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zaurus

Consequence of the new 10 yr obligation

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With the new IERW commitment as of 1 Oct 20, this will have a profound affect on ACTIVE DUTY Army aviators in the future possibly. Due to the increase of 4yrs,  Army aviators will not have the option of transferring to another service on active duty for flight training and career progression. The other services, regarding active duty, will demand more than 8-9 years before being eligible for the 20 yr retirement.

It's not uncommon for Army Reserve/NG pilots in transferring to the AF Air Guard/Reserves before completing their Army obligation for AF SUPT. 

A few years ago, a former Army Reserve UH-60 CW2 pilot flew as the AF Thunderbird slot pilot (#4). Obviously he completed AF OTS, SUPT and had more than a few years flying an F-16 as an active duty Officer.

In the Navy/Marines Reserves, there are no initial training slots authorized. Must be a rated aviator from their flight school or the Air Force. 

The point I'm making is this. If you are applying for active duty WOFT under the new obligation, the option of flying for another service on active duty is NOW off the table.

Not an issue if you have no concern.

Pick wisely. Especially if you have your 4 year degree.

Good luck in reaching ones future goals.

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I think itll hit civilian applicants more than people currently on AD.  10 years sounds a lot worse than 6.  Im wondering how they will handle the promotions to CW3 if everyone is already ADSO’d past their promotion boards.

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There's a chance they'd let you into the AF to be an RW-only pilot as a 11 year time-in-service CWO, but that leaves your options limited to H60s and the H139, but you'd need to be young enough to get through to OTS. You could potentially do OCS early enough that the additional commitment wouldn't extend you. UPT will be a tough nut to crack unless you're young enough to not need an age waiver. Hopefully the AF brings back the FWQ, but I doubt it, as they seem disinterested in the massive waste of money that is their training pipeline. I think they should allow the Army FWMEQC for crewed aircraft and just send the handful of us retreads there using MIPR funds rather than clog up the UPT pipeline even more, but nobody asked me. Who knows what will happen when FVL comes online; I think both options will be powered-lifts, though the SB1 might be classified as a helo. 

I do like that pretty much no one is talking about the Navy or Marines, because obviously if you'd consider that you realize that the Coast Guard is far and away the better option. Of course, the DCA program for the coasties maxes out at 10 years TAFMS, so unless they change it you're screwed there if you go the active duty route. 

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1 hour ago, StockTrader said:

I think itll hit civilian applicants more than people currently on AD.  10 years sounds a lot worse than 6.  Im wondering how they will handle the promotions to CW3 if everyone is already ADSO’d past their promotion boards.

That’s a good point, how are they going to do that?  I turned down a transition and rode the wave as long as I could which put me out 7 months after my second pass over.  That was at 9 years and 2 months time in service, we’ll short of what a 10 year commitment would require me to serve.

I haven’t read the regs in a while when it comes to promotions, but I assume they would find a way to keep you in as a CW2.  Like a SELCON.

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2 hours ago, SBuzzkill said:

That’s a good point, how are they going to do that?  I turned down a transition and rode the wave as long as I could which put me out 7 months after my second pass over.  That was at 9 years and 2 months time in service, we’ll short of what a 10 year commitment would require me to serve.

I haven’t read the regs in a while when it comes to promotions, but I assume they would find a way to keep you in as a CW2.  Like a SELCON.

There is talk of a readjustment of rank for WOs to date of winging which is a kick in the balls honestly because it doesn’t affect RLOs... I’m kinda glad I chose the guard route and am pursuing an outside career. 

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Kona4breakfast

I seriously doubt the ACTIVE DUTY AF would accept an Army UH-60 pilot with less than 9 yrs before reaching retirement, even if they made the age requirement cutoff.  Poor investment. No rate of return to speak of. Every AF SUPT graduate must do at least 10 years. That's more than 8 plus. Of course you can request a waiver but don't count on it.

AF Reserves/ NG won't be a problem with the Degree.

Max age for Naval flight training is 32 as of 30 Apr 19. But the #1 question is the retainability factor as the Army Aviator approaches retirement at 20 years.

For those who go active duty WOFT, forget flying on ACTIVE DUTY in any other service, if that concerns you. I can't stress that enough. Choose wisely. Sometimes in life, you don't want to select the easier path, unless it's the only route.

There are several reasons in not requiring any college at all for the WOFT program.

Ask SBuzzkill

PS: in the near future, the AF will have 3  helo models and 1 tilt rotor.

TH-1H/UH-1N

MH-139

HH-60G/W

CV-22B

 

.

