You misunderstand out there...

[kopterdoc]

Apparently you all think I am looking for work for free to back stab you!!!!! Well you are all wrong...

I am in the military, been there for fifteen years and I intend to stay to retirement. But before you get yourselves all twisted up, go ahead and look at the A&P adds on this website and tell me this... how many of those adds require or HIGHLY recommend experience on a particular type, design, series of aircraft?

Now, because I am NOT a civilian, I don't have the luxury of moving "where the money is" nor going outside of my area to gain experience that is REQUIRED or HIGHLY RECOMMENDED by about 95% of the employers on THIS website.    

So take it for what it is worth, I will gain experience however I can, if I have to volunteer at the airport vacuuming Lear 35's!!!! Then and only then will make myself marketable coming out of the military.

By the way, for you folks who wrote me who "work hard for a living"... at least you get to do it at home with your families.

You can lead ,follow, or get out of the way...

[Guest]

We've all been there. It's the catch 22 of the industry. I remember when I would have flown a turbine for free just to get the time; Now, I set my standards higher because I think I deserve more. Might be cocky but you can't live on free. Hard part is getting the experience like you said. I don't know the answer.

 

I think it will always be there (the new guys trying to break into the industry by working for less). Companies like this because it saves them money and allows them to train someone from the ground up at relatively low cost to them. I think the others posting were seeing what I see when I watch a low time guy beg for that first job: It looks like someone is willing to lower the overall pay scale. Reality is that all of us were at some time that low time/low experience person who was begging for a job. Once we get past that point we don't want anyone else to do the same thing because it takes away from what we accomplished.

 

We need to establish some sort of apprenticeship program or training that companies are willing to accept as good experience and companies need to be willing to pay trainees. I doubt this will happen.

 

Anyway, just realize that no one can stop you from doing what you need to do to get that experience. We were all there at one time. You'll just have people who see it as a threat.

 

What have your other military buddies done to break into the civilian sector? I would think that your turbine experience would put you ahead of a greenhorn fresh out of A&P school.

[RW-1]

While I will not work for free, as one of those up and coming  pilots working a full time day job, I can say that plenty of jobs offered out there that pay 35-37,000/yr pays more than what I make now, so for me, taking one of them is a step up in both pay, and taking on a full time flying position. I see any of us in that position doing what is necessary for us to move forward, not a stab in the back to anyone else.

 

I see too many slamming those offered positions to us low time pilots, but have yet seen any alternative offered by the higher time pilots or operators to the situation.

 

It has been suggested that once unionized, operators and the unions could work out an internship type program (or as VRA stated "apprenticeship program") for low time pilots, it would be beneficial to both groups, low time pilots could secure a position, and the operator get a pilot trained to company operating standards from the get go ...

 

Will it happen? Likely not, for at the moment operators don't seem to see ahead to the need for replacements for the current generation flying for them. When they do, then perhaps the $$$ might be spent towards that end, but for now they will just lower standards for the position, etc.

 

Until the industry as a whole addresses the situation we face both low and high time pilots, it likely will continue in the manner it has been. I don't know the answer either, however

(I hate this part, this is not a union/non union post) I believe it will have to involve all of us taking a position for what we believe we deserve, whether or not it is an organization or a actual union, is up to all of us. I'll leave it at that.

[Bassbone]

kopterdoc, no disrespect meant. Just seen alot of people trying to get something for nothing and it makes no sense to me. I hope something works out for you. The company I work for hires A&P's right out of school and puts them to work on our helicopters. BB

[RDRickster]

KopterDoc,

 

I spent 13 years wearing the same uniform you did, and hopefully I will live happily ever after in the corporate world.  A little advice... your skills, values, professional work ethic, motivation, and discipline are in high demand.  You'll have to figure out how to market yourself as you go from wearing a green jacket to corporate grey jacket world.

 

In our company, vets get hired over candidates with Master's degrees quite often.  Don't get me wrong, school is very important.  However, confidence without arrogance will carry you far.  You need to go to an employer with an attitude of, "If I was willing to take a bullet for Uncle Sam, Mr. Employer... what do you think I'm willing to do for you?"

 

Also, don't discount your non-technical skills.  Since you've obviously been in for a while, realize and take advantage of the fact that the Army has spent over six figures in training you to become a leader.  In the civilian world, it roughly equates to middle management (assuming you completed BNCOC or ANCOC).

 

On the technical side, all those certificates of training add up to one heck of an education that your civilian competitor's can only dream of.  So what if you don't have a great deal of experience on type.  Be honest, tell them what you've done to date and let them know that you aren't too ignorant to learn and learn quickly.  The benefits of your years of technical and management experience in one package is worth a lot.

 

R2