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So I've been healthy my whole career and have been super lucky with injuries. I just hurt my knee last week doing a BN run..it's almost unbearable to walk. I went to the doctor and they said its "runners knee". I guess my question is if I'm selected next month and have a profile for running or something will they kick me out of wocs? Or deny my entry? I feel like I have the worse luck and timing ever. I'll probably get picked up and find out I need surgery or something..

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Per AR 350-1, paragraph 3-13j(3), Candidates applying to WOCS or OCS must pass the standard three-event APFT as a enrollment requirement. An exception to policy may be granted by HQDA DCS, G3/5/7 for a permanent profile to the running event only. The exception only allows the Soldier to apply to compete for entry into WOC or OCS school. The permanent profile must be a result of extraordinary circumstances.

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Per AR 350-1, paragraph 3-13j(3), Candidates applying to WOCS or OCS must pass the standard three-event APFT as a enrollment requirement. An exception to policy may be granted by HQDA DCS, G3/5/7 for a permanent profile to the running event only. The exception only allows the Soldier to apply to compete for entry into WOC or OCS school. The permanent profile must be a result of extraordinary circumstances.

Well hopefully I'm not like this more than a few weeks. It's just a temporary profile but if it lasts a while there's no way I'll be able to run. I can barely all without having to stop in pain. I guess I was more curious if I had a temp profile if that will like flag me and make them reverse my selection if I am. I know there's typically a few months between selection and wocs and I'm pretty sure I'll pop 14 Motrin and run through the pain to get through wocs lol
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Runner's knee can be a lot of things. My opinion- a good trainer or physical therapist are worth the money when these problems start interfering with your life. A trainer does more than just run you through exercises like drill sergeant on the platform. And I don't think they count as 'medical care'... I thought I was going to be down with two arthritic knees, but my trainer suggested it was a a mechanical issue- really, really bad form running, who knew? I ran wrong for 65 years... You might ask around at the gym for recommendations.

 

Anyhow, the buristis responds well to ice and NSAIDs. I ice a couple times a day for 3-4 days and the issue abates for months.

The sciatic leg responds really well to pressure point massage and stretch, reinforced by exercise to strengthen muscle groups to stabilize the leg while running.

No meds and the knees work pretty well.

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Damn... I don't have anything to add other than I hope you get better soon. I'd hate so see one of the accepted names in May be scratched off by 'runner's knee'.

Luckily today I've had no pain at all! Hopefully that carries forward to tomorrow, I'm on staff duty for 24 hours so that means two days where I don't have to pace back and forth through the hangar climbing up and down off of aircraft. Should give it a nice rest.

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Just finished WOILE a month ago. The PPT the Army Staff Senior Warrant Officer presented showed NO profiles (temp or permanent) for WOC and no temp profiles for any PME. First day for WOILE was a weigh in. Third day was a record APFT. This was for a course full of CW3s and CW4s. We even had a CW5 in the class. People were sent home. Combine this with the Sgt Maj of the Army's initiative to slim down non-deployable soldiers and it doesn't bode well.

 

Good luck with the injury.

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We had one guy who had a G3 waiver to walk instead of run. On the USAREC site it says extraordinary circumstances, he had 3rd degree burns over a good portion of his body from an IED blast.

I would definitely call that extraordinary. They still make you do a PT test like that?

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"Runner's Knee" means "I don't know."

 

Get a prescription from a civilian doctor for physical therapy, and go to an orthotist for corrective shoe inserts. The shoe inserts correct the tilt of your foot, which corrects the tilt of your ankle (the base of the two long bones in your lower leg), which corrects the tilt of bottom portion of your knee joint (the top of the two long bones in your lower leg).

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"Runner's Knee" means "I don't know."

 

Get a prescription from a civilian doctor for physical therapy, and go to an orthotist for corrective shoe inserts. The shoe inserts correct the tilt of your foot, which corrects the tilt of your ankle (the base of the two long bones in your lower leg), which corrects the tilt of bottom portion of your knee joint (the top of the two long bones in your lower leg).

They gave me orthotics. It's just weird that it is both knees at the exact same time and they both feel identical. Right now the sharp pains gone but they get sore and hurt to extend after a day of walking around the hangar.

