Dak13b Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 I'm currently an e6 artilleryman in the army looking to go into flight. My only issue is I cannot kill an animal due to religious reasons. People no problem, but an innocent animal I'm not allowed to do it. Is there any way around this at sere? If not I'm gonna take a ranger slot with the guard as an 11 series reclass and go-to a civilian flight school. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedrick84 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Whew.. this is a tough one. I'm pretty certain even rangers attend sere school and from what I have heard is.. Ruckers sere school (aviation) is the one someone in your position is going to want to attend vs other sere schools. I would be shocked if Rangers didn't have to attend the school. Its always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I'm sure you could talk to your buddies and explain to them about the killing of an animal situation while attending school..however that would not be a for sure. If one of the instructors got wind that you refuse to kill an animal.. you may get "extra training"... Note: I have not personally went through the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedude Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 That's a strange religious choice. We killed in pairs, one had to kill and the other had to do all the work afterwards. You may not be given the choice in which you get and a refusal to train will get you dropped from the course and subsequently from flight school. I'd call the school directly before you apply and ask how they would handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM1 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 As a ranger you’ll have to kill animals anyway for Live tissue training that’s not even SERE to make sure your combat resources are always surgical. In special warfare when I was in the Navy we had SERE and then every couple years combat medic training with live tissue. Everyone has to do it not just the medics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissK31 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 I definitely respect your religious views, however you may want to consider that SERE is training for a life or death scenario. You have an obligation/duty to survive and return with honor. Not killing/eating an animal could be the difference between you returning with honor and dying. You may want to talk to a religious leader to find out if there is an exception for this situation. Additionally, contact the school and ask for a copy of the waiver you need to sign. I'm not gonna go into details on what is in the waiver, but I can tell you that most religious observances will likely not be protected. This is because in a real-world scenario you aren't going to be able to observe a fasting, attend a service, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona4breakfast Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 If you're merely uncomfortable with the prospect of killing an animal, you'll definitely have an opportunity for training. Since it's a religious issue I think the instructors would accommodate you, as long as you were still up to participate in the rest of that particular training event. If you can demonstrate that you can contribute to your team in that situation I'd wager you'd get a pass. Having grown up on a farm, though, I can tell you no chicken is innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrhoodhimself07 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 Just for clarity, a Ranger slot does not mean an actual Ranger. Each unit has a manning roster that shows Additional Skill Idenifiers (ASI). Most 11 series MOS E-5 and above are slotted for Ranger. Just as Engineers are slotted for Sapper a School. Thus leading to no SERE school for a Ranger slot unless desired by Command or Soldier. You can have a Ranger tab and not be a Ranger, you’ll just be Ranger qualified. Being in the actual regiment is considered being a Ranger. On other note, I can almost guarantee you aren’t the first one to bring this up. I recommend calling the school house directly to be certain. In most cases the school will work with you, but I believe in SERE it would be a requirement to graduate. Killing a rabbit is not just a glorified part of SERE it is paramount to survival is some cases. I wish you the best on this and I hope you update us all. SERE is part of this pipeline for a reason. I encourage you to balance the thought of going to WOFT vs civilian flight. Which is more important to you and why? If flying is your goal, then just go civilian flight and don’t worry about SERE. If you want to be a WO Aviator then SERE, in its entirety, is a must for obvious reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 I doubt that will be a problem. Good luck friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak13b Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 I would have no problem killing one in a life or death scenario however I'm not gonna run across too many rabbits in Iraq. And I know how to make something dead I don't need to be taught that, it's a simple concept and a waste of a life. Also rangers do not go to sere I know this for fact. We got a ranger instructor in my unit currently. And as far as my goals I have 2, fly helicopters and kill bad guys. So I'm either gonna do them together or seperate lol. Thanks for the responses though guys, be safe out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nil5038 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Echoing the advice to call the schoolhouse BEFORE you are considered a student could work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedude Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 The animals are not wasted in any way during SERE. Unless we start a new war your chances of flying and killing bad guys are quite slim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak13b Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 It doesn't matter if they arent wasted I am not allowed to kill an animal unless I actually need to eat it. Might sound dumb to you guys but I don't care I got a set of instructions I choose to live my life by. For instance I can't do a demonstration/training to kill one but if I'm in the field day 5 of no food and catch one I am able to kill and eat it. But trust me there is still a fairly good amount of killing going on over there, at least for artillery guys anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak13b Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Think I'm just gonna go and if they kick me out over something this small then so be it. It's the armys money wasted on the training not mine. Thanks for the help guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedude Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 When you kill it you will be at a point of needing to eat it. Do your due diligence and call/email the school to verify this won't be a problem. If you go and are kicked out you are wasting a spot that an actual future aviator could have filled. You'll either be sent back to your previous MOS to finish the 6-10 year ADSO you incurred for attempting flight school or separated from the Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak13b Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 11 hours ago, Thedude said: When you kill it you will be at a point of needing to eat it. Do your due diligence and call/email the school to verify this won't be a problem. If you go and are kicked out you are wasting a spot that an actual future aviator could have filled. You'll either be sent back to your previous MOS to fin the 6-10 year ADSO you incurred for attempting flight school or separated from the Army. I'm trying to track down thier contact info now. Either my computer and my phone are down or thier website is currently down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona4breakfast Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 15 hours ago, Dak13b said: It doesn't matter if they arent wasted I am not allowed to kill an animal unless I actually need to eat it. At that point in the course it will likely be your only food for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) This is such a stupid conversation. You’re not going to have an issue, I f*cking promise. They’re not going to kick you out for not killing a rabbit. Get your application in already. Edited July 22, 2020 by SBuzzkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyO Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 You'll be fine. It will not bring extra attention to you as someone said before, and you can work it out so you don't physically have to do anything to the animals. Don't even worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak13b Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, SBuzzkill said: This is such a stupid conversation. You’re not going to have an issue, I f*cking promise. They’re not going to kick you out for not killing a rabbit. Get your application in already. That's what I like to hear haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminole Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 17 hours ago, SBuzzkill said: This is such a stupid conversation. You’re not going to have an issue, I f*cking promise. They’re not going to kick you out for not killing a rabbit. Get your application in already. The Army needs pilots. *NEEDS* I saw a girl go through WOCS 4 times. Its just like the Chief who signed on to my packet said. I told him I was FQ-S and he simply screamed into the phone, “THEY’VE LOWERED THE STANDARDS!” You will be fine getting through SERE without offing an exceptionally cute bunny. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowlurker Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 10:33 PM, Dak13b said: It doesn't matter if they arent wasted I am not allowed to kill an animal unless I actually need to eat it. Well you're in luck then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike0331 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Are you a vegetarian? If not, this is the most hilarious thing I’ve ever read. All I will say is I wouldn’t be too concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StockTrader Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 It boggles my mind that this, of all things, has become a discussion point on this board lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) On 7/24/2020 at 8:04 PM, mike0331 said: Are you a vegetarian? If not, this is the most hilarious thing I’ve ever read. All I will say is I wouldn’t be too concerned. Jains, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, etc. All have vegetarian sects. Some do not prohibit meat but do prohibit killing it purely for consumption. Others require a ritual. Edited July 26, 2020 by SBuzzkill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike0331 Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 4 hours ago, SBuzzkill said: Jains, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, etc. All have vegetarian sects. Some do not prohibit meat but do prohibit killing it purely for consumption. Others require a ritual. Oh, I’m tracking (as a Jew myself) that all sorts of religions have all sorts of various laws and rules as applied to food. I would just hope that one that does not permit you to kill an animal for food also would require you to be a vegetarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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