Experience Hour Gap

[psmarvalous]

Hello Everyone,

 

Bringing up an old subject and looking for 2021 ideas to apply to it. 

 

Yes, the “Experience Hour Gap”. 

I’m doing some homework on how to build hours after I get my CPL.  Other than the standard way, get my CFII and become an instructor to teach, or join the military.  I’m looking for ideas on other efficient ways to build hours.  This is what I came up with but have no idea if they are worth it or even valid:

• ·       Find an operator that has a side seat open at a busy airport space, flying a particular type of asset. 

it                        Is it worth or attractive to employers, building 50 - 100 hours side seating in a Jet Ranger at a busy airport/tower?  

• ·       After CPL, start specialized training towards a particular career type.  Move over sees for a couple years to build hours towards that career.  This is under the assumption its easier employment with a US rating.

                         Are building 1500 -2000 hours in Asia Pacific or South America recognized by US employers?

• ·       With a CPL, apply for a tier 1/tier 2 job in the US, work out a deal for more hours with less pay or loan pay back. 

                        Has anyone had experience with this?

 

Anything else out there I haven’t thought about?  Look forward to getting everyone’s feedback on this.

[helonorth]

None of those things exist.  

 

[Spike]

Not sure how, or why, 2021 ideas would be any different then past ideas.   

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

On 12/18/2020 at 1:07 PM, psmarvalous said:

Hello Everyone,

 

 

 

Bringing up an old subject and looking for 2021 ideas to apply to it. 

 

 

 

Yes, the “Experience Hour Gap”. 

I’m doing some homework on how to build hours after I get my CPL.  Other than the standard way, get my CFII and become an instructor to teach, or join the military.  I’m looking for ideas on other efficient ways to build hours.  This is what I came up with but have no idea if they are worth it or even valid:

 

• ·       Find an operator that has a side seat open at a busy airport space, flying a particular type of asset. 

it                        Is it worth or attractive to employers, building 50 - 100 hours side seating in a Jet Ranger at a busy airport/tower?  

 

• ·       After CPL, start specialized training towards a particular career type.  Move over sees for a couple years to build hours towards that career.  This is under the assumption its easier employment with a US rating.

                         Are building 1500 -2000 hours in Asia Pacific or South America recognized by US employers?

 

• ·       With a CPL, apply for a tier 1/tier 2 job in the US, work out a deal for more hours with less pay or loan pay back. 

                        Has anyone had experience with this?

 

 

 

Anything else out there I haven’t thought about?  Look forward to getting everyone’s feedback on this.

 

No operator cares about an entry level pilot having 50 hours in a jet ranger, because no one is going to trust you with an asset that expensive anyways.

Nor is any operator going to use a 200 hour pilot as an SIC; you’re more of a liability than an asset.

Specialized career training as an entry level pilot is pointless. You’re not going to be doing firefighting, sling load or power line work at 200 hours.

Indentured servitude is bad for the whole industry. Don’t ever volunteer to work for free or a substantially reduced rate. Work your ass off and put in 110% effort, and earn the job with work ethic and determination... but don’t do it for a bottom rate; it drags everyone else down with you.

The reality is you start this career in one of two ways; as a civilian CFI or serving in the military. Neither is glamorous, no one likes the idea of ‘paying your dues’ year after year, but that’s the way it works.

Once you get 1,000-2,000 hours under your belt and prove you can handle yourself and the aircraft, start looking at pathways into more specialized types of flying. Flying tours/offshore in your first turbine helicopter, utility in an R44, and MD500 off of tuna boats, SIC for utility/fire, etc.

[psmarvalous]

On 12/19/2020 at 4:12 AM, helonorth said:

None of those things exist.  

 

 

17 hours ago, Hand_Grenade_Pilot said:

No operator cares about an entry level pilot having 50 hours in a jet ranger, because no one is going to trust you with an asset that expensive anyways.

Nor is any operator going to use a 200 hour pilot as an SIC; you’re more of a liability than an asset.