 

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GM1

The loss of income will be approx $8k over a 15-18 month period for active duty W1s

What will the RLOs think up next for the WOs.  I forgot, 10 yr commitment upon graduating. Don't quit in IERW, that will also cost you 10 years service.

 

 

i

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36 minutes ago, zaurus said:

GM1

The loss of income will be approx $10k over a 15-18 month period for active duty W1s

What will the RLOs think up next for the WOs.  I forgot, 10 yr commitment upon graduating. Don't quit in IERW, that will also cost you 10 years service.

 

 

i

Luckily this will just be money to put into savings. I have some fixed wing hours and will have enough for a commercial conversion when done with Rucker. I’m almost at 9 now so this will put me right at 20 to get the fed retirement when I come of age. I’m doing it just to be able to serve and finish up my twenty. But I agree I wouldn’t do AD if I had another choice in front of me. I’ll live off of my airline earnings and my wife is a cardiac nurse so she makes good money as well. I didn’t have to continue my military service I just wanted to and what better way than to be a warrant flying helos. Plus I have the guard as a backup if anything like the corona happens again 🤷🏼

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1 hour ago, GM1 said:

There is talk of a readjustment of rank for WOs to date of winging which is a kick in the balls honestly because it doesn’t affect RLOs... I’m kinda glad I chose the guard route and am pursuing an outside career. 

Back to WOC for the duration of flight school?  

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8 minutes ago, SBuzzkill said:

Back to WOC for the duration of flight school?  

Negative. Date of rank will reset to the day you graduate flight school. Thats been the word at the career college for a while now, in the works.

Its a pretty easy equation for me. If they reset me, Im out after one ADSO. If not, Ill probably make a career out of the Army. I missed that 10 year ADSO thank god, Ill look to another branch or the civilian sector.

Aviation is one of the most appealing career fields and the Army cant figure out how to stop the retention hemorrhaging other than to stab itself in the jugular. 

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26 minutes ago, SBuzzkill said:

Back to WOC for the duration of flight school?  

I believe it was to the date of winging not the end of flight school. So when you graduate IERW your two years starts. (Or when you graduate advanced airframe who knows what they will do) I’m hoping I don’t catch it as I’ll be done with WOCS by the end of the year. 

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Siminole

What's interesting about Army aviation, they always had retention issues even when the major airlines never recognize their skill set. 

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33 minutes ago, GM1 said:

I believe it was to the date of winging not the end of flight school. So when you graduate IERW your two years starts. (Or when you graduate advanced airframe who knows what they will do) I’m hoping I don’t catch it as I’ll be done with WOCS by the end of the year. 

Date of winging is the date of graduation. 

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16 minutes ago, Thedude said:

Date of winging is the date of graduation. 

Graduating flight school in my mind is getting through your airframe school as well. I guess that’s why I clarified IERW. But yes graduating flight school is when you get your wings but you still aren’t done with flight school.
 

edit: Unless you don’t get your wings after IERW which is what I thought happens. If that’s not right I stand corrected. I looked it up I had it mixed up with something else I had read. Man that’s even longer than expected, I hope I don’t catch that slap on the face!

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I forgot with the Lakota you’re getting wings after IERW.  Is that when the 10 year ADSO will start too?

Edited by SBuzzkill

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1 hour ago, Seminole said:

Negative. Date of rank will reset to the day you graduate flight school. Thats been the word at the career college for a while now, in the works.

Its a pretty easy equation for me. If they reset me, Im out after one ADSO. If not, Ill probably make a career out of the Army. I missed that 10 year ADSO thank god, Ill look to another branch or the civilian sector.

Aviation is one of the most appealing career fields and the Army cant figure out how to stop the retention hemorrhaging other than to stab itself in the jugular. 

Ah, either way what a lame way to do it.

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15 minutes ago, SBuzzkill said:

I forgot with the Lakota you’re getting wings after IERW.  Is that when the 10 year ADSO will start too?

I honestly have no idea now haha I’m just as confused 🤷‍♂️ all I know is it’s going to be the day you get your wings whether that’s after IERW or Advanced I couldn’t tell you. I guess ill know soon enough. 

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I had heard talk a few years ago about people getting wings after the Lakota but none of our new guys have had that happen. Wings and graduation historically are the same day/thing. 

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When I graduated last August you got wings the same day. No one got their wings after the lakota course. You get your wings pinned the day of graduation and your orders have that day on them.

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1 hour ago, amp said:

When I graduated last August you got wings the same day. No one got their wings after the lakota course. You get your wings pinned the day of graduation and your orders have that day on them.

This is still the case today. Graduation day (after you are done with both advanced airframe and WOBC b) is when you get your wings. Essentially when you PCS away from Rucker

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