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Might not matter in the FAA's eyes...just a "chance" of it happening is a BIG DEAL.

Imagine flying with a full load of PAX over a congested area and you go unconscious...down goes the helicopter right into a school while a group Special Olympics kids are there...BAM, 20+ dead all because the FAA let someone fly that "maybe" shouldn't have been.

It's the Government...that's how they think. So, if I was you, go apply for your 2nd Class and see what happens. After that is in your hand, come back here and we can direct you on the best path forward to pursue your dreams.

The chance of me losing consciousness is very slim.

 

I think I'll at least try to get the autoimmune removed before I attempt to get the 2nd class medical. In the mean time, I can get my private pilot license.

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The chance of me losing consciousness is very slim.

 

I think I'll at least try to get the autoimmune removed before I attempt to get the 2nd class medical. In the mean time, I can get my private pilot license.

The chance of an engine failure is also very slim (unless you're Avbug), but we still prepare and practice for them A LOT!

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johnw2156 wrote:

Autoimmune Encephalitis - I have this diagnosis for some neuro-psychiatric symptoms I was exhibiting, including OCD (I'm pretty sure everybody has some OCD)...

 

Whoops, almost missed something. Yes, everybody "probably" suffers from some kind of CDO. Mine is making sure everything is alphabetized properly. But I almost glossed-over the first part of your statement: "I have this diagnosis for some neuro-psychiatric symptoms...including OCD."

 

Oh really? What are the other neuro-psychiatric symptoms? Come clean with us, boy! What kind of psycho sh*t have you got going on in that little 16 year-old brain of yours? Suicidal thoughts? Getting a bunch of tattoos and dressing like Justin Bieber? Are you one of them anti-social goth kids at school? (Do they even exist anymore? They do on South Park, but that's my only peek into modern pop culture.)

 

Addison's...hmm...hormone deficiency? Gee, I wish I had a few *less* hormones when I was 16. They seemed to control my life back then. DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU? Yes, I was a total boy-whore.

 

Ah, but seriously... Look son, you have a hard road. Just having Addison's is bad enough. The other things...well...you'll have to deal with them the best you can.

 

Asking for medical advice from pilots on an internet forum is just silly. None of us are doctors (well, except for Admiral Professor General Dr. Avbug, MD. PhD., DDS, Esq.) The rest of us really can't tell you much. What we all *can* tell you is that the FAA takes loss-of-consciousness, or even the potential loss-of-consciousness VERY seriously.

 

​Friend of mine had a minor motorcycle accident. Fell down and bumped his helmeted head hard enough to make him black out for a moment or two. Dutifully he reported this to the FAA who basically told him (I swear this is true), "You're not a pilot anymore. Call us back in two years when you've documented that you haven't had anymore blackouts."

 

He couldn't apply for another medical for two years. He couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it! Two friggin years?? Yep. The FAA said, "See ya!" as they tore his flight physical into tiny little bits and scattered them to the winds, mimicking in size the ticker-tape parade Hillary will have after she's elected in a couple of days. So my friend took a little two-year vacation, bought a camper and toured the country with his wife and kids. Fortunately he is back flying today, happy and healthy and no more blackouts (and no more motorcycles, by the way!).

 

So JohnW, given all you've told us, I can say with some confidence that the FAA will probably *never* grant you a medical that would allow you to fly commercially (e.g. Class II or higher). They *might* grant you a special issuance Class III (perhaps renewable every six months) to fly for fun.

 

It is sad that you probably won't be able to find your fortune as an airline pilot. I hate that you thought you might have to "settle" for helicopters because the medical standards are so much more lax than the airlines. Dammit, the money just isn't as good in our industry. Although I have to admit, taking selfies in helicopters is way cooler than in the cockpit of a 737. ...Unless you're that British Airways pilot who recently made the news...yikes!

 

But hey, the world needs actors too! In fact...I just watched a movie called "This Is The End" that had a bunch of supposedly hot young Hollywood actors in it (Franco, Rogen and that super-annoying fat kid from Super Bad - whatever his name was, Joshua-something, I forget). What a piece of sh*t movie! I'm glad I didn't pay to see it. Halfway through I picked up my phone and got lost in Facebook and YouTube as I usually do on a Friday night...and it wasn't even Friday night! If the morons in that movie constitute the best of the best of the current Acting Community in the film industry, then we're in deep, deep trouble. There's a definite hole you could probably fill (and no that's not a James Franco homosex joke). Even if you only ever acted in your third grade production of Macbeth, you'd probably still be a better actor than that Seth Rogen. Ugh. I say go for it.