Specialized career training as an entry level pilot is pointless. You’re not going to be doing firefighting, sling load or power line work at 200 hours.

Indentured servitude is bad for the whole industry. Don’t ever volunteer to work for free or a substantially reduced rate. Work your ass off and put in 110% effort, and earn the job with work ethic and determination... but don’t do it for a bottom rate; it drags everyone else down with you.

The reality is you start this career in one of two ways; as a civilian CFI or serving in the military. Neither is glamorous, no one likes the idea of ‘paying your dues’ year after year, but that’s the way it works.

Once you get 1,000-2,000 hours under your belt and prove you can handle yourself and the aircraft, start looking at pathways into more specialized types of flying. Flying tours/offshore in your first turbine helicopter, utility in an R44, and MD500 off of tuna boats, SIC for utility/fire, etc.

Thank you for the information, advice and bringing understanding to this topic.

Do you have any input on building hours in the international scene?

 

[psmarvalous]

On 12/19/2020 at 8:01 AM, Spike said:

Not sure how, or why, 2021 ideas would be any different then past ideas.   

Helicopters are being used in more industries.  Maybe there are new ways to build hours with innovating thinking?

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

1 hour ago, psmarvalous said:

 

Thank you for the information, advice and bringing understanding to this topic.

Do you have any input on building hours in the international scene?

 

Typically people come to the USA to train and time-build on a work visa, not the other way around. Short of having personal connections, I can’t imagine there being any international time building opportunities for a US based pilot fresh out of flight school.

If such an opportunity were to come up though, I would make sure that every flight is thoroughly documented in your logbook, especially if you’re flying for a small operator or a personal aircraft. Keep photos, notes, flight planning... whatever documents you can to back up your logbook entries. Those hours would be under a lot more scrutiny than someone who worked at a well recognized flight school where it is very easy to verify their resume / logbook.

[Wally]

In the olden days, like 40 years ago, I met a fair few working professional pilots who did not do the CFI/CFII thing to build hours- they started their own helicopter businesses. A couple examples that I can recall that were notable- one bought and sold aircraft; the other developed a specialized use for the aircraft, and I won't say more about that lest I violate a proprietary system he's still selling.

The military is the best way to get your ticket and the hours, but it's kind of a crap shoot as to how much time you'll build while serving- you are a soldier first, last and always- if they don't need you flying you'll still be soldiering/sailing/Marine-ing and Air Forceing. And I believe it's competitive as heck- if you ain't well 'above average' (just below Superman)? Don't even bother.

I agree with hand granade's post- overseas guys come here to learn to fly because they have a job back home.

Do tuna boats still fly? Other than that, teach and scrounge hours until you can give rides, tours and qualify for something else.

 

[psmarvalous]

2 hours ago, Hand_Grenade_Pilot said:

Typically people come to the USA to train and time-build on a work visa, not the other way around. Short of having personal connections, I can’t imagine there being any international time building opportunities for a US based pilot fresh out of flight school.

If such an opportunity were to come up though, I would make sure that every flight is thoroughly documented in your logbook, especially if you’re flying for a small operator or a personal aircraft. Keep photos, notes, flight planning... whatever documents you can to back up your logbook entries. Those hours would be under a lot more scrutiny than someone who worked at a well recognized flight school where it is very easy to verify their resume / logbook.

Thanks, this is great information!

[psmarvalous]

21 hours ago, Wally said:

In the olden days, like 40 years ago, I met a fair few working professional pilots who did not do the CFI/CFII thing to build hours- they started their own helicopter businesses. A couple examples that I can recall that were notable- one bought and sold aircraft; the other developed a specialized use for the aircraft, and I won't say more about that lest I violate a proprietary system he's still selling.

The military is the best way to get your ticket and the hours, but it's kind of a crap shoot as to how much time you'll build while serving- you are a soldier first, last and always- if they don't need you flying you'll still be soldiering/sailing/Marine-ing and Air Forceing. And I believe it's competitive as heck- if you ain't well 'above average' (just below Superman)? Don't even bother.