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Running is a skill, and if you've been in the Army for an extended period of time, chances are you move like poop. PFPS was probably the most common diagnosis in the PT clinic at Fort Hood. 8 inch boots with a heel for 10 hours a day over the course of several years will destroy your ankle function, leading to upsteam issues. Add in a heavy dose of chronic cardio, done first thing in the morning before your tissues are warmed up, with zero attention paid to moving well and a lot of attention paid to moving hard, and you've got a recipe for chronic injury. There's little wonder why there are so many E-8s on permanent profile.

 

Orthotics may alleviate discomfort, but they're a crutch. Wear them until you don't need to. Do physical therapy, but start trying to find yourself a coach who can help you move a little better. Work on hip and ankle mobility, especially ankle. The path to normal human feet shouldn't start with Vibram 5 Fingers, it should start with Nike Frees or something like that.

 

I've had knee-itis for the past 15 years, ever since I 'dislocated my kneecap' doing combatives at the Academy. Found out last year after finally getting an MRI from the VA that I've got a torn quad tendon and a full thickness tear of the articular cartilage on my kneecap. The injury itself has been slowly degrading due to the occasional sports tweak, but the pain has actually improved since I've worked on running and squatting mechanics over time. It's a long row to hoe.

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Running is a skill, and if you've been in the Army for an extended period of time, chances are you move like poop. PFPS was probably the most common diagnosis in the PT clinic at Fort Hood. 8 inch boots with a heel for 10 hours a day over the course of several years will destroy your ankle function, leading to upsteam issues. Add in a heavy dose of chronic cardio, done first thing in the morning before your tissues are warmed up, with zero attention paid to moving well and a lot of attention paid to moving hard, and you've got a recipe for chronic injury. There's little wonder why there are so many E-8s on permanent profile.

 

Orthotics may alleviate discomfort, but they're a crutch. Wear them until you don't need to. Do physical therapy, but start trying to find yourself a coach who can help you move a little better. Work on hip and ankle mobility, especially ankle. The path to normal human feet shouldn't start with Vibram 5 Fingers, it should start with Nike Frees or something like that.

 

I've had knee-itis for the past 15 years, ever since I 'dislocated my kneecap' doing combatives at the Academy. Found out last year after finally getting an MRI from the VA that I've got a torn quad tendon and a full thickness tear of the articular cartilage on my kneecap. The injury itself has been slowly degrading due to the occasional sports tweak, but the pain has actually improved since I've worked on running and squatting mechanics over time. It's a long row to hoe.

Yeah I run 12 to mid 13s for my whole career and just randomly got this going on. I don't think I just randomly need orthotics lol. I think it was the fact that I didn't run the entire time I was in ALC then I do a division run on Monday and a battalion run on Thursday. Was about 12 miles total in less than a week with a kickboxing circuit in between. I think it was probably the kicking. It felt awkward and that's the only thing I can think of. As far as my run time I train at 3 miles at a 6/7 minute pace so running 6+ miles at a time at an 8 minute pace is not my cup of tea that's for sure. So who knows.

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My opinion, orthotics are not really the best answer. They did help me run, but apparatus doesn't fix you when you're injured. Ice and heat and NSAIDs fix me up in a day or two, but I'm in pain and less capable in the meantime, even with orthotics (and they are NOT cheap).

Exercising the appropriate muscles to stabilize the mechanism, training for form work much better even if you have physical issues (I have crappy feet which contribute to my poor mechanism). If you don't need orthotics to train, you minimize training injury while still getting the physical benefit and capability to meet the challenges in the service.

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Yeah I run 12 to mid 13s for my whole career and just randomly got this going on. I don't think I just randomly need orthotics lol. I think it was the fact that I didn't run the entire time I was in ALC then I do a division run on Monday and a battalion run on Thursday. Was about 12 miles total in less than a week with a kickboxing circuit in between. I think it was probably the kicking. It felt awkward and that's the only thing I can think of. As far as my run time I train at 3 miles at a 6/7 minute pace so running 6+ miles at a time at an 8 minute pace is not my cup of tea that's for sure. So who knows.

Slow miles make you fast, fast miles make you hurt. Running less than 10 miles a week at a 6-7 min/mile pace with a APFT run time in the 12s-13s is not a sustainable training methodology. You need base miles and easy days.

