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Hey, everyone...good evening.

Havent found a room/board that deals primarily with discussions surrounding street to seat, specifically high school seniors.  My son graduates high school in May and has completed his WOFT packet in time to be submitted for this May’s WOFT board.  Anyone, parent or high school candidate, out there in the same situation?

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Here are my son’s stats for anyone that wishes to opine:

Street to Seat / High School to Flight School

AGE: 17

ASVAB GT: 110

SIFT: 53

OPAT: Heavy

EDUCATION: Graduates High School Next Month, 3.10 GPA

FLIGHT: 78.8 hours, 19.6 hours solo/PIC, Airplane Single Engine Land (ASEL) Private Pilot’s License

BOARD: May 2021

LORS: Aviation O-8, Aviation CW5, Aviation CW4, Aviation CW4, JROTC Instructor (Retired Artillery CW4), Michigan County Sheriff that has known my son and our family for 50 years

OTHER INFO: 120 hours of volunteer service between three separate civic organizations, 3 Years JROTC

PHYSICAL: Class 1A Physical, stamped

Any thoughts and/or informed opinions/assessment of his file?  Also, wondering how packets are compared against one another...do civilian street to seat applicants compete in the same “category” as the current/prior service candidates or do they compete among themselves for slots/quotas in their respective category of applicant?  Thanks, y’all!

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10 minutes ago, MXCrewChief4Life623 said:

Here are my son’s stats for anyone that wishes to opine:


Street to Seat / High School to Flight School

AGE: 18

ASVAB GT: 110

SIFT: 58

OPAT: Heavy

EDUCATION: High School Diploma, 3.10 GPA

FLIGHT: 80.2 hours, 15.2 hours solo, Fixed Wing Private Pilot’s License

BOARD: May 2021

LORS: 1) An Aviation Major General, 2) An aviation CW5, 3) An aviation CW4, 4) JROTC Instructor (Retired artillery CW4), 5) Another aviation CW4, and 6) A Sheriff that has known my son and our family for 50 years...he is also a former State Representative

OTHER INFO: 120 hours of volunteer service between three separate civic organizations

PHYSICAL: Class 1A Physical, stamped

Any thoughts and/or informed opinions/assessment of his file?  Also, wondering how packets are compared against one another...do civilian street to seat applicants compete in the same “category” as the current/prior service candidates or do they compete among themselves for slots/quotas in their respective category of applicant?  Thanks, y’all!

Sounds like he’s a great candidate. He will only compete against other civilians. If you search in this forum you’ll find some results posted. Typically it seems to be around 30%.

I have a couple youngsters in my group in flight training right now. They’re doing just fine. 

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Hopefully he makes it. One of the worst parts of flight school for me was hearing a friend ask another guy to buy him beer and he'd pay him back later. I gave him sh*t for being broke before the weekend and then found out he wasn't even 21 yet. Made me realize how much time I'd spent doing other stuff when I could've been a pilot already. 

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24 minutes ago, gravityrideseverything said:

Sounds like he’s a great candidate. He will only compete against other civilians. If you search in this forum you’ll find some results posted. Typically it seems to be around 30%.

I have a couple youngsters in my group in flight training right now. They’re doing just fine. 

Excellent...great to hear, brother.  Thank you!

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15 minutes ago, Thedude said:

Hopefully he makes it. One of the worst parts of flight school for me was hearing a friend ask another guy to buy him beer and he'd pay him back later. I gave him sh*t for being broke before the weekend and then found out he wasn't even 21 yet. Made me realize how much time I'd spent doing other stuff when I could've been a pilot already. 

Yeah, we hope so too.  Thanks.  And, yeah, the leaders that recommended him all warned him of the importance of staying away from the booze and off of social media...🤨🤨🤨

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MxCrewChief4Life623

As of today, seeing your son is younger than 21, he can finish his military pilot career in another military service (32yrs old) if he desires and chosen. That's 12 years down the road obviously. And he must have a 4 yr college degree in being selected.

The AF had a former flight Warrant flying the slot position in the AF Thunderbirds a few years ago.

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6 hours ago, zaurus said:

MxCrewChief4Life623

As of today, seeing your son is younger than 21, he can finish up his military pilot career in another military service (32yrs old) if he desires and chosen. That's 12 years down the road obviously. And he must have a college degree in being selected.

The AF had a former flight Warrant flying the slot position in the AF Thunderbirds a few years ago.

