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Azhigher

Butters' Job

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Its not the end of the world, sounds like a crappy deal all the way around and its one thing if its a crappy deal with a decent pay check, its another when its not and you are on the hook for 25K besides- doubtful one could make that much flying hop rides down in Myrtle Beach in a season! And if you ding an aircraft because of fatigue then you get throw under the bus besides if you are not dead! Nothing wrong with just walking away from that sort of crap- yea its an expense and yea flying jobs any kind of flying job is hard to come by these days but some times you just have to just say no!

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Went through some training at work this week (the cost of which will not be held over my head by the way). A few hours in today the boss says, "Why don't you take a break, come back in an hour",...its so nice not working for a slave driver!

 

You know driving may not be the best job (not the worst either), but at least no trucking company has ever asked me to pay them to do it!

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Can you explain this $25k training deal? What do they do and how come you didn't have to pay?

It's a contract he makes you sign saying that if you leave before the end of the season, you have to pay him 25k to cover his inflated training cost. I bailed before the training was done, he said if I'd stayed any longer I would have had to pay him, which is why I bailed so quickly.

 

When I saw his true attitude towards his employees I knew I wouldn't last the whole season, and 25k is a pretty large barrel to stare down every day!

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For those who are interested in becoming a professional pilot….

 

No one should sign a “training contract” for an entry-level position…. Especially, one where the applicant meets the minimum requirements…. That said, this is a clue to a scam….

 

Specifically, as stated, a pilot signs the contract, the boss is less than professional (a di*k), the pilot gets fed up and quits, the boss negotiates for a lesser sum threating to take the case to court for the full sum….. The pilot pays a fraction of the contract sum. The boss makes a profit on you as a now ex-employee….. This is a full-on scam….

 

I’ve been trained and transitioned into many different jobs and machines and NEVER had to sign a training contract… EVER!

 

Regardless of how desperate you are to get that job, don’t fall for these scams….. They are a disgrace to the industry….

Edited by Spike
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Just found out that the company I currently work for is officially an airline,...ironic.

 

,...that explains the travel benefits. :)

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People keep reading this for some reason (Happy Anniversary too, that one's over 6000 now,...damn!) so I guess I may as well keep posting, after all its entertaining someone!?

 

A couple months ago during a weak moment (or perhaps just a hard poo?) I saw an ad for a 44 tour pilot. The operation was only about a six hour drive from home so, what the Hell, I sent in a resume. That's right, the guy who hates commercial flying thought about climbing back on the horse!?,...as I said, a weak moment!

 

Anyway, last week they called me in for an interview, so, f*ckit, I got in my car and headed down. Now before you get too excited, I didn't get the job. So, why you ask, am I posting this? Well I'll tell ya,...

 

At one point during the interview he said to me, "If for any reason you don't feel comfortable taking a flight, you can not fly (and here's the kicker) and the boss will not be mad at you!" "He will not yell at you!" "Safety is very important to him!"

 

After my Jeckle and Hyde experience with Helislave Adventures its nice to know that there is at least one operator out there who doesn't treat low-timers like the turd I just pinched out! :D

 

,...plus I got a McRibb while I was there (and its not even McRibb season anymore) so all in all a good day!

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How do you maintain R22 weight with what sounds like a mild Micky Dees addiction? Asking for a friend...

Well aside from the occasional "free medium fries" deals, I stick with just a small fry and regular cheeseburger, plus 98% of the time I just drink water.

 

,...the hundred and five pushups I did earlier probably helps a little too? :D

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Chalk another one up for someone adding Butters to the ignore list. Sorry pal! I can't stand your posts anymore. Hope you find a path one of these days! Good day, and enjoy the disgusting food of McDonalds!

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After my Jeckle and Hyde experience with Helislave Adventures its nice to know that there is at least one operator out there who doesn't treat low-timers like the turd I just pinched out! :D

 

Plenty of operators out there that treat their low-time pilots well and have a real safety culture. Trouble is most of them are flight schools, and as I recall that was something you wanted no part of. I fear a lot of the disillusionment you are afflicted with is self created, not that it really matters much at this point.