 

Source: running lots of slow miles while training for and running ultras the last 3 years injury free and improving my run time.

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I guess the more important question is how physically challenging is WOCS short course for NCOs? Cause if it's running /rucking 4 miles every other day with my knee still bothering me I'm f*cked lol.

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I guess the more important question is how physically challenging is WOCS short course for NCOs? Cause if it's running /rucking 4 miles every other day with my knee still bothering me I'm f*cked lol.

I can't speak for the intensity of WOCS. I'm sure you're already focusing on recovery too. I really think if you put the recovery of you knee on the top of you priority list you could do just fine. You can definitely still do slow cardio to maintain and do stretches to rebuild that injured tissue.

 

Plus, Motrin and water does amazing things haha.

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I can't speak for the intensity of WOCS. I'm sure you're already focusing on recovery too. I really think if you put the recovery of you knee on the top of you priority list you could do just fine. You can definitely still do slow cardio to maintain and do stretches to rebuild that injured tissue.

 

Plus, Motrin and water does amazing things haha.

I can rest for pt as much as I need that's not an issue. It's the fact that I'm an NCO in a maintenance company, I'm constantly climbing up and down on aircraft. My knee will be 100% when I get to work. By hour four its like 42.73% by end of the shift I can barely walk. I just need a solid week off my feet, honestly.

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I can rest for pt as much as I need that's not an issue. It's the fact that I'm an NCO in a maintenance company, I'm constantly climbing up and down on aircraft. My knee will be 100% when I get to work. By hour four its like 42.73% by end of the shift I can barely walk. I just need a solid week off my feet, honestly.

 

Do you not have a profile that will give you a week off of climbing up and down the aircraft?

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Do you not have a profile that will give you a week off of climbing up and down the aircraft?

Our flight surgeon...he's well..a dick. Dude asked me more about if I was trying to get out of a PT test than the actual injury. Hopefully it's not a torn meniscus though

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Last night I twisted my knee a certain way and it made the loudest crack noise like if you would've heard that on an 80 year old woman you would of thought Betty just broke a hip. It was the most satisfying crack I've ever had because instantly my knee went from a 8/9 on the pain scale to a 0. Maybe something was partially dislocated? Can that happen? It feels 100% today and I had no pain at night when I slept like I have been. It's been like getting stuck if you will. Where it's bent from sleeping and I wake up and have to force it open for like three nights before the loud crack lmao. Needless to say when I had force it to extend its agonizing.

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Last night I twisted my knee a certain way and it made the loudest crack noise like if you would've heard that on an 80 year old woman you would of thought Betty just broke a hip. It was the most satisfying crack I've ever had because instantly my knee went from a 8/9 on the pain scale to a 0. Maybe something was partially dislocated? Can that happen? It feels 100% today and I had no pain at night when I slept like I have been. It's been like getting stuck if you will. Where it's bent from sleeping and I wake up and have to force it open for like three nights before the loud crack lmao. Needless to say when I had force it to extend its agonizing.

 

I had a meniscus bucket tear just before OIF and stayed on it for two years. Wouldn't recommend that, but honestly, if you can get to the point where you can run without pain, you can delay getting it worked on for a while.

 

If you really want to know what is happening, try to get an MRI right away. That will give you a better idea if you can use it for a while or if something more serious is occurring. Either way, the recovery times on anything but a complete knee replacement or a total ACL rebuild, are pretty quick. Also, it could just nothing at all.

 

So after having surgery on my left knee, I started getting WORSE pain in my right knee! Turns out, it was bursitis. A good shot of local cortisone and a day or two of rest and never had an issue again and that was almost ten years ago.

 

Get yourself checked out, nothing in the army is worth hurting yourself for. And pain is different from injury, you need to find out which it is.

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  • 5 months later...

Slow miles make you fast, fast miles make you hurt. Running less than 10 miles a week at a 6-7 min/mile pace with a APFT run time in the 12s-13s is not a sustainable training methodology. You need base miles and easy days.

 

Source: running lots of slow miles while training for and running ultras the last 3 years injury free and improving my run time.

How often would you reccomend someone run each week? I've had several times where I have gone "too hard too fast" on my runs and ended up injuring myself. How fast should you run your slow miles?

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