker?

[zaurus]

brackac

 

Wasn't referring to these tragic accidents. Simply making a statement in the flying business, especially military flying, human error is quite often the cause through complacency. Of course the accident reports could take up to 6-12 months. Happy Holidays and fly safe.

[Tradewinds]

Zaurus,

 

Are you currently at Rucker?

 

No, he is not. From his postings on other boards it seems he is not in Aviation or in the military.

 

Zaurus,

 

It would be best to keep these opinions to yourself until investigations are complete out of respect for the families at the very least.

[Lindsey]

He used to be, a few decades ago.

[WolftalonID]

Know the facts before you come in here insinuating complacency was the killer. I just left the memorial of CW4 McCormack, and found out Cabby died enroute to McCormack's memorial. There are a multitude of reasons why fatal accidents happen in our line of work. Material failure, IIMC, unknown hazards, etc etc etc. To come in here and speak of the dead and complacency in one breath is in poor taste, especially without the findings or facts. Even more so in this case.

 

This is often the outburst I see when someone mentions complacency. Its sad, because I too have felt this way when it was mentioned. I took a good internal look once and finally was able to see that even in all my efforts to avoid it, and be safe.... I had only for a second allowed something that otherwise would have not been allowed or done. It cost...fortunatly only in parts, yet I saw it like those in charge of things saw it.

 

It happens, yet honestly it is THE hardest fault a pilot will admit to. It doesnt mean as pilots we are incompetent, or un trained, or not worthy as a skilled operator, it is simple human existance. We just have to remind ourselves its there waiting to distract.

 

So many times have I seen pilots defend against it...only days or weeks later have a moment hit them square in the face where they too had to step back for a second and see where they were too a human in a machines world.

 

Its all thats being said here...so dont take offence when none was given, thats sorta like stealing emotions..

[UH60L-IP]

Its all thats being said here...so dont take offence when none was given, thats sorta like stealing emotions..

 

Offense kinda was given. If "complacency" is mentioned immediately after identifying victims, in whole or in part, it is more than implied.

 

When the very first line of the very next response affirms complacency as one of the hardest faults for a pilot to admit, it is more than implied that one is asserting or agreeing that complacency is at least a contributing factor. Let's face it, if a fatal crash occurs on the roadway and you respond, "People definitely shouldn't speed," you are indeed asserting that speed was a factor. You can't get around that. Otherwise, you would start an unrelated thread.

 

As a guy who had a thousand hours in helicopters before coming into the Army to fly, let me say that if you haven't flown for the military you have absolutely no idea what it involves. None. Nada. Zilch. Not even a litte bit.

 

Complacency may have been a factor. We do not know. But it is reckless and insulting to make such remarks prematurely.

 

Let's just take the original post, minus the insult, to be one of reflection. It is a tough job, an unforgiving job, a hazardous job, and sometimes one where you may sacrifice with your life even if you do everything right. So treat the ones you love like you love them because you are not promised tomorrow. Respect those that have been lost. And honor them by learning something valuable from the results when they ultimately come out.

[Tradewinds]

Complacency may well be something worth discussion, it's an important part of Aviation and very much worth talking about.

 

I think the point made was that linking complacency in the same discussion as these recent crashes is premature at best. There have been incidents in the past, after the investigations are complete, that this discussion would be warranted.

 

No determination has been made regarding these incidents and it's far to early to draw any conclusions to what happened or the cause.

[brackac]

This is often the outburst I see when someone mentions complacency. Its sad, because I too have felt this way when it was mentioned. I took a good internal look once and finally was able to see that even in all my efforts to avoid it, and be safe...

 

 

As an Aviation Safety Officer, accident investigation is my primary job for the military. I am intimately familiar with the role complacency and pilot error has in aviation accidents.

 

My issue here is linking "mistakes" and complacency to 3 fatal accidents days after they happen, without any inkling as to the cause or circumstance. It's premature and insensitive in my honest opinion, and in one of the accidents, more than likely not a factor.

[Joe_P148]

Not to Beata dead horse but, I'm gonna beat the sh*t out of the dead horse and say.