I agree with hand granade's post- overseas guys come here to learn to fly because they have a job back home.

Do tuna boats still fly? Other than that, teach and scrounge hours until you can give rides, tours and qualify for something else.

 

Appreciate the input.

This is right along the lines of my current situation.  Unfortunately, I wasn't thinking to be a pilot when I was in.  I was a data/comms grunt.  I have my post 911 GI-Bill I'm using for my CPL and most likely CFII.  I'm foreseeing the 2K gap to get into the qualified experience for jobs. 

Finding a more efficient solution to this topic is a good start

[Spike]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:22 AM, psmarvalous said:

Helicopters are being used in more industries.  

Like what?  

Sorry to inform you but this industry is shrinking, not expanding. 

 

Quote

Maybe there are new ways to build hours with innovating thinking?

 

So far, the responses regarding building hours have been the same responses given over decades. At the entry level, this business doesn't change.  Building time as a CFI is the best way to gain time -quickly. Otherwise, re-up and go the Mil route...

Check the search function for more detailed info on what your looking for..

Edited December 24, 2020 by Spike

[psmarvalous]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:50 PM, Spike said:

Like what?  

Sorry to inform you but this industry is shrinking, not expanding. 

 

I was under that impression with UAS taking jobs.  Here are a couple links with references about the ever slightly expanding Helicopter Industry. 

Link below - refererence page 4 (Civil Helicopter Personnel Demand)

https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/market/pilot-technician-services/assets/downloads/2019_pto_infographic.pdf

Link below - More industries are using helicopters

https://www.suu.edu/blog/2020/06/aviation-helicopter-pilot-shortage.html

 

 

[psmarvalous]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:50 PM, Spike said:

Like what?  

Sorry to inform you but this industry is shrinking, not expanding. 

 

So far, the responses regarding building hours have been the same responses given over decades. At the entry level, this business doesn't change.  Building time as a CFI is the best way to gain time -quickly. Otherwise, re-up and go the Mil route...

Check the search function for more detailed info on what your looking for..

Thank you, I'll continue to dig deeper on this topic and Pathway options

[Spike]

The Boing article stats start in 2019. That means pre-COVID. The airline business tanked this year furloughing hundreds, if not thousands of pilots and, a lot of them were experienced helo pilots who made the jump to the airlines pre-2020. Guess what, those experienced guys just went back to the helo business taking back jobs from the lesser experienced pool that remained. Hence, why you haven’t seen total time requirements decline. So in 2020, you had greater numbers of available experienced pilots in a shrinking industry. No shortage.

The SUU article comes from a flight school. They sell flight time to people who want to be helicopter pilots. They’re not in the business to tell you the truth. They’re in the business of separating you from your money. If you have a while to sit and read, search “shortage”.  Open the last page and move forward from there and you’ll get the gist…..

It's been said a bazillion times before, there is a path to success in this business but sadly, it doesn't have any shortcuts.... 

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

On 12/27/2020 at 3:30 PM, psmarvalous said:

I was under that impression with UAS taking jobs.  Here are a couple links with references about the ever slightly expanding Helicopter Industry. 

Link below - refererence page 4 (Civil Helicopter Personnel Demand)

https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/market/pilot-technician-services/assets/downloads/2019_pto_infographic.pdf

Link below - More industries are using helicopters

https://www.suu.edu/blog/2020/06/aviation-helicopter-pilot-shortage.html

 

 

I agree with what Spike said; the helicopter market overall is contracting. 

The three largest helicopter markets are HAA, offshore support and tourism. 

HAA has been expanding rapidly, but is now in serious jeopardy of additional government regulation. Charging patients $30,000 for a medevac flight, with almost no compensation from insurance companies, cannot continue unchecked. Once the government starts regulating pricing, the market will have to contract; fewer operators / bases/ jobs covering the same area.