 

I'm glad you didn't get that job. That might sounds harsh but to me it means (hopefully) someone who actually wants to fly and make a career out of flying got hired by a decent operator. So, thanks for sharing that! :D

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Plenty of operators out there that treat their low-time pilots well and have a real safety culture. Trouble is most of them are flight schools, and as I recall that was something you wanted no part of.

I was delightfully surprised when the chief pilot interviewing me said that he too was not a CFi. Proves that you can make it without being a teacher or ex-military pilot,...you just have to find the right place!

 

 

 

Butters, Profile of a Quitter,...

 

Just finished my second set of pushups and got to thinking, what kind of guy is butters? I mean I just did 105 pushups, that's a pretty good accomplishment for a quitter with a bad attitude?

 

I was a delivery boy for Fedex a couple years ago. One day just a couple months into the job, it rained like a mutherf*cker all day long. About ten minutes in I realized my gortex rain suit wasn't working anymore and I was soaked all the way through to my underwear! Then about twenty minutes later my scanner stopped working and I ended up sitting around for a half hour waiting for my manager to bring me another one. Did I want to quit, Hell yes, did I, no! Not only did I spend the rest of that day delivering boxes with soaking wet skivies, but that night I bought a new rain suit and kept that job for another ten months! Again, not bad for a quitter with a bad attitude!

 

During my Private training I struggled with hovering for what seemed like an eternity. Frustrated to no end I wanted to quit more times than I can remember, but I didn't. Eventually I became a pilot and in the fourteen years since then I have never once let my currency slip!

 

Even my job search. It took ten years because I kept looking!

 

Somewhere in those ten years I seemed to lose the desire to be a career pilot, but I kept trying to get work as one. Even during that last interview with freddy I didn't want him to offer me the job,...well I did and I didn't I guess? I didn't because deep down I knew I no longer wanted this, I did because I needed an end to this unbelievably long job search (I didn't want to quit until I finally had my first day on the job),...and justification for the shitloads of money I spent getting 100hrs in that stupid f*cking R44!

 

So yes, I am a quitter and yes I do have a bad attitide, but it hasn't kept from making a few achievements in my life (been doing those pushups for about eleven years now by the way) and I'm going to continue to tell newbies that this job isn't worth what it takes to get!

 

,...'cause that's just who I am, a happy recreational pilot with a negative attitude and nice pecks! :)

 

Anyway, this therapy session is over, how many more 'til I can finally let go of the bitterness from a ten year job search?,...only time will tell.

 

 

Session two:

 

As I sit here in the food court eating my beloved fries and lamenting on life's choices, one more thing about quitting comes to mind. Why I have 40hrs of hood time yet no Instrument Rating?

 

Its a long story, but to sum it up, halfway through my training my CFi left for the GOM. Afterwards things just seemed to fall apart and I became really frustrated with the school and started to really hate flying (the fun of IFR wears off after about 20hrs).

 

Two days before my scheduled checkride we found out there were a few things my new CFi had neglected to teach me! Fed up with the issues which had been brewing over the past couple of weeks topped with this icing on the cake I said f*ckit and quit!

 

Now what gets me thinking about this every so often is not that I quit so close to the end, but that (like my experience with my first job) when I did quit, no one tried to talk me out of it?

 

A bit disheartening in retrospect.

 

Years back when I was in highschool I tried that place where you get to dogfight in military trainers. Ten minutes in I got hella sick and couldn't continue (fortunately there were three of us up there so the other guy didn't miss out).

 

A few days later (out of the blue) I got a call from an ex-Airforce pilot who worked there (a guy I hadn't even met) telling me not to get discouraged, that a lot of guys get sick and I shouldn't give up on becoming a pilot!

 

Words of encouragement from a total stranger, but nothing from the CFi's with whom I'd flown, or the owner of the school,...or boss who just hired me...?

 

Just thoughts that keep me wondering?

 

 

Session three:

 

 

The tour season is approaching, and theyve posted an ad already so,

 

Once youve made it through the interview youll know the conditions in which you will be flying (as I did) now heres what he didnt tell me;

 

We dont take breaks here. Direct quote from Freddy. So if you want to eat anything during your ten to twelve hour shift youll have to, Quickly shovel it into your mouth whenever you find a free second! - another pilot told me.