 

Let's wait until the accident investigation comes out.

 

Until then, there are gonna be people who know very little saying a whole lot.

 

I'd prefer if we could not feed the rumor mill there's enough of that going around already.

[brackac]

On a more personal note. I am deeply saddened by the loss of a friend. I was CW4 McCormack's first student when he became an IP, and I was his roommate for our deployment in 2010. He was a great soldier, and a better father.

[WolftalonID]

I am sorry for your loss. Again, noone can be offended unless they take the offence, which humans will do, its in our nature to have emotional ties to life events.

 

We probably agree that the majoriy of all aviation accidents are placed in the human error catagory. Few are purely mechanical issues, and of those few...some are recoverable to a safe landing if the human factor performs precisely as needed when the mechanical error occures.

 

As pilots I know this is preaching to the choir. However...has anyone actually looked up the word complacency in the dictionary? It has several meanings determined mostly by the context of its use.

 

The part that should speak to all of us is where it mentions "not being aware of potential danger"...all while being content with what is going on.

 

Not being aware. Sometimes we cant know all things, sometimes what we dont know is because we chose to be content with our condition or decision versus taking extra measures or redundant checks, or speaking to our crew members. It happens so often we are "not aware" its happening.

 

This topic is good to discuss, aside from the loss some feel in these moments, human nature is always going to be a part of being human...it is why as pilots we discuss them so we can know how to better prepare.

[Lindsey]

It might be good to discuss, but not here. Not in this thread. You don't know of which you speak, what if pilot error was not at all a factor in one of these crashes? Maybe just hold off the soapbox a bit or take it to another thread. Wait unti the investigation.

[zVo]

I knew one of the -64 drivers that lost their lives recently and actually know one of his siblings even better. Such a tragedy -- he made such an impact on all the lives he touched and outside the military was an even bigger hero to his family and community.

[zVo]

p.s. I really wish I could ignore this, but I cannot:

 

Again, noone can be offended unless they take the offence, which humans will do

 

Dude, GTFO. Seriously? That's the dumbest sh*t I've heard in a long, long time. Yeah, go ahead and say and whatever you want -- it's not your fault if someone gets offended, it's theirs. For someone who wants to preach on complacency and "not being aware," you are extremely ignorant, insensitive, and irreverent.

 

I am offended. Between knowing one of the families directly affected and having some insight into a particular accident, your speculation and soapbox rant are entirely unwelcome.

[Jberto89]

Hearts out to the families and friends of the aviators.

[WolftalonID]

Nice...if you want to start a memorial thread.then do so...this thread wasnt really built as one...but it seems as if alot of readers seem to think so.

[Tradewinds]

Nice...if you want to start a memorial thread.then do so...this thread wasnt really built as one...but it seems as if alot of readers seem to think so.

 

Sure seemed to have started that way.

 

Would be nice if any judgement as to the cause would be held until it's known what happened.

[jwoft]

I heard there was, and maybe still is, a Safety Stand-down grounding all Army helicopters. Does anyone know if this is/was true? Saw it in an article..

 

My heart aches for the air crews, especially those that have families. I sometimes worry if I am doing the right thing going for WOFT considering I have 3 children. I do know that it is unjust to live a life not achieving your full potential, especially when it is something you love. These men, and women, surely didn't have to worry about that. I'd say, practically all Army Aviators are doing it because it's what they love.

 

God's speed ladies and gentlemen.

[Seth G.]

I heard there was, and maybe still is, a Safety Stand-down grounding all Army helicopters. Does anyone know if this is/was true? Saw it in an article.

It was. The grounding was lifted yesterday around 1700 CT. Not just helicopters, all aircraft.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Seth G.

[pilothooks]

Does two engines really increase safety in a helicopter? Why isn't the oh-6/ah-6 being utilized by any unit but the 160th? Who the hell is making the calls on the direction of the army's choice of airframe? I had a friend modifying the OH-58F model in Huntsville for the progression of the armed scout program and now the whole thing has been scrubbed. f*cking bullshit. Air Cav is f*cking dead.