Meanwhile, offshore support has decreased substantially over the last couple decades. In the earlier days of offshore oil, a massive number of platforms were in proximity to the coastline and serviced by a huge fleet of light helicopters. As it stands today, the shallow water regions are mostly tapped out and major oil companies have transitioned to deep water drilling. Which means fewer flights, fewer aircraft and using heavy airframes (S92, AW139) rather than numerous light aircraft (B206/407). Which ultimately means less jobs.

Tourism is facing ever growing noise abatement problems. It already hurt the market in NYC. Tours over the Hudson River were reduced substantially due to complaints from NYC residents. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawaii is hit next by extra restrictions. And even if tourism were to remain a strong market, very few pilots aspire to spend their career entertaining tourists...

Meanwhile, markets like aerial survey and ENG will be completely replaced by UAV’s. Drone technology is rapidly evolving, and will provide the same benefits for the fraction of the cost of a helicopter. I am also expecting police departments and US Customs / Border Patrol to transition heavily into drones. There will be some situations where helicopters are needed, but surveillance can be handled by drones.

I also believe the agriculture market will transition to either drones or unmanned helicopters. Pilots are expensive (and prone to making costly mistakes)... using a drone with highly reliable software would provide extremely high levels of precision and relatively low operating costs.

Any job market article from a flight school should go straight in the trash; the ‘Vietnam shortage’ has been mindlessly regurgitated for over a decade. Any Vietnam pilots retiring can be replaced by Iraq/Afghanistan veterans (or a seemingly endless number of civilian CFI/tour pilots).

The ‘airline shortage’ is a fallacy as well. There will be times of increased demand, but never a true shortage. Prior to Covid, we saw demand increase. But not enough to make regional airlines a desirable career. Rather than renegotiating labor contracts and offering desirable salaries, the airlines opted to keep salaries low and attract low hour pilots with one time training and new hire bonuses. None of the rotor transition pilots went to the regionals planning to make a career with them... they saw it as a pathway to a major airline or cargo. The plan was to take the training money, take a substantial pay cut and live frugally, until getting a cushy job with a major in a few years. Then they would be making more money than would ever be possible in the helicopter market.

I almost went for the carrot myself. Why bother flying heavy helicopters IFR when I could be doing a very similar type of flying for a major airline, making double the money? 

It only takes a short while on the airlinepilotcentral forums to see the problem with this. Many regional pilots will not make it to the majors. There are numerous stories of pilots with years of Part 121 experience, a college degree, clean record, etc being stuck at their regional. And then when a ‘black swan’ event like 9/11 or Covid occurs, the entire market gets devastated. Some get lucky and avoid the furloughs, airline bankruptcy, and career limbo; they earn a fortune over a glamorous career and can honestly say it was the best job in the world. Many of them, however, get stuck chasing the carrot and it ends up being a not so great career.

Airline crews went from 4 positions (PIC, SIC, engineer, navigator) down to 3 (PIC, SIC, engineer) down to 2 (PIC & SIC). The next logical step is a single pilot airliner, with auto-land capability and remote control from a ground station if the pilot is incapacitated. The technology isn’t there just yet, but they are very close. It’s already been implemented in light GA aircraft. And in a society that revolves around making $$$ for executives and investors, you better believe that every effort will be made to slash labor/training costs by using one pilot for Part 121 ops. The airlines (and their investors) stand to make a fortune utilizing single pilot aircraft.

I realize this is a lot of doom-and-gloom talk, but I feel it is very important to have realistic expectations. Unlike an industry such as healthcare (which will continue to expand rapidly with lots of jobs available in every state), the helicopter industry will continue contract. It will remain a very competitive market, which unfortunately translates to lower salaries, unfavorable work conditions, and a gypsy lifestyle... constantly moving to where the work is (or long distance commuting).