Lots of options for sure.  Time would tell.  One thing is for sure, he will be a professional pilot...a rotary wing pilot specifically, before he is 20.  Plan B, considering he has the misfortune of being a 2 X non-select, is in place...he has been accepted and enrolled in a university that offers an associate degree program in Aviation Technology and results in the receipt of all five helicopter ratings (Private pilot rating, instrument, commercial, CFI, CFII...all in just 17 months.  I am an active duty Army officer with 25 years of service...so thankfully, he (we) will not have to pay a dime for that degree and flight training...a degree and training that is going to total $141K.  ALWAYS have to have a plan B in place...but Plan A is what he has worked his tail off for the last two plus years since he stopped racing motocross all over the east coast.

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1 minute ago, zaurus said:

Depending how well he does in flight school and his desires, he can select flying fixed wing aircraft  for life.

Dad, which branch did you serve in the Army?

I was a combat engineer in the Marine Corps from ‘95 to ‘02 when I left the Marine Corps to take a direct commission in the Army as an MP officer...I transferred to MI and have been an MI officer since 2013 and am still serving on active duty.

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8 minutes ago, zaurus said:

Depending how well he does in flight school and his desires, he can select flying fixed wing aircraft  for life.

Dad, which branch did you serve in the Army?

Not sure what he would want as far as airframe goes down the road but he definitely prefers rotary.  But like I said before, time will tell.  His main focus in life is serving, leading and then flying...his essay and story is highly regarded by the leaders that have recommended him.  Praying it all goes the way he desires.

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Dad, here is my very old 2 cent recommendation for your son. I always think outside the box, it makes life more interesting.

Your son has a burning desire in being a military pilot and the Army is the quickest way of all the services. Well, let the Army make it happen a different way. 

Army aviation is the low hanging fruit in being a military aviator, don't be tempted. In reaching higher, the reward is sweeter in the AF. Just ask many Army aviators if that is the case in having a 4yr degree before serving.

As a young man, we don't think about the future in having a family and career options. As a former fixed wing pilot in any other service, this will create more wealth in the commercial airline industry. Wealth needed in putting your Grand kids in college. By the way, the AF has a 10:1 ratio of fixed wing to helos. The Army's ratio is 10:1 helos to fixed wing. Navy a 6:4 ratio fixed wing to helos. Marines 7:3 helos to fixed wing.

Let's see how we can put him in the pilot seat of any other service quicker with the help of the Army than finishing his 10yr Army ADSO after WOFT.

He firstly needs his college degree in meeting one of the AF requirements. That takes money of course.  Time for a LITTLE sacrifice. 

Enlist in the Army under a 3yr MOS contract in receiving the full Post 9/11 G.I.  Bill. Thousands of young adults enlist for this very reason. Your son's pay over those those 3+ years will be approximately $70k. He being single, he would be in a position in saving $30k while taking college classes before separating.

With his savings and the G.I. bill, he will be filling 2 squares.  College expenses will no longer be an issue and your Son became a college graduate on his OWN. That's what young ADULTS are suppose to do in NOT being a financial burden to ones Parents.

After Army separation, he can choose either AF ROTC, AF OTS after graduating or the Navy/ Marines. If he has a future desire in being a airline pilot, he will have that option available.

Recommend highly going AF Res or AF ANG. He will be available much sooner in flying for a Major airlines than finishing an active duty commitment. A difference of perhaps a $ million or more.

Airline pilot salary is based on the date of hire, seniority only. That determines your aircraft, duty location, crew position and future earnings.

By the way, helo only experience is not looked upon favorably in the major airline industry. It is, what it is.

More than likely being a smart Dad, you explained this option to your son.

Being young, you have so many choices in life.

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, zaurus said:

Army aviation is the low hanging fruit in being a military aviator, don't be tempted. In reaching higher, the reward is sweeter in the AF. Just ask any Army aviators if that is the case.

The only aircraft the Air Force has that tempts me is the A10. Sure quality of life and pay is better but if you want to fly and employ helicopters than the Army is the way to go. If you just want to be a pilot and don't care that you're flying a bus around then there are better options than the Army. A lot of us in the Army have absolutely no desire to go fly for the airlines or fixed wing at all. 

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Wow...just wow.  So many coherent, relevant and "make ya think" type comments, y'all.  I've been out of the net for over a day and coming back to multiple comments with the substance I see here is truly appreciated, not only by me, but by anyone that searches for this topic and eventually reads your comments.

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1 hour ago, Thedude said:

The only aircraft the Air Force has that tempts me is the A10. Sure quality of life and pay is better but if you want to fly and employ helicopters than the Army is the way to go. If you just want to be a pilot and don't care that you're flying a bus around then there are better options than the Army. A lot of us in the Army have absolutely no desire to go fly for the airlines or fixed wing at all. 