 

Whatever happens...whichever road you take...good luck to you.

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"This is the end",...? HA, I loved that movie!

 

I saw it the other night after reading an article in the latest Robinson News Letter about this awesome cherry drying chick in a 44!

:D

Edited by r22butters

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johnw2156

 

You’re putting the cart before the horse…….

 

If you’re ok with just being a private/sports pilot, then I’d say continue on…

 

If your goal is to be a pro-pilot then I’d suggest focusing on getting well, including staying well, and only move forward when you have that 2nd class secured in hand for a number of years….. In fact, I’d shoot for the 1st class just because……

 

Lots of pilots have problems with medical certification, mostly due to aging. If your medical track record is bumpy from the beginning, no one will hire you….. Fixed or rotory…..

 

 

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Good thing I've never lost consciousness in my life.

 

...that you know of. But- you have most certainly 'lost consciousness'-. Sleep.

 

You might not know you have otherwise 'lost consciousness' unless something dramatic happens. One of many examples- absence seizures/petit mal episodes.

 

My experience is that to the FAA, neuro and psychiatric issues are big deals.

 

I am not an AME. I would suggest you apply for Second Class certification and discover whether or not it can presently be granted. You will NOT FLY professionally without it. (

 

Arguing with pilots is like wrestling with a pig. It doesn't settle anything and you might both get dirty. And the pig enjoys it...

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They *might* grant you a special issuance Class III (perhaps renewable every six months) to fly for fun.

If you actually read my posts, you would know that I already have been granted a special issuance 3rd class medical.

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...that you know of. But- you have most certainly 'lost consciousness'-. Sleep.

 

You might not know you have otherwise 'lost consciousness' unless something dramatic happens. One of many examples- absence seizures/petit mal episodes.

 

My experience is that to the FAA, neuro and psychiatric issues are big deals.

 

I am not an AME. I would suggest you apply for Second Class certification and discover whether or not it can presently be granted. You will NOT FLY professionally without it. (

 

Arguing with pilots is like wrestling with a pig. It doesn't settle anything and you might both get dirty. And the pig enjoys it...

Like I said, I'm probably going to hold off on the second class until I can (possibly) get the psychiatric diagnosis removed.

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Like I said, I'm probably going to hold off on the second class until I can (possibly) get the psychiatric diagnosis removed.

 

 

The thing about the medical application is that it asks if you have, or have ever had any if the named conditions. Simply getting the "diagnosis removed," doesn't change the fact that you have been diagnosed, and that will require documentation to address the problem, whether it exists currently or not. It will take more than a letter from your doctor.

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I think you will find that Addison's is a condition that can be stabilised, i.e. the deterioration slows down, but it will never go away and the doses of medication will slowly increase. I have a friend with the condition and it is very draining.

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In order to get the second class medical, would I have to go through the same lengthy process that I went through to the third class medical again? I thought that once I got the third class, then I would just need a vision test to get the second class medical. That's the main difference between the medicals. That, and how frequently they expire. Otherwise, the requirements for the 3 medicals are largely the same, according to http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=b28a75cb1abb5931f466323fb253d19f&mc=true&node=pt14.2.67&rgn=div5. The third class medical has a requirement of "No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause," as do the second and third class medicals. The mental and neurological requirements are the same.

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I think you will find that Addison's is a condition that can be stabilised, i.e. the deterioration slows down, but it will never go away and the doses of medication will slowly increase. I have a friend with the condition and it is very draining.

Does your friend have his pilot's license?

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In order to get the second class medical, would I have to go through the same lengthy process that I went through to the third class medical again? I thought that once I got the third class, then I would just need a vision test to get the second class medical. That's the main difference between the medicals. That, and how frequently they expire. Otherwise, the requirements for the 3 medicals are largely the same, according to http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=b28a75cb1abb5931f466323fb253d19f&mc=true&node=pt14.2.67&rgn=div5. The third class medical has a requirement of "No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause," as do the second and third class medicals. The mental and neurological requirements are the same.