[TomPPL]

11 hours ago, Hand_Grenade_Pilot said:

Meanwhile, offshore support has decreased substantially over the last couple decades. In the earlier days of offshore oil, a massive number of platforms were in proximity to the coastline and serviced by a huge fleet of light helicopters. As it stands today, the shallow water regions are mostly tapped out and major oil companies have transitioned to deep water drilling. Which means fewer flights, fewer aircraft and using heavy airframes (S92, AW139) rather than numerous light aircraft (B206/407). Which ultimately means less jobs.

Tourism is facing ever growing noise abatement problems. It already hurt the market in NYC. Tours over the Hudson River were reduced substantially due to complaints from NYC residents. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawaii is hit next by extra restrictions. And even if tourism were to remain a strong market, very few pilots aspire to spend their career entertaining tourists...

Meanwhile, markets like aerial survey and ENG will be completely replaced by UAV’s. Drone technology is rapidly evolving, and will provide the same benefits for the fraction of the cost of a helicopter. I am also expecting police departments and US Customs / Border Patrol to transition heavily into drones. There will be some situations where helicopters are needed, but surveillance can be handled by drones.

I also believe the agriculture market will transition to either drones or unmanned helicopters. Pilots are expensive (and prone to making costly mistakes)... using a drone with highly reliable software would provide extremely high levels of precision and relatively low operating costs.

 

What a great post - thanks for taking the time to write it.

Whilst I'm nowhere near a commercial pilot, nor am I planning to be anytime soon, I do have extensive experience in the offshore oil and gas sector and drone surveys.

The above assessment in my opinion is about the most accurate description of the future state of the market. In addition, I see a further decline in offshore oil heli-ops due to the decreasing market for the product. The world is slowly but surely weaning itself away from oil - it's not all environmentally focused either, there are Geo-political reasons involved too (a greater subject best left for another day).

The agriculture side will indeed be pressed into using drones due to massive cost savings, speed of deployment and all round increased accuracy - the pace of drone development is very fast, with new developments being released on a regular basis.

It's a bit of a gloomy assessment but there's always opportunity with any type of change, the hard part is trying to identify it.

[SBuzzkill]

If you are able to, try and get a flight line job at the biggest FBO nearby.  Part time or full time, whatever you can make happen.  That exposure is going to be invaluable when you’re making decisions later in your career, and the networking can open doors for you early on.  

[helonorth]

There will be no single pilot airliners, ever.

On 12/29/2020 at 5:35 PM, Hand_Grenade_Pilot said:

I agree with what Spike said; the helicopter market overall is contracting. 

The three largest helicopter markets are HAA, offshore support and tourism. 

HAA has been expanding rapidly, but is now in serious jeopardy of additional government regulation. Charging patients $30,000 for a medevac flight, with almost no compensation from insurance companies, cannot continue unchecked. Once the government starts regulating pricing, the market will have to contract; fewer operators / bases/ jobs covering the same area.

Meanwhile, offshore support has decreased substantially over the last couple decades. In the earlier days of offshore oil, a massive number of platforms were in proximity to the coastline and serviced by a huge fleet of light helicopters. As it stands today, the shallow water regions are mostly tapped out and major oil companies have transitioned to deep water drilling. Which means fewer flights, fewer aircraft and using heavy airframes (S92, AW139) rather than numerous light aircraft (B206/407). Which ultimately means less jobs.

Tourism is facing ever growing noise abatement problems. It already hurt the market in NYC. Tours over the Hudson River were reduced substantially due to complaints from NYC residents. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawaii is hit next by extra restrictions. And even if tourism were to remain a strong market, very few pilots aspire to spend their career entertaining tourists...

Meanwhile, markets like aerial survey and ENG will be completely replaced by UAV’s. Drone technology is rapidly evolving, and will provide the same benefits for the fraction of the cost of a helicopter. I am also expecting police departments and US Customs / Border Patrol to transition heavily into drones. There will be some situations where helicopters are needed, but surveillance can be handled by drones.

I also believe the agriculture market will transition to either drones or unmanned helicopters. Pilots are expensive (and prone to making costly mistakes)... using a drone with highly reliable software would provide extremely high levels of precision and relatively low operating costs.

