What can I change to help you out?

[Guest]

What should I add, change, or update to help the Vertical Reference Website?

 

The Helicopter Directory is still be updated but I was wondering what other items or features you would all like to see. Also, give me a straight opinion about what the weakest area is with the site.

 

Thanks!

 

-Rey

[RDRickster]

Perhaps you should assign a moderator to each functional area.  Generally speaking, the members of this forum conduct themselves rather professionally.  That said, sometimes we need somebody to keep discussions on track (last few posts on the "who's who thread" for example).  Rarely, do we need anybody to keep tempers in check, but we've all seen a few posts go the wrong direction.

[Guest]

That sounds like a good idea. I just received an email from John W. Ralph President of Gulf Island Heli. Ltd. and he said that the job ad for him was fake. The bashing he received in my opinion warrants shutting this entire site down. If any of you have information on who submitted that ad please contact me or John W. Ralph.

 

Thanks.

 

-Rey

[Heli-Ops]

Rey - Is there anyway you can trace the logged IP address for the ad placement. Check also with Kyle at CA Aviation as they had some posts from a J Ralph at that company discussing the ad so if the J Ralph there is a fake then maybe its the same guy that could have posted it, if it wasnt original.

 

Heli Ops

[matador]

IMHO up to now every time things have gone a bit off track any of the members has made an "attention call" and has been enough to get it back straight, so I would leave it like it is. It would mean more freedom and more responsability for each one of us. If there is a moderator, some could think "it`s not my bussiness", but if we all share some responsability for maintaning this place like up to now it`s like everybodies' bussiness and we all will take care. (Hope it makes sense and sorry if there are some spelling mistakes)

Buen vuelo

[RDRickster]

Matador,

 

Good point, but a moderator could delete the last 4-5 nonsense posts from "who's who" thread, OR they could move it to a RC helictoper thread.  We can only police ourselves within the limits of the technology provided.  I'm not suggesting a heavy-hand, and I'm sure Rey will select folks with lots of experience and a level-head for the moderator... even then, giving that person limited admin rights.

 

R2

[AllJeep]

A moderator can also delete double posts and duplicate threads, like some just love to do.

[AllJeep]

A moderator can also delete double posts and duplicate threads, like some just love to do.

[Heli-Ops]

Rey - The posts above have a good point. Makes it easier for you when you go out into the field for a week or so on end. Sort of like having eyes in the back of your head

 

Would suggest it is someone who spends quite a bit of time here and is a regular poster and who can devote the time. I am happy to give a freebie sub to the magazine to them as a way of saying thanks, thats if they dont subscribe already ::

 

Regards

 

Heli Ops

[flingwing206]

Perhaps you should solicit and interview volunteers - I volunteer Fly for Food!  ::potty::

[matador]

After those comments I have to agree and confess that I didn`t know the things they were supposed to do, (I'm quite an inexperienced guy in computers:angry: ). 100 % agree on your points.

Buen vuelo

[Fly for food]

Thanks John, but if you want I may be able to do it....I think I would need strict guidelines though.

 

I have another suggestion for the forum, but I think it needs discussing.   Recently I have worked at a very poor helo school, and despite talking to the FAA, little if anything was done about it (except damage to my own reputation perhaps which may come back to haunt me).  I wonder if we can have a grading system of schools.   Not perhaps a positve grading, 'cos that would be too easy, but a mild type of "credit scoring sytem".  If for example the viewable version to the subscribers  looked just like a poll result, so there are no names associated with the score -  but if anyone wants to add a score to the system the must provide to the administrator their real name and contact phone number before the score is allowed this could be checked/kept for records?  Of course this could be open to abuse from competitors; but with the name and number it lessens the likelyhood.

The purpose:  what I want to see is the schools that blatantly twist the rules to suit, or use the old boy network to stay in the game, or have dangerous practices they won't change, or rip off students money wise get some recognition for their actions.   I want new students to be able to make a fair assessment of a school, and pilots to have a place where they can purely grade a school based on their experience anonymously, without fear of reprisal from a court, the FAA old boy network or other collegues later in their career.

It is important to get a balanced view - and too many schools stay in business because they rely on this "fear factor" that exists in reporting a school - just look at the sort of advice out there on sites  - it doesn't give much encoragement.