 

 

Again, you seem to know it all, given your arguing with those who take the time to respond to you, and your effort to educate the board is enlightening, given that you're 16 years old and don't hold a pilot certificate. Once more, good luck.

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In order to get the second class medical, would I have to go through the same lengthy process that I went through to the third class medical again?...

I have never had a third class exam, but my second class has always been primarily an eye test, followed by him poking and peeking in a few places. Maybe twenty minutes for the whole thing? However,...

 

Call the doc who gave you your third class and ask him! If you always go to the same doc, things tend to go a bit easier as he gets to know you.

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No, John, she is not a pilot, she is a teacher, and barely able to drag herself through a day. Sometimes she is so tired she is reluctant to get in the car to drive home. Wouldn't be a good thing to try to fly home with Addison's, and even less with a mental condition.

 

You might think that it is all under control with medication, but there will be some time when you are unable to get to the pills, or you have a stomach upset where you cannot keep anything down, much less the pills, and things can go bad quite quickly.

 

Try some other career, where your self-seeking aim to be a pilot will not endanger the lives of those who entrust them to you in an aircraft.

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No, John, she is not a pilot, she is a teacher, and barely able to drag herself through a day. Sometimes she is so tired she is reluctant to get in the car to drive home. Wouldn't be a good thing to try to fly home with Addison's, and even less with a mental condition.

 

You might think that it is all under control with medication, but there will be some time when you are unable to get to the pills, or you have a stomach upset where you cannot keep anything down, much less the pills, and things can go bad quite quickly.

 

Try some other career, where your self-seeking aim to be a pilot will not endanger the lives of those who entrust them to you in an aircraft.

Honestly, being a teacher is probably more taxing than being a pilot. And I won't fly unless I feel well enough.

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https://www.leftseat.com/sistats.htm

 

Note the stats table. Of the 400,000 airman pathological records being processed by the FAA, Cushings Addisons Disease shows 351 with a third class medical, 155 with a second class, and 162 with a first class.

 

Major affective disorders listed under Psychiatry show 29 3rd class medicals issued, with 10 and 11 for second and first class, respectively.

 

A combination of both Addisons and the Autoimmune Encephalitis is another matter that needs to be reviewed by those who specialize in seeking waivers and special issuance. I believe the original poster indicated that he sought and obtained a medical exam, was deferred to Oklahoma City, and that he was denied airman medical certification. This adds an additional layer to seeking medical certification, as opposed to someone who has not already received a notice of medical unfitness.

 

Considerable testing and documentation is required. As Leftseat.com notes, 80% of those who do not get approved fail because of insufficient documentation. Generally speaking, medical waivers are time consuming and expensive. Far more so when the right sources aren't obtained to guide one through the process.

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Honestly, being a teacher is probably more taxing than being a pilot. And I won't fly unless I feel well enough.

I Want To Be A Pilot

When I grow up, I want to be a (helicopter) PILOT because it's a fun job and easy to do. That's why there are so many (helicopter) PILOTS flying around these days. (helicopter) PILOTS don't need much school, they just have to learn to read numbers so they can read instruments. I guess they should be able to read road maps too, so they can find their way home if they get lost.

(helicopter) PILOTS should be brave so they won't get scared if it's foggy and they can't see, or if a wing or motor falls off they should stay calm so they'll know what to do. (helicopter) PILOTS have to have good eyes to see through clouds and they can't be afraid of lightning or thunder because they are much closer to them than we are.

The salary (helicopter) PILOTS make is another thing I like. They make more money than they know what to do with. This is because most people thing that PLANE flying is dangerous except (helicopter) PILOTS don't because they know how easy it is. I hope I don't get airsick because I get car sick and if I get airsick I couldn't be a (helicopter) PILOT and then I would have to go to work.

The most difficult challenge in being (and managing) pilots is influencing the decision to not fly. Hence all regulations about who, what, when, where and how to do the job. The pilot flies because it is what one desires to do above all things, making significant financial, social and temporal sacrifices to get that position.