 

If you cannot work that long (without a break) without getting too tired to (safely) fly passengers in and out of that wire basket, and you express your concerns to him, his response will be, Suck it up and bear through it! Direct quote from Freddy. You will though have to answer some questions on an ipad before starting the engine, one of which is, Are you physically or mentally fatigued? Seems his ass is covered, yours is not!

 

Now I get that to most here (especially you twenty-somethings with your lives ahead of you) that something as trivial as a lunch break, or your boss flippant attitude towards safety and/or the lives of his customers, is a fair trade off for getting your careers started (you gotta pay your dues right)! Me though, Im middle-aged, and this was just a career change idea, and at this point in life being treated like a human being is more important that a job!

 

The point of this post is; Know what questions to ask before you take the job! Because if you just assume you will be treated like a human being, well, You know what happens when you assume? Direct quote from Freddy!

 

So, if you can work for a guy who obviously has no respect for you or for the people who have entrusted you with their lives, then,

 

Have a nice season!

 

,and remember, Youre on salary, we own your ass! quote from the guy who was training me.

 

 

Meds are starting to kick in, and I've only got a few minutes 'till they put the "jacket" back on and take me back to my padded room,...and I have to pee, so... :blink:

 

 

Session four:

 

I can't believe after almost a year I'm still this pissed about what happened! Freddy Rick is the sorriest excuse for a human being for whom I have ever had the displeasure of working!!!!!! He runs that operation like a 19th century sweat shop!,...still can't believe he called me an ass for assuming I'd get a measly half hour break in a twelve hour shift!!! And that joke of a risk assessment, "Are you physically or mentally fatigued?" I answered yes,decided not to fly, and for my proper aeronautical decision making, got called into Freddy's office where he chewed me out because I didn't, "Just suck it up and bear through it!" What would his customers think about their pilot flying while tired?

 

 

I said, "Isn't it dangerous to fly tired, especially with passengers?"

 

Freddy responded, "Just suck it up and bear through it."

In forty-five years that's the most despicable thing anyone has ever said to me! I know I sound like a broken record, but I just can't seem to let this go! Such blatant disregard for safety, it boggles my mind.

 

If he had mentioned at any time during the hiring process, or any of our three interviews, or better yet in the job post itself, that I'd be required to work twelve hours a day without a break, I never would have even applied for the job in the first place!!! I mean, whay kind of person treats other people like that?! When I think of all the money I spent on those interviews, airfares, hotels, rental cars, not to mention what I spent getting myself those extra twenty hours in the 44 to get to his ridiculous one hundred,...it makes me sick to my stomach!!!

 

Will I ever get over this? :(

 

 

 

Session five:

 

Well my therapist says its time to say something positive, so,...here goes.

 

I've watched a lot of youtube's on tuna boat flying and am pretty sure I would enjoy that,..."IF" I could do it on a month on/month off type of contract.

 

I enjoyed flying the Sikorsky, and believe that I would enjoy cherry drying,...especially since its also a short contract, and I'd get to fly alone!

 

I also believe I'd enjoy frost patrol (certainly enjoyed training for it), plus I do like flying at night,...and alone!

 

Undoubtedly the activity I enjoyed the most in the commercial world, was flying with Boatpix. Its fun flying, I like flying over water, and I love the R22 Mariner! If it were a real job (i.e. I didn't have to buy my way in, and he hired real photographs so I wouldn't have hold the camera), I'd consider making it a career!

 

Well that's as positive as I get :)

 

 

4000 views, damn! Hope you guys are brining popcorn :D

 

 

 

Session six:

 

Admitting other possibilities,...

 

The things Freddy said to me were so outrageous that sometimes I wonder if maybe it was just an act? I mean I know I don't have the most likeable personality (why do you think it took ten years to get hired,...Hell just ask NR he's the only member who has actually met me, and he didn't hire me even after saying, "All we care about is can you can fly the helicopter, and we know you can fly", so it had to be my personality he didn't like). So maybe his wife had forced him to hire me (she's the one who got me the interview, seemed very nice when I met here too) and he was just acting like an a**hole to get rid of me as quickly as possible?

