Possible New R22 Rival Trainer coming soon?

[mechanic]

I think Flingwing had a drawing of the Perfect Trainer some months back. Seems like it had a R44 body with Enstrom rotor head or something like that. Well, seems a Eurocopter Engineer has been developing an all composite 2 seat, with fenestron, and with a new generation low maint rotor head. The engineer has formed his own company now and is certifying his heli. Check this photo out.

 

 

 

 

Vertivision Link

Edited May 2, 2007 by mechanic

[UBERZONE]

those blades turn the wrong way

[KMWK]

those blades turn the wrong way

 

Very interesting. What would stop them from producing a version with the blades turning the opposite direction? Or, the "correct" direction for North America, however you want to look at it.

[carsick]

Interesting, what type of powerplant?

[flingwing206]

What would stop them from producing a version with the blades turning the opposite direction?

They'd have to redesign the transmission and T/R transmission. Better to let the blades turn as they do - after all the AS350 and EC120/130 are rapidly becoming the dominant "step-up" helicopters on the professional pilot track.

Edited December 29, 2005 by flingwing206

[KMWK]

Great point Fling...................I'd like to see it happen........

[mechanic]

Here is alittle about the engineer that designed the helicopter I found on the web.

 

Carsick, according to these record settings listed at the bottom here, it seems this heli has the O-360-J2A Lycoming.

 

This engineer very inventive and undertaking, deposited more than fourteen international patents in his sphere of activity, the helicopters.

 

The innovation which held the attention of the jury relates to a new concept of hub-rotor of helicopter adapted to the rotors of great performances with a number of blades higher than 3.

 

This innovation, whose idea goes back to 1986, consists in connecting the blades of the rotor by shock absorbers located between the blades, whereas before, the shock absorbers connected each blade to the hub.

It follows from there a simplification and a lightening of the hub, a reduction of loads on the shock absorbers and thus of their mass, a significant reduction of the Master couples rotor and thus of its trail, a simplification of maintenance and finally an improvement of reliability.

 

This new provision is assembled in series on the Dolphin High Speed, certified in 2000 and already sold to a hundred specimens (the record of the world speed for helicopter all categories since 1991), and the NH90 sold with more than 1000 specimens.

 

Today, in full agreement with Eurocopter, Bruno Guimbal left his former employer, to create his own company, in which it continues an activity rich in innovations having to lead in particular to the series production of a two-seater helicopter.

He received for this reason, one of the first prices of ' ' the Contest of Creation of Companies of Innovating Technologies '' of the Ministry for Research in 2000.

 

 

Age 44 years

 

Schools and years of promotion : Engineer Art-and-Trades

 

Company Eurocopter

 

 

 

 

 

Here is some records the helicopter has broken that the R22 held. They are listed on Rotorhub.com.

 

Click the red links.

FAI has ratified the following Class E (Rotorcraft) records :

================================================================

Claim number : 11842

Sub-class E-1a (Helicopters: take off weight less than 500 kg)

Group 1 : piston engine

General Category

Type of record : Altitude without payload

Course/location : Rouen (France)

Performance : 6 658 m

Pilot : Olivier GENSSE (France)

Helicopter : Cabri G2 (1 x Lycoming 0360-J2A, 145hp)

Date : 21.08.2005

Previous record : 5 937 m (04.03.1989 - Wayne H. MULGREW, USA)

================================================================

Claim number : 11843

Sub-class E-1a (Helicopters: take off weight less than 500 kg)

Group 1 : piston engine

General Category

Type of record : Time to climb to a height of 3 000 m

Course/location : Rouen (France)

Performance : 6 min 42 sec

Pilot : Olivier GENSSE (France)

Helicopter : Cabri G2 (1 x Lycoming 0360, 145hp)

Date : 21.08.2005

Previous record : 7 min 45 sec (29.05.1990 - Richard FENWICK, France)

================================================================

Claim number : 11844

Sub-class E-1a (Helicopters: take off weight less than 500 kg)

Group 1 : piston engine

General Category

Type of record : Time to climb to a height of 6 000 m

Course/location : Rouen (France)

Performance : 22 min 6 sec

Pilot : Olivier GENSSE (France)

Helicopter : Cabri G2 (1 x Lycoming 0360-J2A, 145hp)

Date : 21.08.2005

Previous record : new

===============================================================

FAI congratulates the pilot on his splendid achievements.

 

 

Rotorcraft World Records Homepage

Edited January 1, 2006 by mechanic

[mechanic]

If you look at the vertivision info you will see that they are using this design in UAV recon for the military.

Edited December 29, 2005 by mechanic

[AndrewT]

thats a really nice looking helicopter. Anyone wanna try to predict the price and operating costs?

[UBERZONE]

i was just making a joke. take it easy.

[aaron]

Beautiful machine. It'd be awesome if it costs the same as Robbies.