Any job market article from a flight school should go straight in the trash; the ‘Vietnam shortage’ has been mindlessly regurgitated for over a decade. Any Vietnam pilots retiring can be replaced by Iraq/Afghanistan veterans (or a seemingly endless number of civilian CFI/tour pilots).

The ‘airline shortage’ is a fallacy as well. There will be times of increased demand, but never a true shortage. Prior to Covid, we saw demand increase. But not enough to make regional airlines a desirable career. Rather than renegotiating labor contracts and offering desirable salaries, the airlines opted to keep salaries low and attract low hour pilots with one time training and new hire bonuses. None of the rotor transition pilots went to the regionals planning to make a career with them... they saw it as a pathway to a major airline or cargo. The plan was to take the training money, take a substantial pay cut and live frugally, until getting a cushy job with a major in a few years. Then they would be making more money than would ever be possible in the helicopter market.

I almost went for the carrot myself. Why bother flying heavy helicopters IFR when I could be doing a very similar type of flying for a major airline, making double the money? 

It only takes a short while on the airlinepilotcentral forums to see the problem with this. Many regional pilots will not make it to the majors. There are numerous stories of pilots with years of Part 121 experience, a college degree, clean record, etc being stuck at their regional. And then when a ‘black swan’ event like 9/11 or Covid occurs, the entire market gets devastated. Some get lucky and avoid the furloughs, airline bankruptcy, and career limbo; they earn a fortune over a glamorous career and can honestly say it was the best job in the world. Many of them, however, get stuck chasing the carrot and it ends up being a not so great career.

Airline crews went from 4 positions (PIC, SIC, engineer, navigator) down to 3 (PIC, SIC, engineer) down to 2 (PIC & SIC). The next logical step is a single pilot airliner, with auto-land capability and remote control from a ground station if the pilot is incapacitated. The technology isn’t there just yet, but they are very close. It’s already been implemented in light GA aircraft. And in a society that revolves around making $$$ for executives and investors, you better believe that every effort will be made to slash labor/training costs by using one pilot for Part 121 ops. The airlines (and their investors) stand to make a fortune utilizing single pilot aircraft.

I realize this is a lot of doom-and-gloom talk, but I feel it is very important to have realistic expectations. Unlike an industry such as healthcare (which will continue to expand rapidly with lots of jobs available in every state), the helicopter industry will continue contract. It will remain a very competitive market, which unfortunately translates to lower salaries, unfavorable work conditions, and a gypsy lifestyle... constantly moving to where the work is (or long distance commuting).

Most of this post is ill informed opinion and very little fact. There aren't any facts in it at all, really.

Edited January 1, 2021 by helonorth

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

9 hours ago, helonorth said:

There will be no single pilot airliners, ever.

Most of this post is ill informed opinion and very little fact. There aren't any facts in it at all, really.

Care to share your views on the subject? Single pilot airlines is debatable. 

As for the current state of the HAA, offshore and tour industries... it is very straight forward. Not sure what you disagree with there? 

[SBuzzkill]

Germanwings 9525

[psmarvalous]

On 12/29/2020 at 2:35 PM, Hand_Grenade_Pilot said:

I agree with what Spike said; the helicopter market overall is contracting. 

The three largest helicopter markets are HAA, offshore support and tourism. 

HAA has been expanding rapidly, but is now in serious jeopardy of additional government regulation. Charging patients $30,000 for a medevac flight, with almost no compensation from insurance companies, cannot continue unchecked. Once the government starts regulating pricing, the market will have to contract; fewer operators / bases/ jobs covering the same area.

Meanwhile, offshore support has decreased substantially over the last couple decades. In the earlier days of offshore oil, a massive number of platforms were in proximity to the coastline and serviced by a huge fleet of light helicopters. As it stands today, the shallow water regions are mostly tapped out and major oil companies have transitioned to deep water drilling. Which means fewer flights, fewer aircraft and using heavy airframes (S92, AW139) rather than numerous light aircraft (B206/407). Which ultimately means less jobs.