 

He was so professional when I first met him, more professional and courteous than any operator I had delt with in my ten year job search, so much so that it really impressed me (still does too)! Thats's why his Jeckle and Hyde turnaround after I was hired was such a shock! Now given the $25k price he put over my head (not to mention the things his former head pilot told me on my first interview) I doubt it, but sometimes I do wonder? Even if it was an act though, it still cost me a sh*t-load of money and I'll forever despise him for that!

 

Perhaps one day he'll screw over another pilot an they'll come here to share their story,...and confirm mine?

 

 

 

Session seven:

 

 

About a month later I got a job with Fedex back home. I'll never forget the one day during training where we were going over company policy. They told me after five hours I'd get a half hour break, then (and this is the part I loved the most) if I worked more than eight hours I'd get a second half hour break! With a sigh of relief I thought to myself, "Its good to be back in civilization!"

 

 

Final thought;

 

In the end my failure to become a career pilot boils down to just one issue. The jobs for which I have the hours simply require a level of people skills I just don't possess!

 

 

Epilogue:

 

Just got rid of the 2016 Civic I had leased when I thought I was going to be driving from one side of the country to the other twice a year for two to three years.

 

As I drove to the dealeship I could not help but reflect on being in Freddy's office signing my contract. All the while thinking, "sh*t, I was hoping he wasn't going to offer me the job!"

 

I don't know if it was the fact that it had taken ten long agonizing years to get to that job offer that made me feel that way, or maybe I never really wanted to be a working pilot in the first place, and had just been fooling myself all those years, but anyway,...it was pretty f*cked up!

 

With that car gone now though, the last chapter of this story is finally over!

 

 

So what's next for our loveable loser?

 

Been thinking about saving up some dough to lease an R44 Cadet, then starting my own little business running supplies out to people who live out in butt-crack nowhere?

 

 

By the way, for those of you who do pass by here, the reason I keep harping on this is because I still feel a great deal of anger over what happened, and burying it here in this obscure topic is a way for me to get it out of my system without bothering the regulars.

 

 

5000 views woo hoo! Hope you're enjoying this,...Bingbot :)

 

 

Edited by r22butters
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The things Freddy said to me were so outrageous that sometimes I wonder if maybe it was just an act? I mean I know I don't have the most likeable personality (why do you think it took ten years to get hired,...Hell just ask NR he's the only member who has actually met me, and he didn't hire me even after saying, "All we care about is can you can fly the helicopter, and we know you can fly", so it had to be my personality he didn't like).

 

 

 

 

I hate to dredge this up all this time later, but I found this post and thought I'd better address it.

Yes butters, you are a...strange...guy. But not the strangest helicopter pilot I've ever met, believe you me. In the years since we interacted, I've interviewed pilots who pegged the "Strange" meter. We have had some real..."characters" pass through. Some of them got hired and worked out, some did not. Some we would never ask back in a million years even though they flew okay.

We absolutely could've put up with your idiosyncratic personality. Heck, as I said, all helicopter pilots are a little weird in their own way. Based on the intro flight that *I* flew with you, your flying certainly was good enough for us to take you on. I'll give you that - you're a good pilot. And yeah, I did (and do) say that I only care about a person's ability to fly the helicopter.

But there's something important that goes along with that...

What put you in the "Not Hireable" category was your fear of heights. When I climbed up on the transmission deck of the S-55 to show you the preflight of the trans and rotor head, you seemed hesitant. When I said, "Come on up," and jokingly asked if you were afraid of heights, your response was, and I quote, "I'm not but my legs are." BZZZZT! Show-stopper right there.

The tail rotor 90 degree gearbox is 14 feet off the ground. Checking the oil level in it involves standing on top of a *tall* ladder. It's precarious If we could not count on you to preflight the ship, as well as do the other routine maintenance items (like greasing the main rotor head and tail rotor), then we simply had no use for you. Perhaps one of the R-44 operators would be a better "fit."

I hate to break it to you, but it wasn't your personality that caused you to not get the job drying cherries with us.

Sorry.

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Wow, we really have run out of things to talk about here!