What do you think - is it possible or an admin nightmare?  I understand that if a school has a poor reputation the students stop coming - but this isn't always true, 'cos these guys are still out there under different names or locations.

::devil::

[trdahbs]

Well, I guess foreigners must know whats best for American business. Lets let a bunch of Know-Nothings air their frustations about business practices that don't meet foreign standards.  Since overseas training schools are in such great order, thats apparently why all you guys come over here to do your training.  Do you not realize that the fewer businesses that exist here makes for fewer job opportunities for foreign flight instructors?  You might as well go back to wherever you're from and look for that truck driver job with the little flight time you'd get.  Looks to me like Fly for Food is expressing a sour grapes attitude for a job that didn't meet "his" personal career goals.  Why can't you guys just come over, enjoy OUR FREEDOMS, quit bitchin, and then go home with your flyin time.  Also, those of you who are here on a temporary basis, don't try to "save the world" from our shores, do it in you own backyard and leave Americans out of your internet posts. To the rest, don't penalize everyone in the industry with a "vendetta style" forum. :unclesam:

[Heliport]

Gentleman,

 

The topic of this thread is to identify ways in which the Vertical Reference team can make this a better service for you.  Kindly limit your comments to something more constructive that would benefit the entire forum.  If you prefer, you may start a new thread and continue this discussion elsewhere.  Vertical Reference has a very positive reputation in the industry, and the new Moderators want to keep it that way.  We rely on the professional pilots on this forum to conduct themselves in a professional manner, or at least make intelligent arguements based on fact or surveys.  As a result, you won't see the Moderators step in with a heavy hand as long as those rules are followed.  In fact, you will find a "gloves-off" area in the "As the Rotor Turns" location.

 

Sincerely,

 

Heliport

[trdahbs]

If a different view point is not allowed in the forums, all it turns into is a means for personal diatribes to be issued.  I consider my views at least as valuable as someone who dings his prior employer on line. Also, I would think a moderator would at least have some info in his profile indicating their qualifications.

[Heli-Ops]

trdahbs - I am a bit surprised at the hostility in your post. I have read Fly for Foods post a couple of times and for the life of me cant see where he is knocking the United States or saying that elsewhere is better. He is merely making a point that I myself agree with and you could very easily change the US for Britain or Australia and even New Zealand and South Africa. Both places have schools that are great, schools that suck and schools that should be out of business. Just because Fly For Food is a Brit doesnt mean anything, I wonder what your reaction would have been if the poster had been an American.  ???

 

His concerns are legitimate and from someone who has seen the good, the bad and the downright ugly it is something that needs to be addressed, for the sake of the industry. In my opinion the US has a couple of the best training establishments around, in the form of HAI and also Palm Beach Helicopters.

 

You sound like a true american patriot and I respect that but just because someone is from somewhere else besides the US, doesnt mean their opinions dont count. Lets leave the venom out of the post and get your point across. As soon as you start the personal attack it dilutes the post and loses the credibility. Believe me I have learnt this the hard way. There are ways of saying things, and ways of saying things, if you get my drift. Everyones input is welcome here, just lets try and keep it professional and not sink to the depths of the posts such as some of those on the JH forum.

 

With regards to Heliport the moderator I am also not aware who he or she is and I have been here since the beginning of this site, but saying that I respect them for taking the bull by the horns and offering to be a moderator here. All I would ask is you do the same. They dont have to be a 6000hr pilot to moderate the posts. Rey wouldnt give them the task if he didnt think they had the ability to do so. Cut them some slack and if they post responses to operational and technical questions that you dont agree with then go ahead and question their experience, I know I would.

 

Thanks again for joining the forum and look forward to reading some of your posts.

 

Heli Ops

::cheers::

[KeysCapt]

Different viewpoints are welcome in the forums .. always have been. What is not welcome is personal attacks on others for their beliefs or any other reason.

 

I don't think it can be said any better than Heli-Ops said it. I also read the post several times and I cannot discern any of the transgressions that have been alleged.

 

If there are any questions about any of this, anyone is free to ask, either here or privately, via the PM feature. That's what we're here for.