Tourism is facing ever growing noise abatement problems. It already hurt the market in NYC. Tours over the Hudson River were reduced substantially due to complaints from NYC residents. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawaii is hit next by extra restrictions. And even if tourism were to remain a strong market, very few pilots aspire to spend their career entertaining tourists...

Meanwhile, markets like aerial survey and ENG will be completely replaced by UAV’s. Drone technology is rapidly evolving, and will provide the same benefits for the fraction of the cost of a helicopter. I am also expecting police departments and US Customs / Border Patrol to transition heavily into drones. There will be some situations where helicopters are needed, but surveillance can be handled by drones.

I also believe the agriculture market will transition to either drones or unmanned helicopters. Pilots are expensive (and prone to making costly mistakes)... using a drone with highly reliable software would provide extremely high levels of precision and relatively low operating costs.

Any job market article from a flight school should go straight in the trash; the ‘Vietnam shortage’ has been mindlessly regurgitated for over a decade. Any Vietnam pilots retiring can be replaced by Iraq/Afghanistan veterans (or a seemingly endless number of civilian CFI/tour pilots).

The ‘airline shortage’ is a fallacy as well. There will be times of increased demand, but never a true shortage. Prior to Covid, we saw demand increase. But not enough to make regional airlines a desirable career. Rather than renegotiating labor contracts and offering desirable salaries, the airlines opted to keep salaries low and attract low hour pilots with one time training and new hire bonuses. None of the rotor transition pilots went to the regionals planning to make a career with them... they saw it as a pathway to a major airline or cargo. The plan was to take the training money, take a substantial pay cut and live frugally, until getting a cushy job with a major in a few years. Then they would be making more money than would ever be possible in the helicopter market.

I almost went for the carrot myself. Why bother flying heavy helicopters IFR when I could be doing a very similar type of flying for a major airline, making double the money? 

It only takes a short while on the airlinepilotcentral forums to see the problem with this. Many regional pilots will not make it to the majors. There are numerous stories of pilots with years of Part 121 experience, a college degree, clean record, etc being stuck at their regional. And then when a ‘black swan’ event like 9/11 or Covid occurs, the entire market gets devastated. Some get lucky and avoid the furloughs, airline bankruptcy, and career limbo; they earn a fortune over a glamorous career and can honestly say it was the best job in the world. Many of them, however, get stuck chasing the carrot and it ends up being a not so great career.

Airline crews went from 4 positions (PIC, SIC, engineer, navigator) down to 3 (PIC, SIC, engineer) down to 2 (PIC & SIC). The next logical step is a single pilot airliner, with auto-land capability and remote control from a ground station if the pilot is incapacitated. The technology isn’t there just yet, but they are very close. It’s already been implemented in light GA aircraft. And in a society that revolves around making $$$ for executives and investors, you better believe that every effort will be made to slash labor/training costs by using one pilot for Part 121 ops. The airlines (and their investors) stand to make a fortune utilizing single pilot aircraft.

I realize this is a lot of doom-and-gloom talk, but I feel it is very important to have realistic expectations. Unlike an industry such as healthcare (which will continue to expand rapidly with lots of jobs available in every state), the helicopter industry will continue contract. It will remain a very competitive market, which unfortunately translates to lower salaries, unfavorable work conditions, and a gypsy lifestyle... constantly moving to where the work is (or long distance commuting).

Thank you for your response.  Doom or glum, still good to know. 

[psmarvalous]

On 12/31/2020 at 6:57 PM, helonorth said:

There will be no single pilot airliners, ever.

Most of this post is ill informed opinion and very little fact. There aren't any facts in it at all, really.

I would like to hear your side of this discussion. 

[psmarvalous]

On 1/1/2021 at 12:30 PM, SBuzzkill said:

Germanwings 9525

Had to google this to get it (single pilot).