Read this forum through, and you will see mention of tens of thousands of dollars spent to gain minimum professional qualifications, years spent pursuing experience that may never result in employment. Then, if and when you do gain a reasonably compensated position, you think you are going to casually refuse to do the job because you are a little under the weather? Read some NTSB accident reports.. You will find fatal accidents attributed to continued flight into deadly weather. Departures with known dangerous maintenance issues. Pilots flying with various medication impairments. Idiotically extended duty periods... All of which demonstrate that aviators pretty much believe they can "hack it". That attitude kills pilots, crews, passengers, and civilians by the thousands every year; pilots with hundreds or tens of thousands of hours, in every phase of the industry; but YOU know better than the FAA Medical Certification department and YOU know you won't fly "unless I (you) feel well enough".

I hope so. The record and my experience indicates otherwise. Get back to me confirming your discretion after you've flown professionally a few years.

Edited by Wally
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Honestly, being a teacher is probably more taxing than being a pilot. And I won't fly unless I feel well enough.

Unless you want to spend ten years looking for your first job as a pilot, it will be as a teacher!

 

,...and if you tell your boss you don't feel well enough to fly, you will be driving a truck again very soon!

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johnw2156 wrote:

 

...and I won't fly unless I feel well enough."

 

Son, you're going to have to learn a few things about aviation. One of them is that you go fly when they tell you to fly. There's none of this, "Oooooh, I have a headache, I can't fly today," crap. When it's time to go, you go. Pilots who are sickly and always trying to weasel out of flying generally don't stay employed very long.

 

Years ago I was having breakfast with a friend of mine. At the time he was a young guy with a fresh Commercial certificate who wanted to make helicopter flying his career. I was telling him about flying out in the Gulf of Mexico for PHI, which I did for thirteen happy years. Nine of those years involved living on an offshore oil platform for my entire seven-day "hitch."

 

"What happened if you got sick during the week?" he asked. A fair question, I guess.

 

The answer is: You don't get sick. If you wake up feeling bad, you put your big boy pants on and you go fly. See, PHI didn't have a bunch of pilots sitting around at each base just waiting for somebody to fall out sick. Virtually all pilots had job assignments. Those unassigned (i.e. "pool") pilots were generally the newbies who didn't have enough experience to fly for certain oil companies, like Shell for whom I was assigned. So a pool guy couldn't have come out and taken my place even if he was available. Pool pilots generally flew the pop-up charters that came in every day.

 

Not only that, there usually weren't any unassigned ships at the bases to ferry a relief pilot out.

 

And what would I do for the day, stay in my bunk?

 

No, you get up and fly. Luckily the "field ship" that I was flying never strayed far from the nine platforms that I serviced. Because there were days that I'd do a flight, land back at the main quarters platform and immediately hit my bunk until the next flight.

 

(That young pilot I spoke of is now an experienced Utility pilot doing powerline work, fire-fighting and lots and lots of "long-line" stuff. He's amazing and I admire him greatly for his achievements and skill. When he's out on a job at a remote site, he gets up and goes to work every morning. He knows the score. He does not get sick.)

 

Even at my current company, doing this cherry-drying thing, we have just enough pilots to cover the contracted ships. If one pilot falls out sick then that ship doesn't fly and the company doesn't get paid. Have I ever hovered over cherry trees when I would much rather be back in my bunk because I was sick? Not that I'd admit to the FAA. But between you and me, yeah, of course, all pilots probably have. There are plenty of areas of aviation where pilots work in remote places where no replacements are available, and calling in sick would put a MAJOR crimp in the operation.

 

A company will take this into consideration when deciding whether to hire you. If there's even a possibility that you might not be able to perform your duties due to an illness, you won't get hired, simple as that. They'll hire the healthy guy. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Not saying you *can't* do it - God knows that anything is possible.

 

But as I've said, you're asking the wrong people. You need to ask the FAA if you'd qualify for a Class I or II. In my *opinion*, the fact that they gave you a Special Issuance Class III does *not* mean that a Class II is guaranteed.

 

Now, if you're asking me (as the guy who hires and fires pilots at my company) if I'd hire you given everything you've told us so far, my answer would be no. Why would I? It's just too risky.

 

Sorry.