[trdahbs]

By the way American is spelled with a capital "A", and if you guys are that "sensitive", how've you made it this long in the aircraft business?  The point is many of your posters are known to each other in the industry, how do you keep negativity about businesses and biased view points out of your posts.  I'm fairly certain that Fly didn't train in Norway or Afganistan, and likely not England.  Where did you guys train and was everything picture perfect there?  What should be discussed is how we can make training better, not tear down companies that may or may not deserve to be torn down.  The Army is often not the best place in the world to work, or train, but I'm not gonna condone a voting system on how sucky or great it is.  Especially by people who haven't been there.

[Heli-Ops]

Trdahbs - Check your email.

 

Heli Ops  ::cheers::

[Heliport]

All views and comments are welcome on this forum.  However, there is a place for each type of discussion.  The helicopter community is a very small group indeed.  There are some operators that are questionable, but there are also students or former employees that could not meet company standards.  Since Moderators have no way of discerning what is accurate or not, we aren't likely to remove or edit a post.  However, if an individual wants to make a post for comment about their experience, then there are areas on this forum for public feedback and critique, where anyone may rebuke a statement.

[Fly for food]

Crikey guys, thanks for your support.  Not only are there ways of saying things there are also ways of writing things too - and I apoligize unreservedly if what was written was taken as any kind of attack on the training system in the USA.

 

Indeed, I was trying to open a discussion - I was quite prepared for a moderator or Rey to post a reply saying - "no, sorry, that just won't work", but thought that as this is the only grown up helicopter forum on the net, we could all explore the possibilities and discuss the reasons without personally attacking each other - and that is why I don't subscribe to other sites.

 

For information, I trained in the UK, and then came to the USA to take the FAA licences.  I did these ratings at what (in my opinion) is the best school in the USA (HAI).   I have worked at flight schools that are excellent (ie: they care about maintainance, safety and staff) and at a flight school that was not (illegal practices etc).

 

You will notice in my post I mentioned no names.   You will also notice I never complained to society about the school, I quit, and then followed the proper channels.   You will not find a post on this or any other site from me slagging off any school or deliberately trying to put someone out of business because of some "sour grapes" - it is not my style.

 

One of the things I love about America is the freedom of speech and the freedom to choose the country allows.  I believe my countrymen are currently and solidly supporting yours in Iraq to uphold these freedoms despite much of the world deserting us.

I beleive that if such freedoms exist, why shouldn't new trainee pilots have these freedoms to find out if they are going to get value for money or if on the second day the school will be closed?  We all know it happens; nd just as companies can find out if I have a bad credit rating or not, why shouldn't we be able to find out opinions about schools without fear of this sort of personal attack?

I get the feeling the system wouldn't work because it would be too open to abuse.  I guess that posting your experiences of a school wouldn't work because that too will be open to abuse.   I guess that reporting illegal pracices to the FAA sometimes can go either way, and so that doesn't work either.  Maybe we can all come up with a solution and REALLY help to make the USA the flight training envy of the world?

 

::devil::

[Heli-Ops]

In my opinion I think it best that we leave this thread to die a natural death.

 

Heli Ops.

[AndyG107]

Here's .02 US from one of the Newbies...

 

Moderation CAN be good... however, it can also be over-used.

 

Check out internet-locksmith (you'll only be able to access the "Public" areas, as we are a secure site). I'm on Staff there (Chat & Education Leader)... and the Admin do an EXCELLENT job of running the site.

 

I-L is Moderated (the more active threads have volunteer Mods)... and it USUALLY purrs like a kitten... HOWEVER, it isn't un-common for a thread to be locked... or for the odd Member to be put on dicscipline for violating the Terms of Use (TOU)...

 

It takes 2 out of 3 Admin to suspend a Member... and the first step is usually to require the Member to submit their posts for review (usually for a month). Step two involves their User Name being disabled for up to 90-days. The Final step? Bye, Bye, Membership!

 

We've only had to axe a few... as they each thought that they could run the site over the Admins (WRONG!). Usually, they'll "back-off" when an Admin (or Staffer) puts up a "knock it off!' type post...

 

Long story short? Mods are a GOOD thing when used in moderation (no pun intended). I, for one, would be willing to help out here... as I truely believe in the need for a site like this (just like I-L).

 

Just remember... a site is only as good as it's Members (and their attitudes). As the old saying goes... GARBAGE IN... GARBAGE OUT!

 

OK, off my soap-box (for now)!

 

Regards,

 

Andy ::rotorhead::

 

P.S. My vote is to activate the chell specker module! ::