My son has over 80 hours and 15+ hours of solo time in a fixed wing aircraft.  He only has 3.5 hours in a rotary and quickly figured out and confirmed that flying a helicopter, as far as airframe goes in this overall pursuit of serving, and leading and flying for the Army is what he wants to do.  That said, time and circumstances will always continue to play an integral role in decisions that need to made at a given time.

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2 hours ago, zaurus said:

Dad, here is my very old 2 cent recommendation for your son. I always think outside the box, it makes life more interesting.

Your son has a burning desire in being a military pilot and the Army is the quickest way of all the services. Well, let the Army make it happen a different way. 

Army aviation is the low hanging fruit in being a military aviator, don't be tempted. In reaching higher, the reward is sweeter in the AF. Just ask most Army aviators if that is the case.

As a young man, we don't think about the future in having a family and career options. As a former fixed wing pilot in any other service, this will create more wealth in the commercial airline industry. Wealth needed in putting your Grand kids in college. By the way, the AF has a 10:1 ratio of fixed wing to helos. The Army's ratio is 10:1 helos to fixed wing. Navy a 6:4 ratio fixed wing to helos. Marines 7:3 helos to fixed wing.

Let's see how we can put him in the pilot seat as an AF pilot quicker with the help of the Army than finishing his 10yr Army ADSO after WOFT.

He firstly needs his college degree in meeting one of the AF requirements. That takes money of course.  Time for a LITTLE sacrifice. 

Enlist in the Army under a 3yr MOS contract in receiving the full Post 9/11 G.I.  bill. Thousands of young adults enlist for this very reason. Your son's pay over those those 3+ years will be approximately $70k. He being single, he would be in a position in saving $30k while taking college classes before separating.

With his savings and the G.I. bill, he will be filling 2 squares.  College expenses will no longer be an issue and your Son became a college graduate on his OWN. That's what young ADULTS are suppose to do in NOT being a financial burden to ones Parents.

After Army separation, he can choose either AF ROTC, AF OTS after graduating or the Navy/ Marines.

Recommend highly going AF Res or AF ANG. He will be available much sooner in flying for a Major airlines than finishing an active duty commitment. A difference of perhaps a $ million or more.

Of course it's based on having that option when he finishes his military obligation.

Airline pilot salary is based on the date of hire, seniority only. That determines your aircraft, duty location, crew position and future earnings.

By the way, helo experience is not looked upon favorably in the major airline industry. It is, what it is.

More than likely being a smart Dad, you explained this option to your son.

Being young, you have so many choices in life.

 

 

 

Wow, bro...this is absolutely a cogent argument!  The main point here for my son is that he has zero desire to fly fixed wing for the airlines.  If he is not serving and flying in a military helicopter he wants to be flying commercially in a helicopter.  However, if the WOFT selection goes against what is strongly believed to happen, he will attend the university and obtain an associate's degree AND all five helicopter ratings free of charge (my Post 9/11 GI Bill) in just 17 months, a $143K education and training...while simultaneously exploring the Marine Corps' PLC Flight option...my guess and my advice to him is to reapply to WOFT upon completion of his associate's degree and receipt of his helicopter ratings...several options, but again they involve rotary wing for the foreseeable future.  Your points and proposed plan is absolute money and it would be the way to go IF he had to foot the bill for education.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Required documents completed...meeting with the recruiter tomorrow to physically build the packet in its entirety, leaving only the results of the SIFT to add.  My son takes the SIFT in two days (Thursday).  Hoping all goes as well as we think it (he) will. 🤘🏻🤘🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

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On 3/28/2021 at 5:04 AM, zaurus said:

Airline pilot salary is based on the date of hire, seniority only. That determines your aircraft, duty location, crew position and future earnings.

By the way, helo experience is not looked upon favorably in the major airline industry. It is, what it is.

 


Seniority is important but so is timing.  There are guys way above me on the seniority list that have a worse quality of life because their timing sucks.

Also, I disagree about rotary experience and the airlines.  Military rotary is still a good thing to have on a resume, it just won’t hook you up with the “bros” like some of the other military options.

I have been incredibly satisfied with my snail’s pace career.  Enjoy the road you’re on.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, zaurus said:

You're waiting like an expectant new Dad. Your son comes from good stock, he'll be selected. 

 

Lol...for sure!  We/he worked very hard for the last two years leading up to this point...very strong packet in the opinion of several significant persons...thanks for the bode of confidence, brother/sister!

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