 

Well, for what its worth Bob, I was actually in Washington a few months ago, got hired to fly those 58s,...'course (as I'm sure you know) they hire sight unseen over the phone.

 

Sadly though, I had to quit on my first flight (had me in an old Enstrom to start) because of an injury to my left arm I had sustained at my regular job (driving a semi for Fedex) a few months earlier that wasn't as healed over as I had thought.

 

In short when I pulled up on the collective my left arm hurt like a mutherf*cker!,...felt like it was being ripped off in fact. Sure, I had flown the 22 a few times with no pain at all, but the 22's collective is so light you can pick it up with two fingers. That Enstrom though,...f*cker felt like a 50 lbs dumbell!

 

Anyway, that's strike two on bad first days at work for old butters. My arm's doing better now (after a second cortisone shot) but I won't be trying for a cherry job next season.

 

Truth is, I don't want to drive for a living anymore, but I don't want to fly for a living anymore either, so,...?

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Soooo...you better hope you can make a living as a male gigolo?

 

Sorry to hear about your experience with ADF. I know they use the Enstrom for training although none of us understand why. You should train in the aircraft you're going to fly. Learning how to dry in an Enstrom and then going out and doing it for real in an S-58 doesn't seem very smart.

 

Speaking of which... The S-58 has the same preflight requirements as the S-55 in terms of climbing up to high places to check (and grease) the M/R head and T/R hub. Just curious as to how you were planning on dealing with that?

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You know Bob, instead of starting that up again, just enjoy this,...

 

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Kinda off the topic, but fear of heights - acrophobia is common in the human population, even pilots. Perhaps especially pilots, I have heard that mentioned.

 

I applaud NR's decision to decline to put you on the line, however.

 

The hardest part of flying is the dedication to the stuff one could probably skip today... Preflight, planning, W&B, all that other bull. Especially on job so routine you could do it in your sleep. Then it's not just today that you skip something. And then you're skipping stuff routinely.

 

And then you crash.

 

That attitude is exactly why I retired. Forty-something years of flying and I was forcing myself out to check the aircraft, and in particular, dreading the next training session. I'm not a great stick and I know it, but I always prided myself on the work, all the work, the details, detail knowledge and my drive to do it each and every time the best that I could. When I started taking shortcuts, I realized, the job isn't as important as it once was to me. Time to quit before I embarrass myself. Or kill somebody. Attention to detail, devotion to the process in full made a shoddy stick acceptable for forty something years.

 

Fear of heights, yessir! I got it. It scared the crap outta me offshore, frequently. The reality that I could land short and tip off, backwards or too far to the off-side from the pilot's seat... Or walking to the edge of the deck, a hundred feet or better off the water and then down the stairwell. I took guys new to off-shore and watched them crawl to the landing at the top of the stairs. You can beat it, but you have to work it out of your system, exposure to and tolerance of each situation. Never had a problem if I could grab and hold, etc., I used to climb. But I don't do high balconies, pedestrian suspension bridges, etc., even though I was thoroughly acclimated to the decks and ladders offshore...

 

You just gotta want it more than you fear it.

Edited by Wally
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Speaking of which... The S-58 has the same preflight requirements as the S-55 in terms of climbing up to high places to check (and grease) the M/R head and T/R hub. Just curious as to how you were planning on dealing with that?

Just a few minutes ago I was at the top of a ladder picking hard to reach figs from my father's fig tree.

 

,...and I couldn't help but think of you Bob. :D

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Butters, since when you change you avatar pic?

 

That's not the Butters I know.

Sorry Foot, but old butters has been defeated :(

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....Truth is, I don't want to drive for a living anymore, but I don't want to fly for a living anymore either, so,...?

 

You can always get a government job. I work for the guvment and we are filled with people who don't really want to work or know what they want...

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Butters, you ain't been de-feated coz you still got 2 feat to walk out of any boss's office, if he wants to treat you like that.

 

I have only just found this thread, and it makes very interesting reading. I have read your posts on other threads, and you seemed to be a fat teenage kid who had the dream of being a pilot, but just stuck with being an occasional hirer for a gallop around the traps at night.

 

Now I see a different person. I like that person.

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