Edited December 31, 2005 by aaron

[500E]

Smooothe lines, awsome looks, Safe tail rotor with loads of TRA (presumably).

Shame there is no new motor that is up to date to go wth it.

Edited December 31, 2005 by 500E

[mechanic]

500E and Carsick,

 

I was hoping that Robinson would possibly offer a turbine version of the R22 in the future? Now, if the Capri 2 had a turbine with only a slightly higher DOC, I bet you would see a lot of schools switch ships. If anyone has not looked at the kit helicopter called the helicycle, check it out. It really seems like a good deal and is turbine powered. If you have not seen the helicycle fly you can go to their website and download the video's that were taken at Homer Bell's fly-Ins in years past. I have a friend, that has a friend, that owns a helicycle. I hope to see it and maybe try it out someday. With the turbine technology that we have today, you would think someone could or would build a small turbine that would be ideal for smaller helicopters. I realize that the cost to certify would probably be high. Anyway, we can dream can't we? LOL…

 

Safe Flights All

 

Edited January 4, 2006 by mechanic

[500E]

Way to go Mechanic Small turbine or a new piston design is required why is Lycoming still having problems with valves and oil use you would dump a car that used oil at the rate of a new Lyc.

This Site worth a read

 

http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Marvel/index.html

[Albin]

Way to go Mechanic Small turbine or a new piston design is required why is Lycoming still having problems with valves and oil use you would dump a car that used oil at the rate of a new Lyc.

This Site worth a read

 

Hi I'm new to this forum, so don't know if the Aerokopter AK1-3 Sanka helicopter has been discussed before.

It is a new Ukrainian desgined and built two-seat, with Subaru power. (That does not leak or burn much oil) I must mention I am the agent for it in South Africa. Very interesting little machine! Take a look at

 

http://www.aerokopter.co.za

Edited January 12, 2006 by Albin

[pepper]

yea, been working on that AK1-3.. getting it to the US.

[West Coaster]

Dunno if I'd want a fennestron in my trainer. If they say it still makes enough power to control torque then fine, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[mechanic]

West Coaster,

 

I don't know if this is the kind of proof you wanted to see, but here you go. I found this link on a link worldcrime posted. Thanks worldcrime. This Cabri still looks very interesting to me.

 

Cabri in flight

 

Regards, all

[Eric Hunt]

I had been browsing this thread with scepticism, mentally deriding this machine. Huh! Piddly little homebuilt, mumble mumble....

 

But follow that link above, and I see a very impressive aircraft with huge amounts of control power in the rotor head and in the fenestron. The engine didn't seem to have any trouble powering the performance, either.

 

Marvellous demonstration of a hugely capable helicopter.

[Bluetamon]

That video was great. I want one. If it's cheap enough, I hope we can kiss the widowmaker...'cough'...R22 goodbye. I think I saw it do a vertical dive at one point in the video. Very cool. The rotor head looks very stable and rigid. And the sound from the tail...gotta love that. Just like a Dauphin (sp).

[pepper]

it's not for sale in the US yet buy you may enjoy the video.. price is just to high right now.

 

the top left vid is the best..

http://www.copter.com.ua/EN/products_ak13_video.php

[Heli_Girl]

I dont have many flight hrs, but all my training has been in a little R22. And i dont really know the different specs on each heli but the Capri certainly looks like it's doing pretty good. And i love the fenestron design. I think it is also a very sexy lil heli, much better looking than the R22.

 

I would love to see them poping up around here, maybe take a test flight and see how good these little guys really are

[Ficl]

The price of the cabri is said to be around 240000 euros (plus tax), that means 300000 dollars.

 

That's the price of a R44, not a R22...

 

Nice ship, though!

[Goldy]

The price of the cabri is said to be around 240000 euros (plus tax), that means 300000 dollars.

 

That's the price of a R44, not a R22...

 

Nice ship, though!

 

Yes, good looking bird...but I would have to give up mast bumping, flight in winds over 25 knots, flying over 75KIA ( look up the NTSB reports), lets see, carb heat sensors in the wrong place, tail rotor ineffectiveness, no power, 240 lb seat limits, hmmm...guess I'll stick with the 22 !

 

 

As to the price...with the all composite rotors, perhaps the structural and rotor TBO would be greater so that the hourly maintenance costs are lower ?? Maybe I'm just being hopeful.

[Ficl]

with the all composite rotors, perhaps the structural and rotor TBO would be greater so that the hourly maintenance costs are lower ??

 

I think you're right and that is important for flight schools or operators flying a lot.

 

But they are aiming at private owners (the two first Cabri have been sold to individuals) who usually don't fly enough their two-seaters to be restricted by TBO. Will they pay for a 4000 hour or more TBO that they will never reach?

 

Hope they have choosen the right target!