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johnw2156 wrote:

 

 

Son, you're going to have to learn a few things about aviation. One of them is that you go fly when they tell you to fly. There's none of this, "Oooooh, I have a headache, I can't fly today," crap. When it's time to go, you go. Pilots who are sickly and always trying to weasel out of flying generally don't stay employed very long.

 

Years ago I was having breakfast with a friend of mine. At the time he was a young guy with a fresh Commercial certificate who wanted to make helicopter flying his career. I was telling him about flying out in the Gulf of Mexico for PHI, which I did for thirteen happy years. Nine of those years involved living on an offshore oil platform for my entire seven-day "hitch."

 

"What happened if you got sick during the week?" he asked. A fair question, I guess.

 

The answer is: You don't get sick. If you wake up feeling bad, you put your big boy pants on and you go fly. See, PHI didn't have a bunch of pilots sitting around at each base just waiting for somebody to fall out sick. Virtually all pilots had job assignments. Those unassigned (i.e. "pool") pilots were generally the newbies who didn't have enough experience to fly for certain oil companies, like Shell for whom I was assigned. So a pool guy couldn't have come out and taken my place even if he was available. Pool pilots generally flew the pop-up charters that came in every day.

 

Not only that, there usually weren't any unassigned ships at the bases to ferry a relief pilot out.

 

And what would I do for the day, stay in my bunk?

 

No, you get up and fly. Luckily the "field ship" that I was flying never strayed far from the nine platforms that I serviced. Because there were days that I'd do a flight, land back at the main quarters platform and immediately hit my bunk until the next flight.

 

(That young pilot I spoke of is now an experienced Utility pilot doing powerline work, fire-fighting and lots and lots of "long-line" stuff. He's amazing and I admire him greatly for his achievements and skill. When he's out on a job at a remote site, he gets up and goes to work every morning. He knows the score. He does not get sick.)

 

Even at my current company, doing this cherry-drying thing, we have just enough pilots to cover the contracted ships. If one pilot falls out sick then that ship doesn't fly and the company doesn't get paid. Have I ever hovered over cherry trees when I would much rather be back in my bunk because I was sick? Not that I'd admit to the FAA. But between you and me, yeah, of course, all pilots probably have. There are plenty of areas of aviation where pilots work in remote places where no replacements are available, and calling in sick would put a MAJOR crimp in the operation.

 

A company will take this into consideration when deciding whether to hire you. If there's even a possibility that you might not be able to perform your duties due to an illness, you won't get hired, simple as that. They'll hire the healthy guy. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Not saying you *can't* do it - God knows that anything is possible.

 

But as I've said, you're asking the wrong people. You need to ask the FAA if you'd qualify for a Class I or II. In my *opinion*, the fact that they gave you a Special Issuance Class III does *not* mean that a Class II is guaranteed.

 

Now, if you're asking me (as the guy who hires and fires pilots at my company) if I'd hire you given everything you've told us so far, my answer would be no. Why would I? It's just too risky.

 

Sorry.

I was referring to my own personal flights when I said "I won't fly unless I feel well enough."

 

And I'll be sure not to apply for a job at your company.

 

I don't know why the medicals standards for flying are so much higher than those for driving a car. You can actually take your hands off the yoke in a plane and it practically flys itself. Do that in a car, and you'll veer off the road and/or smash into a tree. There are significantly more cars on the road than planes in the air. But for some reason pilots have to be in almost prefect health. Probably due to incidents like 9/11, then again the France truck attack guy proved that land vehicles can cause damage too.

 

Basically, in order to be a pilot, you have to be healthy and wealthy.

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Flying sick, flying tired, scud running in a vfr ship because the job HAS to get done (and nearly killing myself with IIMC), getting fired for doing the "right" thing, working for a slave driving tyrant, being replaceable at the drop of a hat because pilots are a "dime a dozen", moving clear across the country to work for $500 bucks a month!

 

Don't you get it kid, flying commercially SUCKS!

 

If I were 16 I'd get into the Tech industry, find an awesome paying job, make butt-loads of money, buy a Widgeon and be a happy recreational pilot for the rest of my life!

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Flying a plane is very different from a helicopter. I encourage you to take an introductory flight in a heli and see what happens when you take either hand or foot away from the flight controls. It won't take long for you to see the difference.

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